Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Monday 3rd July 2017, 17:33   #26
etudiant
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 3,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binastro View Post

Also Zeiss 30x60 Maksutov spotter. Rather underpowered in my opinion, as it can take much higher magnification.
.
So very interesting!
I owned one, but was not blown away by the performance, so I sold it.
Maybe it was a lemon or just needed adjustment?
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 3rd July 2017, 18:07   #27
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
I have very good experience with compact draw tube telescopes when hiking and mountain walking.
Gijs van Ginkel
I have thought about a draw tube for walks. Looked at the Zeiss Dialyt Spotter (though it's not a draw tube), 18X-45X, 65 mm, bigger would probably be to heavy. But the reports on CA put me off a bit. The meoptas don't have ED glass either from what I understand?

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Monday 3rd July 2017 at 18:10.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 3rd July 2017, 21:21   #28
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,197
Vespobuteo, post 27,
The Meopta TGA 75 is a very nice draw tube telescope for a fair price (body 849 euro) and three interchangeable eyepieces: 30xWA, with or without range finding reticle and a 20-60x zoom eyepiece. I did not find information about ED glas, but CA was not disturbing for my eyes at least. Weight with zoom eyepiece is approx. 1500 gr. Length without eyepiece collapsed 25 cm. A test is on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 3rd July 2017, 22:37   #29
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
So very interesting!
I owned one, but was not blown away by the performance, so I sold it.
Maybe it was a lemon or just needed adjustment?
Hi,

the Zeiss 30x60 is a Gregory and not a Maksutov-Cassegrain - as can be seen by an upright image despite the absence of porro/roof prisms and also by the length of the body - too long for either SC or Mak...

And yes, when these are knocked out of collimation the image is not so great. Unfortunately I don't know if there are any user accessible collimation screws...

Joachim
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 4th July 2017, 00:00   #30
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Vespobuteo, post 27,
The Meopta TGA 75 is a very nice draw tube telescope for a fair price (body 849 euro) and three interchangeable eyepieces: 30xWA, with or without range finding reticle and a 20-60x zoom eyepiece. I did not find information about ED glas, but CA was not disturbing for my eyes at least. Weight with zoom eyepiece is approx. 1500 gr. Length without eyepiece collapsed 25 cm. A test is on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
Thanks, interesting, and the PDF was small enough for Google translate, :)
Perhaps the Zeiss might be ok concerning CA after all.
Price diff compared to Mepta is not that significant.
Down side with the Zeiss is that it's not that compact, weight is ok, but as it's not a draw-tube type, it will probably mean less dust inside etc. in the long run.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Tuesday 4th July 2017 at 09:34.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 4th July 2017, 04:59   #31
etudiant
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 3,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi,

the Zeiss 30x60 is a Gregory and not a Maksutov-Cassegrain - as can be seen by an upright image despite the absence of porro/roof prisms and also by the length of the body - too long for either SC or Mak...

And yes, when these are knocked out of collimation the image is not so great. Unfortunately I don't know if there are any user accessible collimation screws...

Joachim
Iirc, the problem was that the image was soft. I did not know any actual tests to try to diagnose possible maladjustments and did not try any fixes.
The instrument is rubber armored, with an electric focusing mechanism. If there are adjustment screws, they were hidden under the rubber. :(

Gregory is actually a handy design, nicely portable and lightweight. Wonder why it has not been more widely used for spotting scopes. Is there a robustness issue?
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 4th July 2017, 16:11   #32
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Iirc, the problem was that the image was soft. I did not know any actual tests to try to diagnose possible maladjustments and did not try any fixes.
The instrument is rubber armored, with an electric focusing mechanism. If there are adjustment screws, they were hidden under the rubber. :(

Gregory is actually a handy design, nicely portable and lightweight. Wonder why it has not been more widely used for spotting scopes. Is there a robustness issue?
Hi,

you could have done a star test and maybe taken pictures and then either done some reading (online or Harold R. Suiter: Star testing astronomical telescopes) to evaluate it or just asked for help in the reflector forum at cloudynights...

The main mirror in a reflector telescope is a quite heavy piece of glass which gets knocked out of position even easier than the usual prisms in refracting spotters - also there is the central obstruction from the secondary mirror which eats up a bit of effective aperture and also limits resolution even in a perfect instrument.

The usual problem of how to mount the secondary has been solved by Zeiss with an optical window in front of the tube - elegant but not cheap.

Joachim
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 4th July 2017, 19:17   #33
etudiant
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 3,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi,

you could have done a star test and maybe taken pictures and then either done some reading (online or Harold R. Suiter: Star testing astronomical telescopes) to evaluate it or just asked for help in the reflector forum at cloudynights...

The main mirror in a reflector telescope is a quite heavy piece of glass which gets knocked out of position even easier than the usual prisms in refracting spotters - also there is the central obstruction from the secondary mirror which eats up a bit of effective aperture and also limits resolution even in a perfect instrument.

The usual problem of how to mount the secondary has been solved by Zeiss with an optical window in front of the tube - elegant but not cheap.

Joachim
Sadly this was in the pre internet days, when Prodigy was the latest thing...
The user manual was pretty much all the help available other than going to the library and searching through the catalogs.
It is wonderful how much more accessible information has become thanks to the web.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 4th July 2017, 23:03   #34
Binastro
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.England
Posts: 3,286
My Zeiss 30x60 gives good star images.
But I don't have the electric drive, which was detachable.
The interesting thing about the drive is I think it ran on 4 batteries, but 3 would give half speed.

I would not try to access collimation screws.

Generally mirror scopes are compact, but most are not waterproof.

The military use them for long distance work.
I don't know if they ever use birdwatcher's spotting scopes.
Small refracting spotters are used for rifle target practice.

I am at home using any type of scope, but for long distance views the colour errors of refractors are nearly absent with the mirror scopes.
The resolution of a mirror scope is empirically found by deducting the secondary mirror diameter from the main mirror. I.e a 6 inch mirror scope with a 25% obstruction delivers the resolution of a very good 4.5 inch refractor.
Obstructions above 25% cause contrast reductions.

Planetary Newtonians, say 10 inch f/9 have obstructions as small as 1 inch across or slightly larger.
There are also unobstructed mirror scopes, but these are difficult to make well.

Mirror scopes usually take longer to temperature stabilise than refractors, although fast refractors seem to be worse than long focus refractors.
Binastro is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 5th July 2017, 06:38   #35
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Sadly this was in the pre internet days, when Prodigy was the latest thing...
I still remember the time when I installed NCSA Mosaic in the computing pool sometime in spring 1993... was hell of a compile job and when finished there was not a lot to see...
So I sent out an announcement and was off to usenet, which was started in 1979 and was what web forums are today. The equivalent of birdforum on usenet would have been uk.rec.birdwatching...

https://sbpoley.home.xs4all.nl/ukrb/index.html

And then there was gopherspace... the hot thing in the days and kind of a text based www - and of course thousands of mailing lists (working just like today) and ftp hosts.

Joachim

Last edited by jring : Wednesday 5th July 2017 at 06:45.
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 5th July 2017, 13:48   #36
upettersson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10
Update on my hunt for a scope

I've learnt more about spotting scopes, and optics in general, in the last week than I ever could have imagined.
Mostly thanks to all of you rugged birders with such a strong passion and knowledge about the tools.

I've decided to hold off until the Kowa 553 comes out and also come to the conclusion I really need to visit a good optics store where you can try them all out to really know what would fit me and my needs.

I've also come to realize how much more immersive, handy and useful a binocular really is. Maybe my first step should be to get a really good binocular instead. 8x42 Victory SF T*? (wallet already screaming).

A parallell to hiking and going out in nature struck me; the knife and the axe.
You always bring a good knife, have it on you at all times and it can be used for everything.
Even though the axe is such an awesome tool when you really need it, and can double as a knife in many cases, you're really hesitant to bring it with you because of the weight and size.

Thanks again for all replies and shared wisdom.
I'll update once my mind has settled and I've seen that little Kowa
upettersson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 5th July 2017, 14:45   #37
mayoayo
Registered User
 
mayoayo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: El Garraf
Posts: 2,124
Go with the hatchet..,!
mayoayo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 5th July 2017, 16:56   #38
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Hi,

ok, now we're taking a U-turn... so if you really want to upgrade bins, maybe make a thread in the bino forum...

Joachim
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 5th July 2017, 21:26   #39
upettersson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayoayo View Post
Go with the hatchet..,!
The Kowa 553 could be that Gränsfors small forest axe equivalent

Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
ok, now we're taking a U-turn...
It's not a U-turn, it's just a pitstop.
"Blinder Eifer schadet nur"
upettersson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th July 2017, 01:12   #40
upettersson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10
I just realized I had missed the big thread about the upcoming Kowa 553 scope and how it looks like it turns out not that great in the end. The Kowa was the thing I was postponing my decisions on.

I ranted about weight vs use in my last post, and how maybe I should upgrade my current Nikon 8x42 binoculars, but there's no replacing a good "hatchet" in the end. Optics is difficult if you aren't into it. It must take years to follow all the manufacturers, releases and specs. A real visual art.

I narrowed it down to the Opticron MM4 60ED+SDLv2 (15-45x) and ATS65HD+25-50xW.

Price and weight/size decided it for me and I just ordered the Opticron MM4 with a good set of head and tripod, for what I find, travel friendly use and weight.

Now I'll get to try it out just in time for my summer expedition; canoeing around Grövelsjön and climbing up Storvätteshågna for more than a week. As soon as I open my tent, no Lagopus muta, Vulpes lagopus, Bubo scandiacus, Strix nebulosa or Rangifer tarandus (among others) can escape me now :)

One thing I'm worried about is if I get a "lemon" and me being new to spotting scopes not being experienced enough to notice the flaws. I'd really appreciate some advice on easy tests to perform. I do have 20/20 vision, or atleast the military review told me, so I should be off to a good start :)

Last edited by upettersson : Sunday 9th July 2017 at 01:32.
upettersson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th July 2017, 02:27   #41
etudiant
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 3,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by upettersson View Post

One thing I'm worried about is if I get a "lemon" and me being new to spotting scopes not being experienced enough to notice the flaws. I'd really appreciate some advice on easy tests to perform. I do have 20/20 vision, or atleast the military review told me, so I should be off to a good start :)
This thread may be useful to start:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....ight=star+test

Check out the comments by henry link and surveyor, they offer practical advice for appraising optics.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 19th July 2017, 11:29   #42
upettersson
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10
Update

Been using the MM4 on several trips now and I love it!
I'm glad I went with the bigger 60mm and find 40x to be just about perfect.

A bit tricky getting used to the scope in the beginning, being left eye dominant and preferring having both eyes open, but the eyes adapted quickly.

I don't have much to compare to but I find the scope very sharp and bright as long as you keep it slightly under 45x.
Took some handheld pics with me phone through the scope.
Really need to get an adaptor, turn on higher resoultion and less windy days

Marsh harrier
Greylag geese
White-tailed eagle
100's of geese, grey herons, northern lapwings, arctic terns, black terns, ospreys, marsh harriers and those elusive peregrine falcons, white tailed eagles and great egrets

Last edited by upettersson : Wednesday 19th July 2017 at 11:31.
upettersson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 19th July 2017, 12:19   #43
coaltit
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: derby
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by upettersson View Post
Update

Been using the MM4 on several trips now and I love it!
I'm glad I went with the bigger 60mm and find 40x to be just about perfect.

A bit tricky getting used to the scope in the beginning, being left eye dominant and preferring having both eyes open, but the eyes adapted quickly.

I don't have much to compare to but I find the scope very sharp and bright as long as you keep it slightly under 45x.
Took some handheld pics with me phone through the scope.
Really need to get an adaptor, turn on higher resoultion and less windy days

Marsh harrier
Greylag geese
White-tailed eagle
100's of geese, grey herons, northern lapwings, arctic terns, black terns, ospreys, marsh harriers and those elusive peregrine falcons, white tailed eagles and great egrets
I,m pleased you found the 60mm and the 40x/45x Ideal
For portability I,ve found that combo suited me in the outdoors when near
Water and occasionally at other times with a pair of 8x30 bins alongside
for around 20 years when birdwatching etc, I have a 25x to which I rarely use with a Mirador Merlin spotting scope thou it has always had that look
of vulnerability about it linear I suppose and not being water proof (mostly because I have taken care of it) its been a faithful friend and a good workhorse for around £75 when I had it in march 1987 30 years ago has a
Birthday present from my father my first ever scope and only since for
That same value today you could,nt go wrong.
coaltit is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 20th July 2017, 00:37   #44
Egrets Ivadafew
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 128
Blog Entries: 2
I am 'left eyed' too upettersson so sympathise. Tried both eyes open, covering one eye, squinting etc etc. In the end I built myself a gadget that works wonders and has made scoping the pleasure it's supposed to be. Really need some sleep now but can post a picture and instructions tomorrow if you (or anyone else) is interested.
Egrets Ivadafew is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 21:25   #45
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Scopic View Post
text and link removed
SPAM?
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 21:31   #46
KC Foggin
Super Moderator
 
KC Foggin's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Myrtle Beach SC "Smiling Faces, Beautiful Places"
Posts: 220,263
Looks that way.
__________________
KC a/k/a common KC

Karma - What you send out
Comes right back at ya
KC Foggin is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 24th September 2017, 07:58   #47
jring
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Foggin View Post
Looks that way.
Thank you!

Joachim
jring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on ts-501 compact scope Gaz1969uk Kowa 2 Thursday 18th May 2017 21:43
First Post, First Scope ED82A - Some Thoughts karna5 Nikon 6 Monday 18th August 2008 05:34
Luxon 45 deg scope thoughts pls oldbaldman Spotting Scopes & tripod/heads 2 Sunday 21st January 2007 19:48
NIKON FIELD SCOPE II - 60mm ED - Thoughts Please? Des! The Birdforum Digiscoping Forum 3 Friday 15th September 2006 20:06
Thoughts sought on Scope + heat KC Foggin Spotting Scopes & tripod/heads 9 Tuesday 3rd June 2003 02:05

{googleads}
£100 Cashback on Opticron DBA VHD Binoculars. Click to find out more.

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20097899 seconds with 31 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:40.