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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 02:42   #51
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[quote=mayoayo;3604117]
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Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
It seems that it's the 85mm "Victory Harpia"

They named the scope after one of the Marx Brothers?..RADICAL..
Harpia sounds female to me. Maybe they named it after Lucille Ball. https://www.google.com/search?q=luci...w=1920&bih=892
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 03:07   #52
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It's closing time here in California, 10PM on the east coast, and tomorrow in the UK. Here is the link to the Harpia introduction video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtwx...ature=youtu.be
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 05:25   #53
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Almost certain, this will be my next spotting scope purchase.
Glad I didn't buy the Swarovski or Kowa !
Look forward to when it becomes available.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 06:45   #54
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It's closing time here in California, 10PM on the east coast, and tomorrow in the UK. Here is the link to the Harpia introduction video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtwx...ature=youtu.be
Thanks!

Separate zoom ring on body.

DualSpeed focuser.

72 AFOV through the whole zoom range!

63-21 m/1000m FOV for 85mm model (22–65x mag).
59-19.5 m/1000m FOV for 95mm model (23-70x mag).

(what will the edge sharpness be? probably no flat field?)

Weight 1934/2078 grams (I guess that is excl. the eye piece that is 220 g).
Length 384/408 mm.
Close focus 3.5/4.5 meter.

3495/3995 € for the 85/95mm model (inc eye piece)
Made in Germany.

"Slim eye piece"
(Dobbler is poking on "large diameter" eye pieces as not being ergonomic)

Specs are on the link below, but nothing about ER of the eye piece.

https://www.zeiss.co.uk/sports-optic...ry-harpia.html

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 18th August 2017 at 08:54.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 07:44   #55
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So better FOV and larger zoom range as the ATX, that is not bad:
- ATX 95: 30-70x / 35-19 m/1000m
- Harpia 95: 23-70x / 58.8 – 19.5 m/1000m

Probably they will offer a higher mag eyepiece later on. Might also be an advantage compared to the ATX, probabaly easier to switche eyepieces in the field than to set up the ATX teleconverter.

Also interesting: "DualSpeed focus - Precise focussing with automatic switching between rapid and fine adjustment.". So they have integrated the dual speed in a single helix deal. Curious to hear how that works out.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 09:15   #56
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That is a cool picture: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f8&oe=5A222EA1

A Harpy Eagle, seen through the Harpia scope. Getting such a view is very high up on my wish list! Nevermind if that would be only through my old Swaro scope...
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 13:28   #57
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Hi,

I have to say the specs sound sweet - can't wait to get to look through one...

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 14:06   #58
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Another link since the one already mentioned isn't working https://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/....html#features ...

Unfortunately it seems that there is no straight view versions ...

My astro combo concept that Joachim mentioned http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...20AFOV%20zooms was well observed by Zeiss and I'm glad I gave ideas to them - they probably didn't needed these but I made it first and with 3.5x zoom ratio... Future owners of these models will see what I have be seeing for some years but even with wider AFOVs...

So it will be possible to use higher mags than 70x by replacing the eyepiece. Don't know if the system allows the use of 2" astro eyepieces but at least 1.25" will be possible and I'm remembering the Docter 12.5mm with 84-88º AFOV...
A Zeiss ep with higher magnifications can have wider AFOV...

Don't know if will be possible to Zeiss to develop a binoviewer to these models but, if so, it will zoom and that would be an advantage compared to the BTX.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 14:06   #59
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Only angled version apparently, so nothing for me.

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:01   #60
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...
So it will be possible to use higher mags than 70x by replacing the eyepiece. Don't know if the system allows the use of 2" astro eyepieces but at least 1.25" will be possible and I'm remembering the Docter 12.5mm with 84-88º AFOV...
A Zeiss ep with higher magnifications can have wider AFOV...
...
Just noticed that the eyepiece is 7.48mm https://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...technical-data so the Docter will produce lower mags and might vignette. Higher power alternatives can easily be 1.25" astro eps (if these reach focus...), and you can have a look at http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...mm%20eyepieces - 5mm eps will result on 35-105x and 4.5mm eps will result on 39-116x!!!... Now using an Ethos 4.7mm (37-111x, as it's clones), it will be interesting to see how the 110º AFOV work at minimum magnification...
Now I understand why the video mention the scope was designed for high power use. I'm curious to see the image quality of these...
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:08   #61
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The exit pupil is given as 2.50 at 23x or 22x.
What does this mean?

The filter thread of the 95mm aperture is M95 x 1.00. Does it slightly cut down the aperture?
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:20   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRodrigues View Post
Another link since the one already mentioned isn't working https://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/....html#features ...

Unfortunately it seems that there is no straight view versions ...

My astro combo concept that Joachim mentioned http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...20AFOV%20zooms was well observed by Zeiss and I'm glad I gave ideas to them - they probably didn't needed these but I made it first and with 3.5x zoom ratio... Future owners of these models will see what I have be seeing for some years but even with wider AFOVs...

So it will be possible to use higher mags than 70x by replacing the eyepiece. Don't know if the system allows the use of 2" astro eyepieces but at least 1.25" will be possible and I'm remembering the Docter 12.5mm with 84-88º AFOV...
A Zeiss ep with higher magnifications can have wider AFOV...

Don't know if will be possible to Zeiss to develop a binoviewer to these models but, if so, it will zoom and that would be an advantage compared to the BTX.
The links posted so far is working fine...

Big AFOV is not always a good thing, especially if wearing glasses and the ER is not enough. But the diameter of the EP-glass looks pretty large so hopefully it will be usable with glasses also, and as good as in the SF bins.

What worries the most is edge sharpness though, let's hope it's better than the Diascopes.

Zeiss could even make a zoom EP and then you would have the first zoom-zoom scope...would it be weird enough for you?

Or they could make the usual TC I guess. But 70x or even 65x mag is probably sufficient for 90% of all users under normal viewing conditions.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 18th August 2017 at 16:28.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:24   #63
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The exit pupil is given as 2.50 at 23x or 22x.
What does this mean?

The filter thread of the 95mm aperture is M95 x 1.00. Does it slightly cut down the aperture?
Must be an error. It's more like 3.9.
No mention on light transmission either.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:43   #64
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Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
...
Zeiss could even make a zoom EP and then you would have the first zoom-zoom scope...would it be weird enough for you?
...
It would not be the first since I have it already...
I even tried my combo with the Leica Zoom...
It would be fun to use the Diascope 3.75x zoom on the new models (resulting on a 11.25x zoom equivalent...), but as told on my last post it probably will vignette at lower mags... You can always try a nagler zoom but these have only 50º AFOV and 10mm eye-relief...
And yes, would be interesting that Zeiss would produce a new zoom eyepiece for these, increasing the zoom range and allowing higher mags...
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 16:46   #65
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I would want a straight view version and have to assume it becomes available.
Would be a huge mistake on Zeiss's part, not to offer a straight version !
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 17:11   #66
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Seems that the new model Harpia is amazing regarding the optical qualities, but the pricing is ridiculous. It will be a good scope for professional purposes, but somewhere unreachable for regular birders. I imagine that does we see as many Harpias as Nikon EDG scopes on the field? Hahahaha.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 17:45   #67
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The exit pupil is given as 2.50 at 23x or 22x.
What does this mean?

The filter thread of the 95mm aperture is M95 x 1.00. Does it slightly cut down the aperture?
Unless the calculation for exit pupil (objective diameter / magnification) has changed recently, the exit pupil spec means somebody doesn't know how to divide 95 by 23 or 85 by 22.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 17:57   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binastro View Post
The exit pupil is given as 2.50 at 23x or 22x.
What does this mean?

The filter thread of the 95mm aperture is M95 x 1.00. Does it slightly cut down the aperture?
The former is hopefully an error... don't know about the filter thread... one will loose a few mm aperture with a filter...

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 18:21   #69
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Just got off the phone with Zeiss. They don't have US pricing yet and the scopes won't be released here until early next year.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 18:27   #70
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Originally Posted by Vámibimbero View Post
Seems that the new model Harpia is amazing regarding the optical qualities, but the pricing is ridiculous. It will be a good scope for professional purposes, but somewhere unreachable for regular birders. I imagine that does we see as many Harpias as Nikon EDG scopes on the field? Hahahaha.
All larger alpha-scopes is above 3000€, at least around here, so it's not a huge price difference to ATX or Kowa for example. And price in stores might be a bit lower than recommended price.

And the scope will last for 25 years so the cost per month will be lower than cable TV, candy, cigaretts or whatever people tend to buy even without thinking...
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 18:33   #71
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I took at random a Minolta XD7 with a Tamron 28mm f/2.5 lens.
Using vernier calipers I make the 49mm thread actual internal diameter about 48.34mm.
I have not made repeated measures to ensure an exact measure.
I haven't checked roundness.
Also other lens threads may differ.

I don't have a 95mm filter to hand but it may mean that the actual thread internal diameter is less than 94mm.
If this is so then the true aperture of the 95mm Harpia might be less than 94mm.
But it needs to be measured to find the real aperture.

I can't easily find specific dimensions of a 95mm thread. 1.00mm pitch. But clearly some measurements are different to 95mm.
Thread shapes also vary as do angles of threads.

P.S.
Nikon 52mm lens thread measured as 51.24mm internal diameter with some variation. Not so easy to measure. 1.5% reduction.
Tamron 49mm thread internal diameter 1.35% reduction.

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 22:55   #72
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The filter sizes seem to be nominal sizes, which don't relate to any actual measurement.

Generally filters up to 30mm diameter have 0.5 mm pitch, up to 86mm 0.75mm pitch and larger sizes 1.00mm pitch.

The glass in a filter may be about 3mm smaller than the nominal size and the clear aperture possibly smaller still.

There is the related problem of T2 threads and M42 threads. They have different pitches and some old lenses are T2 some M42. Also adapters can be different.

The shape of the thread can be different. Some more pointed tops, some rounded. The angle of the threads could be 60 degrees or something else.

If the 95mm Harpia objective has an internal clear diameter of 93.7mm about I think that this is acceptable. So long as it is not further reduced by internal obstructions.

The 85mm Harpia has an M86 filter thread, so should be full size hopefully.

It would be interesting to measure the clear aperture of all the competing scopes.

Size isn't everything. performance is what counts.

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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 00:12   #73
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Anybody at Birdfair in a position to determine if a generic astronomical eyepiece works properly if it is substituted for the removable Harpia eyepiece? Specifically, does it produce the expected magnification and are the off-axis aberrations and distortions "normal" when it's used on the Harpia? Also, does the Harpia eyepiece work like a normal 7.48mm eyepiece if it is placed on a different scope or does it act more like a 20mm eyepiece with some odd off-axis behaviors ?

I ask because I suspect the Harpia eyepiece may be designed to work properly only when it is combined with the zoom elements in the Harpia scope body, and that other universal type eyepieces cannot be substituted. What Zeiss is calling an "objective lens zoom" appears at first description to resemble the Swaro ATX zoom, at least in the placement of its movable elements between the focusing lens and the erecting prism.

The scope certainly looks interesting. I'm actually glad I won't be seeing one for another six months. By then perhaps there will be a new Kowa 95-100mm to round out the choices.
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 08:21   #74
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Troubador is here and he will give a full account of the scope after the weekend, I had a play around with it yesterday on the stand with the experts and its a great piece of kit.
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 12:36   #75
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... I had a play around with it yesterday on the stand with the experts and its a great piece of kit.
Too short for a first contact opinion...

We want more info...
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