humminbird
Well-known member
Yes, and if you read "Grail Bird", it HAS been used relatively recently to prove the existence of the bird to GAME WARDENS!
Mark
Bastrop, TX
Mark
Bastrop, TX
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Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KC Foggin
- Start date
Goatnose
Inspired by IBW
OK. We need more bird watchers. This is a big area to search and less time to search with these new developments. If I was not local I would try to make reservations at Wildlife Farms in Casscoe Arkansas. This Duckclub will put you right in the middle of the North Unit White River NWR. You will be just minutes away from the sighting area and you can bird watch from their property which is good Ivory Billed habitat. There is swallow-tailed kites south about 30 miles in Ethel Ar. Sorry I am not sure of the time of year the swallow-tales are here but that you can research. So please come. If Wildlife Farms is to expensive(and they are expensive)then there are other Duck Clubs and Motels. Back in May I was able to just float down the White River and hear Piliated activity on both sides of the river but come the hot days of June and July I have not heard that much activity. Have most of the Piliated left for the summer and the Ivory with them? The under story of the woods right now is thick. It is hard to focus binoculars through the under story to the crown of the woods much less my camera but I bet some of you guys can. I can take a few down the river in my boat to watch and listen and I can get others(others are Waterfowl guides with boat safety experience) with boats to help. I can also gaurantee Mississippi Kites showing off their acrobatic skills, my favorite. If I do get a photo of an IBWO this summer then I will offer it to Dr. Jerry in respect of his accomplishments. If you can not come this summer then come in the fall however the under story protects you from being seen as much as it protects the Ivory from being seen. This fall you will have to be more camouflaged.
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fangsheath
Well-known member
The pileateds are still there, but like the ivory-bills, they are quieter and harder to see in the summer. Sometimes it amazes me how quiet birds can be. I walked right by a couple of golden-fronteds the other day, resting quietly on a tree branch.
A nice article about an ivory-bill sighting at Cache River NWR last April can be found at the link below. The sighting was made by Juliana Simpson and Jerry Mulqueen in late April of this year. They apparently saw the bird clearly, both in flight and at rest, noting the bill and other field marks. They also heard "drumming" before the bird flew into view, but the article seems to have no specifics on that.
http://www.su.edu/temp_news.cfm?urlnum=542
A nice article about an ivory-bill sighting at Cache River NWR last April can be found at the link below. The sighting was made by Juliana Simpson and Jerry Mulqueen in late April of this year. They apparently saw the bird clearly, both in flight and at rest, noting the bill and other field marks. They also heard "drumming" before the bird flew into view, but the article seems to have no specifics on that.
http://www.su.edu/temp_news.cfm?urlnum=542
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
I'm confident that this will be resolved in favor of the Ivory-bill in the next couple of years. We all want better video and good still photographs. But it seems to me that the naysayers have raised the bar of confirmation to keep it out of reach. Previously, all post-1944 sightings were considered compromised because never more than one observer was present or the observers were considered to be unqualified. Now two excellent birders have seen the same bird at the same time and have identified it as an Ivory-bill, and incidentally they also captured a fuzzy video. The requirement of multiple observers has been met. Are we in the clear? No! Two simultaneous observers is suddenly declared insufficient; the video must also be excellent. Still photos would have been nice, but if they had been provided, somebody would be denouncing them as fake or too far away to rule out a leucistic Pileated or some other raising of the bar of proof. I am by nature a skeptic. UFOs, ghosts, alien visitations, ESP, astrology, angels, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, chupacabra, etc., are just so much hokum to me. But I think in this case reasonable evidence has been provided, and I think, in retrospect, some of the other sightings over the years are genuine, too.
I agree completely Curtis ....do you think that Ornithology Cornell would put their entire reputation on the line? No way you can mistake an Ivory-billed for a Pilieated... not at an ornithologist's birding level. There is a 3" difference in size and so much more white....The facial patern of the pileated is very different. Our video bird as no red and It's much to dark to be an albino Pileated IMHO. The birds around 100%...I'm hoping to take my kayak down next spring.
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
I concede this: minus the fuzzy video and cases of possible bark-peeling, all we have is testimony, not evidence. We have observations by expert birders where certain field marks were noted, indicating Ivory-bills. Except for the video, this thing rests almost entirely on the expertise and integrity of the observers. But in this post-shotgun era of North American ornithology, for most rare birds, most of the time, that's all we have, all we will ever have. If this were almost any other rarity, the video and, yes, the testimony would be considered more than adequate. However, these doubts will be addressed by real evidence, I'm sure.
