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Old Sunday 6th August 2017, 14:51   #1
Chosun Juan
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Thumbs up Nikon D850

The successor to the D810 has been named ....... the D850

Lighter, faster, better ...... 46.5MP, 10fps, "a baby D5"

It looks like being a FF version of the D500, the only major difference apart from FF ISO goodliness seems to be 4K video at 1.0x ...... as opposed to the D500's 2.25x crop.

AF system from the D5, SD (UHS-II) & XQD memory card slots, tiltable LCD screen with twice the screen resolution of the D810, back illuminated buttons

https://www.nikonrumors.co/nikon-d85...baby-nikon-d5/
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...ions.aspx/amp/

Official debut should be very soon .... more grist for the mill!


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Old Sunday 6th August 2017, 16:56   #2
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The pixel race goes on, so do prices, this "baby" won't be cheap.
Hope they cut down the weigh a bit, close to 1 kg (D810) is too much for a camera without a vertical grip.
For action/birds I would rather get the D5 or D500 or X-T2.

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Old Sunday 6th August 2017, 17:16   #3
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Arrow

Vespo, Rumoured price is ~3500 USD, a bit of a step up from the D810. In a few short years when 8K displays start to lob, even 46.5 MP is going to look thoroughly pedestrian - we'll be in the 100's ......

The D5 is a serious lump, but this new D850 (<900grams?) could be quite the nice bit of kit ...... it's got my interest!



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Old Friday 11th August 2017, 17:31   #4
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Question

Anyone read Chinese?!? ..... seriously need a translation here!

Looks like all the rumoured goodies:- ?
64 -25600 ISO .... expandable to 32-108400
4K Video, 8K time lapse
7-9fps (10?)
153pt AF
180000 RGB

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...rt-1.aspx/amp/
https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/11/n...s-part-2.aspx/



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Old Friday 11th August 2017, 18:02   #5
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Looks like focus stacking with up to 300 images, that will take some PC power
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 02:12   #6
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Chinese/ Japanese - it all sounds like double Dutch to me!

Translations are starting to come in: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...ides.aspx/amp/

Mike, it does indeed look like stacking of up to 300 images - I'm definitely going to need a new computer (needed one anyway :)

Buffer seems to be 51 shots of 14-bit RAW (but I'm not sure if that is in general, or just in silent electronic shutter and crop mode?)

45.75MP

-4EV for the Centre point, -3 for the rest

Top speed of 9fps using the battery grip and new battery, and it seems like 7,6, or 5 normally, depending on mode ....


Sounds like a cracker bit of gear! I wonder what the weight is when the battery grip and new battery is included?


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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 09:50   #7
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Exclamation Official announcement due August 16th .... in 4,3,2,1 !

Specification Summary (directly as posted from Nikon Rumors):

* 45.75MP full frame CMOS sensor
* New and improved version of SnapBridge
* No built-in GPS
* Tiltable LCD (3.2", 2.36 million dots)
* Fully functional touchscreen: supports touch AF, touch shutter and touch menu
* Memory card slots: one SD and one XQD
* AF system from the D5 (153 points, 130% frame coverage compared to the D810, all AF points @ -3EV, middle/center crosshair sensor @-4EV)
* New smaller AF point
* No built-in flash
* Back illuminated buttons
* Joystick selector
* Built-in Bluetooth and Wi-Fi
* 8K time-lapse video capabilities
* 4k UHD video in FX format (with no crop)
* No EVF or hybrid viewfinder
* Slo-mo full HD 120fps video
* The SD slot will support UHS-II
* Improved LiveView split-screen display
* Improved silent shooting mode: fully-silent, no-sound electronic shutter in live view (no mechanical movement, can shoot up to 30fps @ 8MP with the electronic shutter)
* Improved battery life
* Lighter than the D810
* Native ISO range: 64-25,600
* ISO 64 extendable down to ISO 32 (Lo1 = 32, Hi 2 = 108,400)
* 7fps without grip, 9fps with grip (MB-D18a battery grip)
* 51 images raw buffer at 14-bit RAW
* 0.75x optical viewfinder (largest ever on a Nikon FX cameras)
* 180k RGB meter
* No AA filter
* Supports for Nikon wireless trigger WT-7
* Fully-silent, no-sound electronic shutter in live view (6 fps silent shooting)
* Built-in focus stacking: up to 300 pictures with up to 10 levels of focusing steps (still need external software)
* Price will be CNY 23,999 or around $3,600 (source: Chinese forum)
* Announcement date could be August 16th
* RAW sizes: small, medium, large
* New 1:1 mode
* New natural light AWB


Read more: https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/12/n...#ixzz4pWjyQhPL


Tantalizingly close to the 10fps with the accessory battery grip (adding approx ~400 grams with 8x AA Lithium batteries to the ~850 gram bare weight - making about 1.25kg all up)



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Last edited by Chosun Juan : Saturday 12th August 2017 at 10:10. Reason: Source credit
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Old Tuesday 15th August 2017, 07:16   #8
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I thought the D500 was the "Baby D5"? How many babies are they gonna have? I don't know if I need 45mp. It will mean I need a new mac. I'm sure it will be beauty and someone out there will stun us with the results. One frame less per second than the D500. It might have been the winning shot.
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Old Tuesday 15th August 2017, 13:05   #9
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Cool

Don't say that! I won't be able to sleep at night worrying what that extra 1 frame per second may have revealed!!

It's still going to lack a little in Video features (Canon's dual pixel set up, or the Panny's 60fps, etc), and no focus peaking, or live histogram in the viewfinder (but whose got those yet anyway in the OVF world?!) ...... but it ticks a hell of a lot of boxes

If the DR is up to snuff then it's probably going to be THE camera of the moment (unless one wants 20fps - and let's face it, who doesn't! :)

I'm figuring if I upgrade to the D850 then I can pretty much shoot in DX mode at a bit over 20MP @9fps with the 51 shot buffer and some rapido XQD cards giving about 6 seconds (plus?) continuous shooting ...... all with the better ISO performance and signal to noise ratio of the FF

Ok, I lose the 1.3x in camera crop that I love, but that may not be such an issue if I switch to fixed length primes anyway, and besides - I will gain a whole hi res landscape camera! Pretty much 1 do it all body

I hope to get to handle one in a few months ..... it will be interesting .....


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Old Tuesday 15th August 2017, 15:32   #10
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
I'm figuring if I upgrade to the D850 then I can pretty much shoot in DX mode at a bit over 20MP @9fps with the 51 shot buffer and some rapido XQD cards giving about 6 seconds (plus?) continuous shooting ...... all with the better ISO performance and signal to noise ratio of the FF

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No, ISO and noise will be same as on DX in DX-mode of course...

Unless shooting landscape or studio shots, a D500 will be a better choice for DX-shooting (strange sentence).

But the D850 definitely will be the most expensive DX-camera..when shot in DX...

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Old Tuesday 15th August 2017, 19:40   #11
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
No, ISO and noise will be same as on DX in DX-mode of course...

Unless shooting landscape or studio shots, a D500 will be a better choice for DX-shooting (strange sentence).

But the D850 definitely will be the most expensive DX-camera..when shot in DX...
Vespo, could you explain this further please? (are you thinking [guessing - we don't really know the sensor design and technology specifics yet] that because the sensor will essentially be equivalent to a scaled up D500 sensor, that pixel pitch and density, and DR will be roughly the same?)

Which camera is the current DR king? and will the D850 be better than the D810?

Also, what are people with the D810A (Astrophotography) model going to do? Are there aftermarket filters that could be fitted to the D850 to do essentially the same thing without sacrificing a whole bunch of light?

There's always the shallower depth of field advantages to justify all that extra cost and weight

Just out of interest - is there another as good or better, hi - res full frame camera you could recommend that could be purchased along with a D500 say, and have both combined still come in under the say $4000 US (with essential battery grip accessory) of the new D850??



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Old Tuesday 15th August 2017, 21:16   #12
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Vespo, could you explain this further please? (are you thinking [guessing - we don't really know the sensor design and technology specifics yet] that because the sensor will essentially be equivalent to a scaled up D500 sensor, that pixel pitch and density, and DR will be roughly the same?)

Which camera is the current DR king? and will the D850 be better than the D810?

Also, what are people with the D810A (Astrophotography) model going to do? Are there aftermarket filters that could be fitted to the D850 to do essentially the same thing without sacrificing a whole bunch of light?

