Nikon 8x32SE question (1 Viewer)

While my wife was choosing a new pair of bins for her birthday I twice looked through the SE's among the choice she was offered and each time saw what has been posted in these forums as the blackout effect. She did too and ended up with Nikon 8X30E2's.
Following two trips to Cley marshes and the odd sneak look at home, (hard job prying them out of her hands) I decided that a new pair of bins was in order to replace my 30 year old Swifts.
Thought I might go for HG's as they were also in her line up and I liked them. So while looking at the HG's I was offered SE's to check out. Knowing the blackout experience I had on her viewing, I initially only picked them up to compare with the HG's, after all the reviews here have been very good................... No matter what I did I could not replicate the blackout effect!!! I was so impressed, even compared to roofs costing twice as much NO CONTEST I bought them.
A week later with them glued to my hands I still cannot induce any trace of blackout.
The question is, has anyone else observed this? The shop only had the one pair so I could not check.

Don Hoey said:

While my wife was choosing a new pair of bins for her birthday I twice looked through the SE's among the choice she was offered and each time saw what has been posted in these forums as the blackout effect. She did too and ended up with Nikon 8X30E2's.
Following two trips to Cley marshes and the odd sneak look at home, (hard job prying them out of her hands) I decided that a new pair of bins was in order to replace my 30 year old Swifts.
Thought I might go for HG's as they were also in her line up and I liked them. So while looking at the HG's I was offered SE's to check out. Knowing the blackout experience I had on her viewing, I initially only picked them up to compare with the HG's, after all the reviews here have been very good................... No matter what I did I could not replicate the blackout effect!!! I was so impressed, even compared to roofs costing twice as much NO CONTEST I bought them.
A week later with them glued to my hands I still cannot induce any trace of blackout.
The question is, has anyone else observed this? The shop only had the one pair so I could not check.

Click to expand...

I can't induce black out with my SE.

Carlos

Don Hoey said:

While my wife was choosing a new pair of bins for her birthday I twice looked through the SE's among the choice she was offered and each time saw what has been posted in these forums as the blackout effect. She did too and ended up with Nikon 8X30E2's.
Following two trips to Cley marshes and the odd sneak look at home, (hard job prying them out of her hands) I decided that a new pair of bins was in order to replace my 30 year old Swifts.
Thought I might go for HG's as they were also in her line up and I liked them. So while looking at the HG's I was offered SE's to check out. Knowing the blackout experience I had on her viewing, I initially only picked them up to compare with the HG's, after all the reviews here have been very good................... No matter what I did I could not replicate the blackout effect!!! I was so impressed, even compared to roofs costing twice as much NO CONTEST I bought them.
A week later with them glued to my hands I still cannot induce any trace of blackout.
The question is, has anyone else observed this? The shop only had the one pair so I could not check.

Click to expand...

Don,

The first time I picked up an SE 8X32 I saw the blackout and said "not for me". I purchased a pair for my wife and found that, if I sacrificed a tiny bit of the FOV, I could completely eliminate blackouts. I bought a second pair for myself and everytime I use them I'm still amazed by their magic.

John

It might be that you had the wrong intra-ocular distance when you first tried them. I don't think that Nikon have made any chances to the optical formula, though Japanese manufacturers are renowned for making small improvements to products even after release.

I have never experienced black-outs with my 8x32 SE, though the small 4mm exit pupils are not so easy as 5mm ones. However, I don't discount the reports of other users who do experience black outs. I suspect that it is a minority of users (or rather of those who have tested them) though only a survey would find the truth of that statement. It could also be that some peoples faces are such as to induce black outs i.e. the shape of the eye sockets in relation to the eyes.

Leif

I had a pair of 8x32 SE's and suffered from the black-out issue constantly so eventually sold them despite the brilliant optics. The problem for me is that I need to keep my glasses on and try as I might I couldn't get the rubber eye-cups to fold down to give exactly the right eye-relief for my eyes/glasses. To replace them I bought the Nikon 8x32 HG and I'm delighted with them - excellent optically and easy to set the right eye-relief due to the adjustable twist-up eye-cups. Surely Nikon should get round to installing twist-up eye-cups on the SE's ?

solentbirder said:

Surely Nikon should get round to installing twist-up eye-cups on the SE's ?

Click to expand...