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
I didn't see any. I can't seem to find a working link for the video. Can someone supply a good link?
humminbird
Well-known member
I have seen the video only on my office computer (still on dial up at home). I do not recall any red, but I was focussed on that unique flight and the size of the bird.
Mark
Bastrop, TX
Mark
Bastrop, TX
fangsheath
Well-known member
I cannot see any red on the bird in the video, but that is not conclusive since it is in flight moving directly away from the camera most of the time. In fact, upon seeing the video, Martjan Lammertink expressed the opinion that the bird was "probably a female." However, Luneau's brother-in-law, who we see in the video, did report seeing red on the head of the bird.
I don't mean to advertise, but since someone asked about this video, a DVD is now available (see www.ibwo.org). The video at the on-line resolution can still be seen here:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/1114103/DC1
I don't mean to advertise, but since someone asked about this video, a DVD is now available (see www.ibwo.org). The video at the on-line resolution can still be seen here:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/1114103/DC1
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
When I saw this video, I was unimpressed, but the bird was clearer in one of the enhanced versions. I do hope Jackson, Prum et al are looking at something better than this!
dacol
Well-known member
Recently in one of the IBWO threads here in Birdforum it was noted that two fisherman reported to Cornell having seen a pair of posssible IBWO's in the upper Waccamaw river in North Carolina in March 2005.
This motivated me to Google "Waccamaw+Ivory-billed" and one of the links that popped-up was the following:
http://windswept-iv.ca/messages/19990629.shtml
It is a web site where a couple travelling in their sailboat report their adventures, here is what Heather Rand wrote in June 1999:
"Up early the next morning, we caught a favourable current and traveled 76 miles to Barefoot Landing, Myrtle Beach. I thought I caught a glimse of the rare Ivory-billed Woodpecker in the forests on the edge of the Waccamaw River. Murray didn't see it in the binoculars, so it is not confirmed. But, the colour and size and everything was right, so I got very excited."
Evidently one can't be sure of what Mrs. Rand saw but I thought it interesting.
Dalcio
This motivated me to Google "Waccamaw+Ivory-billed" and one of the links that popped-up was the following:
http://windswept-iv.ca/messages/19990629.shtml
It is a web site where a couple travelling in their sailboat report their adventures, here is what Heather Rand wrote in June 1999:
"Up early the next morning, we caught a favourable current and traveled 76 miles to Barefoot Landing, Myrtle Beach. I thought I caught a glimse of the rare Ivory-billed Woodpecker in the forests on the edge of the Waccamaw River. Murray didn't see it in the binoculars, so it is not confirmed. But, the colour and size and everything was right, so I got very excited."
Evidently one can't be sure of what Mrs. Rand saw but I thought it interesting.
Dalcio
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fangsheath
Well-known member
At the risk of spreading rumors, it is my understanding that they are basing their analysis solely on the on-line video. They did not ask for the original materials but were offered high-resolution video anyway and declined. This information comes from here:
http://nuthatch.typepad.com/ba/2005/07/upcoming_paper_.html
I would point out that an abnormally patterned pileated would presumably be much easier to relocate than an ivory-bill. Intense surveys in the same area of the original sighting would almost certainly turn it up. Of course the authors of this paper may well believe that all of the supposed ivory-bill sightings in the area, including the ones this year, are misidentifications. But my understanding is that they are really focused on only one issue: What is the bird in the video?
http://nuthatch.typepad.com/ba/2005/07/upcoming_paper_.html
I would point out that an abnormally patterned pileated would presumably be much easier to relocate than an ivory-bill. Intense surveys in the same area of the original sighting would almost certainly turn it up. Of course the authors of this paper may well believe that all of the supposed ivory-bill sightings in the area, including the ones this year, are misidentifications. But my understanding is that they are really focused on only one issue: What is the bird in the video?
Snowy1
Well-known member
I can't see red in the video but recall reading one of the reports that said red was seen by one of the observers. Again, the flight of this bird seems to me the most conclusive evidence based on the video alone (if there had been no other sighting). It is such a large, "heavy" bird that only rapid wingbeats with no pause seem to hold it in the air. I just can't picture a Pileated flying this way. In frame-by-frame analysis, the bird has white in the right places but the video is frustratingly unclear. Can't wait until a good photo turns up - my guess is that photo won't come from the Cache.
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
fangsheath said:
If true, then this is irresponsible and inexcusable. If they're going to challenge the ID of the bird in the video, fine, but they should use the best obtainable enhanced copy and also the original, to satisfy themselves (or not!) that the enhancements do not add anything spurious. I'd think Cornell would be willing to let them view the original.
choupique1
Well-known member
I bet the photo is gonna come from south. louisiana......by jan....
humminbird
Well-known member
Well, having just completed reading the "Grail Bird", then rereading the news release, abstract and editorials that accompanied the big event, I must say I am confused. I read every account of an observation that Gallagher recorded with eager anticipation and did not see a mention of the word RED other than observers saying they do not recall any red. After seeing the video for the first time Martjan Lammertink is quoted as saying "it's an Ivory-billed Woodpecker (caps mine), probably a female."
Looking at Lunneau's tape, Gallagher writes "I could see what appeared to be a large bird with a black-crested head and a white bill peering out from behind a tupelo. A second later, a wing flared ..."
My question, why are we now reading that at least one Ivory-billed Woodpecker male remains alive?
Mark
Bastrop, TX
Looking at Lunneau's tape, Gallagher writes "I could see what appeared to be a large bird with a black-crested head and a white bill peering out from behind a tupelo. A second later, a wing flared ..."
My question, why are we now reading that at least one Ivory-billed Woodpecker male remains alive?
Mark
Bastrop, TX
fangsheath
Well-known member
Luneau's brother-in-law reported seeing red on the bird that was videotaped. Other sightings, including those of Sparling, LaBranche, and Driscoll include mention of red on the head. The problem is that if you don't see red you cannot necessarily conclude that the bird is a female. When I see a large woodpecker, I immediately focus on the wings, not the head. More often than not, the bird is in flight when seen, the crest is flattened, and if it is a male the red is hard to see. And of course the bird was often flying away from the observer in these sightings. Establishing that the bird is a female requires a pretty close, clear view, preferably when the bird is a rest. I don't think the CLO means to suggest that none of these sightings could be of a female, only that none of them are unambiguously of a female.
When reading this thread as well as other on-line discussions, I wonder if we are talking about religion here instead of science? Kind of like BELIEVERS versus those dastardly NONBELIEVERS, and if someone is of the opposing faith (and I choose that word quite deliberately), then it is time to go after them personally and question their motives.
Personally, based on reading various reports, I thought that there was maybe a 30% chance that Ivory-billed Woodpeckers were still out there, before the big announcement. What I have seen of the evidence presented, makes me currently think that there is a 90% chance they still exist. Because we don't have definitive proof, more like good evidence, but evidence that is still subject to interpretation. There is nothing wrong with asking for definitive, unambiguous proof before saying that the matter is solved, and I am very glad to read that some highly reputable people are doing so.
For instance, a high quality photo with multiple field marks plainly visible would be nice to see. Is that so much to ask for, when we are talking about scientific proof instead of belief? I very much hope to see such evidence before the leaves return next spring. If we don't despite the undoubtedly intense efforts that will be made this winter in Arkansas and other states, then my personal estimate of Ivory-billeds still existing will likely go down from 90%, to say 80% or so. After all, it isn't like people are looking for some silent four inch long brown bird hopping around in a remote part of the Brazilian rainforest...
Personally, based on reading various reports, I thought that there was maybe a 30% chance that Ivory-billed Woodpeckers were still out there, before the big announcement. What I have seen of the evidence presented, makes me currently think that there is a 90% chance they still exist. Because we don't have definitive proof, more like good evidence, but evidence that is still subject to interpretation. There is nothing wrong with asking for definitive, unambiguous proof before saying that the matter is solved, and I am very glad to read that some highly reputable people are doing so.
For instance, a high quality photo with multiple field marks plainly visible would be nice to see. Is that so much to ask for, when we are talking about scientific proof instead of belief? I very much hope to see such evidence before the leaves return next spring. If we don't despite the undoubtedly intense efforts that will be made this winter in Arkansas and other states, then my personal estimate of Ivory-billeds still existing will likely go down from 90%, to say 80% or so. After all, it isn't like people are looking for some silent four inch long brown bird hopping around in a remote part of the Brazilian rainforest...
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