There's always the shallower depth of field advantages to justify all that extra cost and weight

Just out of interest - is there another as good or better, hi - res full frame camera you could recommend that could be purchased along with a D500 say, and have both combined still come in under the say $4000 US (with essential battery grip accessory) of the new D850??



Chosun
What really makes the difference for noise is the sensor area used (when about equal sensor tech). The contradiction is that larger pixels are better in low light but smaller pixels when it comes to DR (at low ISO). So it's hard to get both* if you don't have small and large pixels (like in the old Fujifilm S5). DR is still more than enough in all the pro Nikon cameras IMO. My experience is that at least 10 stops DR is what I usually need and will decide the max ISO I will tend to use on a camera.
D500 have 10 stops DR at ISO3200, the D5 reaches ISO6400 and the D810 is more like ISO1600+ at 10 stops DR. My old D300s had OK DR at ISO400, but not above, so the replacement D500 is 2 stops better in that regard, which is significant and pretty amazing.

Significant improvements in the sensor tech is not to be expected in the D850.
10 MP extra is not that much in resolution either.

Also remember that effective resolution for many (or perhaps most) lenses will still be below 46 MP with a margin. With some very good lenses you might get slightly more effective resolution than with the D810. But you will also need perfect conditions and technique. 46MP will mostly mean a lot of redundant fuzzy pixels...personally I'm fine with 16-20MP, when they are sharp, It's enough for the most critical publication format, a full magazine spread (A3).

Shallow DOF/bokeh is definitely a good reason for a FF camera, and also low light/high ISO performance. But how many really need 46MP?
And the lenses are big and heavy on FF. Never been a big fan of DX but with the D500 it seems that it's more than capable for most use-cases. But it's hard to get everything in one camera. A baby D5 sounds very good (better AF, FPS etc) but the extra pixels I could have done without.

*Check out Measurements -> Dynamic range here:
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp..._1062_1061_963

The fact that D810 get a high score in "sports/low-light ISO" is because scaling down 36MP to for example 20MP is equal to noise reduction. Noise per pixel is higher in the D810 than in the D5 at higher ISO.

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Old Wednesday 16th August 2017, 15:45   #13
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Unhappy

Uh-Oh !! ...... major spanner in the works

It seems my 12-28 landscape lens is DX and not FX like I had thought ...... To D850 or not to D850? ...... that is the question! ? ..... either way it's going to be significant expense

Ironically, having no time at the moment means that I do have time to consider all the options and wait for all the testing to be done ......

Vespo, the D850 has been described as an 'evolution' and a very nice one overall. It will be interesting to see what the sensor tech actuall brings, and the colour improvements mentioned, and what this all tests out at ......

If the argument is compelling, I'll get that shallow dof but also a much lighter wallet!

I have an inkling it's all just marking time for me anyway until Canon unveils the 1DX III and 600 f4 DO ...... at the rate Nikon is going on top lenses, it could be another 100 years before they match it!

I wonder if that will be the last real DSLR advance before either Canon or Nikon jump wholeheartedly into FF mirrorless with a completely new mount and corresponding redesign of the entire lens range to take advantage of the more compact dimensions and weight possible ......



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Old Wednesday 16th August 2017, 19:07   #14
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CJ: Not sure about the 600 f4 DO, it might be a flare-monster , and the bokeh of the Canon 400/f4 DO is not very pleasing IMO. I would stick with Nikon.
They need our support more than Canon DO...
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Old Wednesday 16th August 2017, 22:40   #15
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T plus 1 and counting ......

Well the 16th August has been and gone .....

Launch is imminent https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...ment.aspx/amp/



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Old Wednesday 23rd August 2017, 05:57   #16
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Exclamation T minus 2 and counting - Press Release leaked!!

It looks like August 24 is the launch date, and here is the leaked press release!! Confirms everything we pretty much know already ....

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...aked.aspx/amp/




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Old Wednesday 23rd August 2017, 08:57   #17
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It looks like August 24 is the launch date, and here is the leaked press release!! Confirms everything we pretty much know already ....

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/niko...aked.aspx/amp/

Chosun
"CMOS backlit sensor in full Nikon FX "

First backlit sensor for Nikon DSLR I think.

Means lower noise perhaps, in those minuscule 45 Mpixels....
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Old Wednesday 23rd August 2017, 10:36   #18
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"CMOS backlit sensor in full Nikon FX "

First backlit sensor for Nikon DSLR I think.