I wish they would, but I suspect that Nikon are not willing to pay the tooling up costs for something that probably does not sell in shed loads. Leif

Yo all, recently purchased a pair of 8 x 42 HGL's, wear specs and suffer from blackout with eye cups pushed fully home, this instantley cured by twisting cup just slight off bottom position. Problem was it kept moving back as there is no click stop at this position, so cured it by fitting a rubber O-Ring below cup for it to bottom on.

Suffer blackout problem with my Leica telescope using 20-60 zoom eyepiece at its lowest mag but again slight adjustment of the eye cup cures it.

Stewart

Leif said:

I wish they would, but I suspect that Nikon are not willing to pay the tooling up costs for something that probably does not sell in shed loads. Leif

Click to expand...

Something as simple and cheap as an alternative rubber eyecup that folds down to a lip about 2 or 3mm farther out from the back of the eyepiece would probably fix the problem for most people who experience it. Even the supplied eyecup can be carefully folded to produce a little deeper lip.

Today I have by accident answered my question on SE blackout.
2 hours of birding at Titchwell on the north Norfolk coast and then it happened a blackout.
On investigation it was all down to how I put the bins to my eye. I set out in hazy conditions likely to turn to bright sunshine so wore a baseball cap, until I faced into bright sunshine I had worn the cap high on my head but in bright sunshine I had pulled the brim down in order to see more comfortably. When I put the bins up to my eye it was straight on and too deeply set to get past the brim. I normally rest the top of the eyecup on my brow as I had been doing so until then.
Back home and a bit of checking out and I think its all about eye relief. Knowledgable bins guys may know better but here goes........

My old bins that I replaced with the SE's are Swift 8x40 Wide Angle model 779 at least 25 years old. Very short eye relief - cannot use glasses with these - eyecup depth is 5mm. Without glasses on you can view at any angle or jamb them into your eye socket with no sign of optical blackout.

My wife has Nikon 8x20 E2's with an eye relief of 13.8mm and eyecup depth of 8mm. I can achieve a partial blackout only if put to the eye straight on and pressed into the eye tightly enough to be uncomfortable.

My Nikon 8x32SE has an eye relief of 17.4mm and an eyecup depth of 11.66mm. Blackout can be achieved without glasses by putting the bins to the eye straight on with the bottom part of the eyecup touching or nearly touching the skin below the eye. I found that if the bins are held as I normally do with the top rim of the eyecup against my brow and the bottom of the eyecup, (my wife just measured it) 12mm away from the skin below the eye I cannot induce blackout.

Users and prospective users of SEs will find that without glasses holding the top rim against the brow naturaly means the bottom will naturally fall at the correct point. There is no need to worry about acheiving 12mm.

Blackout therefore appears to happen if the bins are viewed at less than eye relief. I have just checked this with my scope Nikon 82ED and 30 wide eyepiece with turn and slide eyecups. No glasses and eyecup extended unable to induce blackout, you are naturaly guided for eye placement by the cup. Eyecup screwed down, therefore viewing inside the eye relief, partial blackout can be achieved if the eye is placed off centre.

I agree with others that have posted in respect of Nikon fitting turn and slide eyecups but perhaps only a market as large as the U.S.A. demanding this, could bring this about.

I hope readers of this post will find this helpful if they are users or potential users of SEs.

My thoughts on Nikon 8x32SE .......... absolutly the best bins you can buy if clarity and brightness of image is your top priority. Would not be without them now I have worked this out. As I don't birdwatch underwater I don't need waterproof bins, if it rains I just tuck them inside my jacket. The cash saving over roofs allowed me to buy my 2 wide angles for the scope.

My thoughts on Nikon 8x30E2 ......... second only to the SE's

Comments on any of the above welcome

[/QUOTE]
My thoughts on Nikon 8x32SE .......... absolutly the best bins you can buy if clarity and brightness of image is your top priority. Would not be without them now I have worked this out. As I don't birdwatch underwater I don't need waterproof bins, if it rains I just tuck them inside my jacket. The cash saving over roofs allowed me to buy my 2 wide angles for the scope.

My thoughts on Nikon 8x30E2 ......... second only to the SE's

Comments on any of the above welcome[/QUOTE]


Same goes for 10x35 EII and 10x42 SE (i prefer the EII for the wide angle). Boy, i am glad i am not the only one thinking this way. You know, when an entire village tells you that you are crazy...A few months ago I actually went to the store with the credit card in my wallet, checked the top roof binos, and ended up not buying anything and going home happy that i already have my Nikon EII and Celestron ED. I may not be crazy after all...