Means lower noise perhaps, in those minuscule 45 Mpixels....
Yes, the benefits of the Sony connection.

Much better photon capture, particularly useful at smaller pixel pitch. It will be interesting to see the low light metrics - I'm expecting good things.

Perhaps they should nickname the D850 the 'Borg' ..... I think resistance will be futile!

I've been looking at FF WA Zooms such as the Tamron 15-30 f2.8. At over a kg, the doubling in weight over the Tokina 12-28 f4 DX is more than offset by the 'lightening' of the bank balance for this FF set up! ..... All things being equal, I would definitely be waiting for 3rd party battery grips at a fraction of the ~1/2$K real deal Nikon ones ....



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Old Wednesday 23rd August 2017, 19:21   #19
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Yes, the benefits of the Sony connection.

Much better photon capture, particularly useful at smaller pixel pitch. It will be interesting to see the low light metrics - I'm expecting good things.

Perhaps they should nickname the D850 the 'Borg' ..... I think resistance will be futile!

I've been looking at FF WA Zooms such as the Tamron 15-30 f2.8. At over a kg, the doubling in weight over the Tokina 12-28 f4 DX is more than offset by the 'lightening' of the bank balance for this FF set up! ..... All things being equal, I would definitely be waiting for 3rd party battery grips at a fraction of the ~1/2$K real deal Nikon ones ....

Chosun
Do you really need f2.8 for a wide angle?

I think VR is more useful for landscapes for example.

The Nikon 16-35/4 VR is pretty good, at 20-28mm and f5.6 - f11.

0r you could get on of the new f1.8 prime lenses like the 24/1.8 AF-S, light and not so bulky.
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Old Thursday 24th August 2017, 07:19   #20
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https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nik...sions-review/2

No...the weight has actually gone up...:
Weight (inc. batteries) 1015 g (2.24 lb / 35.80 oz).

Heavier than both 810 and 800...
but, the grip is redesigned and deeper, so it might give a better overall feel to it when using bigger lenses.

The viewfinder looks very nice though,
still not as good as the old F3 though....0.8x vs 0.75x mag

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Old Thursday 24th August 2017, 08:16   #21
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Meh, much hype, no GPS, no built in flash, ridiculous UK price 3,500.

Certainly no D700 replacement that's for sure.
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Old Thursday 24th August 2017, 16:30   #22
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Holy Carp!! ...... $5400 here

After Ozzie retailers recently lifting their act and offering prices on par (or below - logical given the closer shipping distance) with US prices x exchange rate, they seem to have slipped back into the twilight zone ....
https://www.teds.com.au/nikon-d850-body-only

Some really nice design though ...... 45.7MP FF BSI ....... Sweet!

A few disappointments - Video (parts), electronic first curtain shutter limitations, battery grip cost and conditions, but one of the biggest, (agree with Vespo here) is the weight ..... rumours of reduced weight turned out to be porky pies - and in fact weight increased! That's D5 weight (~1.4kg) with battery grip installed ......

Official specs here: https://www.dpreview.com/news/484019...ursts-4k-video

Dpreview hands on here: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/64...-on-nikon-d850

and first look video here: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/39...deo-nikon-d850

I hope they have this at Birdfair, can't wait for a hands on - but I will be waiting for the street price to drop to sensible levels - with the high demand expected, that should allow plenty of time for the official tests to filter through - I'm expecting some pretty wonderous results


That weight though ---- grrrr!!!!



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Old Friday 25th August 2017, 05:07   #23
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Question

Still trying to find my bottom jaw after the Australian price leaked (after expecting something more like ~$4000 AUD)

Resolution converted sample images to peruse
https://m.dpreview.com/news/28067941...-sample-images

What do folks think of image#5 (White bellied Sea Eagle) ?????




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Old Friday 25th August 2017, 07:11   #24
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Yes, Chosun. The prices in Australia are a bit crook. The price I saw in Australia is $5299au =($4172us) vs In the USA >$3296us =($4185au). maybe worth spending the extra thou and buy one overseas on holidays. Reminds me of the 90s when I wanted a Pentax 400mm f5.6...It was over $4000 in Australia but I eventually got it in Tokyo for less than $2500. I had a nice time in Tokyo too.
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Old Friday 25th August 2017, 18:12   #25
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