Hi Otto
You will be pleased to know that my wife disagrees with my ranking and puts the EII in front of the SE for the extra wide angle and less possibility of blackout.
When buying hers she checked out a shed load including top end roof bins and says no contest!!

Don

Don et al,

A contributor to this forum Kimmo Kabsetz, of Alula magazine, also thinks highly of the 8x30 E2. As an unhappy owner of an 8x32 SE, I have wanted to look at the E2, but my usual New York vendors do not seem to have one available, when I visit their shops. It was also unavailable from a Chicago vendor. I hope to try one soon.
In the meantime, I use either roof prisms or rather old Porro binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

Otto McDiesel said:

... Same goes for 10x35 EII and 10x42 SE (i prefer the EII for the wide angle). Boy, i am glad i am not the only one thinking this way. You know, when an entire village tells you that you are crazy...A few months ago I actually went to the store with the credit card in my wallet, checked the top roof binos, and ended up not buying anything and going home happy that i already have my Nikon EII and Celestron ED. I may not be crazy after all...

Click to expand...

:hi:
Could someone please comment about the 10x35 EII vs. the 10x35 E based on personal experience? Please don't refer me to Steve Ingraham's BVD article because it is very confusing and doesn't really address that issue. I'm interested to know if the E has equivalent optical qualities as the EII, with perhaps a difference in construction/cosmetics. If not, what? Nowadays both are hard to find. A related question is how the E compares with the SE — which, based on Steve's statements, simply can't be equalled anywhere in the known universe (or words to that effect). You've probably guessed that I own a 10x35E.

Thanks,
Elkcub

elkcub said:

:hi:
Could someone please comment about the 10x35 EII vs. the 10x35 E based on personal experience? Please don't refer me to Steve Ingraham's BVD article because it is very confusing and doesn't really address that issue. I'm interested to know if the E has equivalent optical qualities as the EII, with perhaps a difference in construction/cosmetics. If not, what? Nowadays both are hard to find. A related question is how the E compares with the SE — which, based on Steve's statements, simply can't be equalled anywhere in the known universe (or words to that effect). You've probably guessed that I own a 10x35E.

Thanks,
Elkcub

Click to expand...

I'm afraid I don't have both in the same magnification but do have a 8x30 EII and a 10x42SE. Based upon general ergonomics and view I can't really see much of a difference between the two both give good views. I think the great advantage of the EII's is the amazingly wide field of view which I find to be much easier to view and gives a more pleasant field. At the 10X the SE has 314ft at 1000yds whilst the EII has 366ft; at 8x its even more pronounced with the EII at 461ft whilst the SE has 393ft.
I think i prefer having the wide field of view.

Dave

elk,

I recently compared an 8X30 E and an 8X30 EII. Like you I suspected that only the bodies had been changed, not the optics. This was in a store and I didn't have time for any real qualitative judgements, but I could see by comparing the pattern of reflections returning from the eyepiece elements and the objectives that the optics of the EII are a bit different from the old E. In addition, if your old 10X35 E doesn't have the green multi-coatings then the 10X35 EII will be much brighter. BTW, the dealer told me that the EII's are soon to be discontinued.

Henry

elk,

About 12 years ago i had the chance to look through a 10x35 E. The wow factor was so great, that i still remember those binoculars and what i saw through them (some redshanks and curlew sandpipers in breeding plumage). Tells you a lot...

henry link said:

elk,

BTW, the dealer told me that the EII's are soon to be discontinued.

Henry

Click to expand...

Henry,

This may explain its absence from store shelves in New York and in Chicago.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

Thanks all,

Your comments really help. My 10x35 E is currently being realigned by Nikon and when is comes back I'll be able to confirm that it does have green coatings — which I recall. I've also asked Nikon to fix the short focus, which should be 10-14 ft. according to my catalogs, but on mine is closer to 21 ft.

Elkcub

Pinewood said:

Henry,

This may explain its absence from store shelves in New York and in Chicago.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

Click to expand...

Arthur,

The Nikon model number for the E2 is 7410 and the Google search "Nikon 7410" results in several hits. B&H in NY city has them in stock.

Best of luck to you.

John

Hello,

My tax refund came and I have ordered an 8x30 E2, from a well known binocular vendor, who had it, in stock. I now have quite a collection of obsolescent binoculars.
I may be able to compare the E2 with the SE and my "reference standard" for this category. I hope to share my findings.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood