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Old Tuesday 12th September 2017, 18:37   #1
nikonmike
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Sony RX10 1V the new boy.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-...es-new-rx10m4/
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 02:46   #2
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$1,700 USD. Looks quite good.

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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 03:41   #3
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$1,700 USD. Looks quite good.
That does sound like a lot of money for a superzoom.

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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 12:37   #4
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RIP virtually every other camera!

This is one seriously nice little bit of kit .....

For what they are, they are superb
https://m.dpreview.com/articles/0348...ot-dsc-rx10-iv
The IQ of the previous III model looks very nice considering the 1" sensor size: http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/rx10-iii.htm

Hamstrung perhaps only by slow memory card formats, and a genuine 60p for the 4K would have been nice, but would have trod on too many higher end models I suspect ......
They will probably be sorted in the V+ versions down the track, along with a bigger battery ....

I can think of a few OS trips where I would have much rather carried this around, and not had the hassle of changing lenses and lugging extra gear .....



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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 15:11   #5
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Yup, if I wasn't invested in MFT kit would seriously be looking at this camera. Sony's excellent Phase-detect AF included in a superzoom makes this the most capable bridge camera yet at this point (subject to reviews).

However it is expensive and in that price range, many who only want a camera for bird photos (i.e. long telephoto mainly with single lens) may opt for an APS-C kit with equivalent PDAF/Dual-pixel performance for a few dollars extra.

I like Panasonic value, but they need to look at improving AF for those interested in video.

Wish Sony would release a camera with MFT mount that I could stick my PL100-400 on .... never happen:) .

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RIP virtually every other camera!

This is one seriously nice little bit of kit .....

For what they are, they are superb
https://m.dpreview.com/articles/0348...ot-dsc-rx10-iv
The IQ of the previous III model looks very nice considering the 1" sensor size: http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/rx10-iii.htm

Hamstrung perhaps only by slow memory card formats, and a genuine 60p for the 4K would have been nice, but would have trod on too many higher end models I suspect ......
They will probably be sorted in the V+ versions down the track, along with a bigger battery ....

I can think of a few OS trips where I would have much rather carried this around, and not had the hassle of changing lenses and lugging extra gear .....



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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 20:44   #6
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This may well be the bridge camera that sees me sell my DSLR and 100-400 lens. I so dislike carrying that camera that I rarely do except for pelagics.
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:21   #7
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Compared to many other bridge cameras out there 600mm seems rather modest so why would one buy this camera rather than one with a smaller sensor but a 1200+mm upper range? This isn't, I hasten to add, a criticism but just a question!
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 22:49   #8
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Compared to many other bridge cameras out there 600mm seems rather modest so why would one buy this camera rather than one with a smaller sensor but a 1200+mm upper range? This isn't, I hasten to add, a criticism but just a question!
John, I can't speak for others, but I've carried a Canon DSLR plus 400mm lens for years, and dislike the weight, so I'm motivated to move to a lighter camera. Here is what the RX10iv brings to the table that draws my attention:

- Intersection of lens quality and sensor size that yields good results, fair low light performance, and manageable weight.
- Robust modern autofocus

That's basically the magic combo right there. Prior cameras from Sony and others were lacking in the autofocus department. It appears that this could be the first high end bridge camera to compete with a DSLR at 1/3 the weight. Of course the DSLR still has several advantages but not if you leave it at home. If I were going to pick an even smaller bridge camera I would want lighter weight while maintaining as much autofocus performance and image quality as possible - I wouldn't want a larger zoom at all.

One guy's opinion. It will be curious to see what the next generation of Panasonic brings.
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:27   #9
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John, I can't speak for others, but I've carried a Canon DSLR plus 400mm lens for years, and dislike the weight, so I'm motivated to move to a lighter camera. Here is what the RX10iv brings to the table that draws my attention:

- Intersection of lens quality and sensor size that yields good results, fair low light performance, and manageable weight.
- Robust modern autofocus

That's basically the magic combo right there. Prior cameras from Sony and others were lacking in the autofocus department. It appears that this could be the first high end bridge camera to compete with a DSLR at 1/3 the weight. Of course the DSLR still has several advantages but not if you leave it at home. If I were going to pick an even smaller bridge camera I would want lighter weight while maintaining as much autofocus performance and image quality as possible - I wouldn't want a larger zoom at all.

One guy's opinion. It will be curious to see what the next generation of Panasonic brings.
Thanks. I have a M4/3 camera with the 100-300mm (= 200-600mm) but often seem to find the 600mm too little - perhaps because I'm a birder with a camera & not a photographer who likes birds. Hence I'm often tempted by the mega zoom bridge cameras mainly for their better reach but also as you can change down to 24mm without swapping lenses.
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 03:10   #10
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Agree.

Also if the Sony has extended zoom options (i.e further cropping while reducing resolution) to 8Mp, then you get a 1500mm effective reach (useful for better focus and metering) with 8Mp image that can be further cropped in post.

With my Oly EM5 Mk 1, I do this ext zoom with my PL 100-400 to get an effective 1600mm reach with 8Mp image.

Beyond that range in any case it is difficult to keep steady even with the best IS and a tripod would be needed.

What will also be key with this Sony is the performance of the EVF (size, clarity, lag).


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John, I can't speak for others, but I've carried a Canon DSLR plus 400mm lens for years, and dislike the weight, so I'm motivated to move to a lighter camera. Here is what the RX10iv brings to the table that draws my attention:

- Intersection of lens quality and sensor size that yields good results, fair low light performance, and manageable weight.
- Robust modern autofocus

That's basically the magic combo right there. Prior cameras from Sony and others were lacking in the autofocus department. It appears that this could be the first high end bridge camera to compete with a DSLR at 1/3 the weight. Of course the DSLR still has several advantages but not if you leave it at home. If I were going to pick an even smaller bridge camera I would want lighter weight while maintaining as much autofocus performance and image quality as possible - I wouldn't want a larger zoom at all.

One guy's opinion. It will be curious to see what the next generation of Panasonic brings.
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 18:50   #11
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This does seem to be the first camera that could make me think that my canon 7d mark ii may be my last SLR body.

I'd love it for when I can't be bothered to take the SLR and 100 - 400 lens - especially when walking miles in mountains - but would struggle to justify the cost as a second camera.
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 06:58   #12
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The big improvement as far as i can see is the focus tracking,the other thing which i think is on the previous model is the manual zoom ring.
Just after buying my P900 i got a survey request from Nikon and had to say what would improve the camera in my opinion,i said a manual zoom ring,standing waiting for a zoom lever to get the lens to the right focal lentgh is a pain with all bridge cameras.
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 09:51   #13
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The big improvement as far as i can see is the focus tracking,the other thing which i think is on the previous model is the manual zoom ring.
Just after buying my P900 i got a survey request from Nikon and had to say what would improve the camera in my opinion,i said a manual zoom ring,standing waiting for a zoom lever to get the lens to the right focal lentgh is a pain with all bridge cameras.
I have never used a bridge camera but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is no point investing in another DSLR as the technology of m3/4, mirrorless and bridge cameras such as this will soon make them redundant.

One question I have however is about the start up on a modern bridge camera - with my DSLR with 300mm prime lens attached if I switch the camera off the lens stays at 300mm, so as soon as I switch it on it is ready to take a shot. However with "point and shoot" cameras generally I am used to the lens retracting and the whole thing closing down when switched off - so what happens with cameras like the RX10 mark III (and this new m IV)? I'm guessing the manual zoom ring might fix this problem?
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 11:11   #14
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Compared to many other bridge cameras out there 600mm seems rather modest so why would one buy this camera rather than one with a smaller sensor but a 1200+mm upper range? This isn't, I hasten to add, a criticism but just a question!
John, you are right, that when chasing 'geewhizzits' and lbj's that even 600mm can seem to come up well short. I hope the following helps .....

This Sony has an in-camera crop mode that will shoot 900mm images at 10MP, and 1200mm images at 5MP. I haven't read any specific confirmation for this new IV model, but I take it that it is at the full whack of 24fps - holey!

The big headlines (apart from the downsampled 4K video - far preferable to the pixel binning method that even the mighty new Nikon D850 FF jobbie uses) are the combination of
*phase detect AF from the upper range DSLR models (performance to be confirmed in testing, but expected to be a quantum leap better than other bridge cameras on moving subjects - BIF, and kids hopped up on red lollies etc :)
*24fps (the full AF tracking rates may be less - keep an eye on the tests)
*in concert with the punching 1" Sony BSI sensor + fast Zeiss quality glass which should offer subject freezing shutter speeds.
*In an all-in-one sealed wideangle to telephoto zoom range and fast aperture speed camera that NO DSLR CAN MATCH, let alone other bridge cameras.

With the long legged competition, there is no free lunch, and those tiny sensor super zooms of 1200-2000mm get those seemingly large figures at a cost .....
*slow telephoto apertures of around ~f6.5 ...... the quality Zeiss lens of this new Sony at f4 is in another league.
*some are just offering jpeg capture, and even those that are using RAW have the pixels crammed in there like smartphone cameras ..... the 20MP sensor of this Sony is a 1" format so should offer better Dynamic Range and better less than ideal lighting conditions performance.
*mostly contrast detect AF is slower on rapidly moving and low contrast subjects which can result in the dreaded hunting for focus .... the promise is that this Sony should leave them in the dust - that is reason enough alone for picking it over the longer zoom smaller sensor bridge cameras (though like this bin vs that bin, debate often ranges strongly! :)
*some don't offer manual zoom so can have painfully slow racking times ..... this Sony's manual zoom ability should let you pre position it at shut down and start up times to minimize both time and wear and tear.

The bottom line is that this Sony RX10 IV should get as good or better pictures than other bridge cameras more often in much more varied (read less than ideal) conditions, and cause those lugging bigger, heavier, MFT, and APS-C setups to seriously question why. Even FF users will drool ....

This camera is a bit of a milestone!
https://m.dpreview.com/samples/35293...amples-gallery


Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Friday 15th September 2017 at 12:50. Reason: elaboration .....
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Old Monday 18th September 2017, 17:20   #15
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I'm really very excited about this camera, and my credit card is starting to itch, having done two recent trips which involved lots of walking up mountains. On the first I tried my HS50 and was frustrated wishing I had my SLR. In the second I reverted to the SLR and couldn't enjoy the walking because of the weight.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has one and has compared it directly to an SLR with an approprate lens. I'd laso like to know what the macro is like as the headline figures can be misleading - although I have to admit to only scanning them. For example the Canon HS10 has a fantastic macro on wide angle - a couple of cm - but this decreases rapidly as you zoom. Whereas a Canon 100 - 400 mark ii lens has the same close focus whatever the focal length making it fantastic for butterflies and dragonflies.

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Old Thursday 21st September 2017, 07:41   #16
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https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-cybe...ark-iv-review/

I like Cameralabs reports.
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Old Monday 25th September 2017, 02:50   #17
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Curious if anyone has used this yet for birds, particularly in flight, or seen any real-world results/reviews?
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Old Monday 25th September 2017, 04:38   #18
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intrigued to see that in the US this is being priced at USD 1,698, whilst in the UK it is being priced at GBP 1,799 (equivalent to USD 2,433)!

I guess I will not be buying mine in the UK!
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Old Monday 25th September 2017, 12:14   #19
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International pricing is indeed insanity on a lot of things. It's like they confuse the prices between NZ and UK...
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Old Monday 25th September 2017, 19:05   #20
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intrigued to see that in the US this is being priced at USD 1,698, whilst in the UK it is being priced at GBP 1,799 (equivalent to USD 2,433)!

I guess I will not be buying mine in the UK!
This is why I don't feel guilty about using the 'grey' market. Sadly HDEW don't seem to have many non-SLR cameras at the moment.
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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 08:52   #21
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That does sound like a lot of money for a superzoom.

Niels
Yes but think of all the lenses you would be saving!
In my own case, post spinal surgery, I am unable to lug two bodies with lenses around with me on nature expeditions, so the Sony RX10 iii served well for my purpose. The Mk 4 is even better as it is blisteringly fast to focus and on continuous shooting mode it is superb.

Bridge cameras hold no concerns for me as I used to shoot with an early Panasonic FZ20 which with careful upsizing from it's tiny 4mpx sensor, it was capable of producing A3 size prints good enough for acceptance in international salons. These were usually taken in superb light though, a pre-requisite for good photographs using tiny sensors in my experience.

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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 15:01   #22
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What is the Sony RX10 iii like in low light? For me that is a crucial point. I'm getting fed up of lugging an SLR and lens around but I'm after a camera that can cope with poor light. I realise that it's not likely to be up there with my 7D mark ii but I need it to be not that far behind for it to be a viable option for me.
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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 19:53   #23
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Thanks. I have a M4/3 camera with the 100-300mm (= 200-600mm) but often seem to find the 600mm too little - perhaps because I'm a birder with a camera & not a photographer who likes birds. Hence I'm often tempted by the mega zoom bridge cameras mainly for their better reach but also as you can change down to 24mm without swapping lenses.
Well this camera is basically the same price as the excellent Pana-Leica 100-400mm (200-800mm equivalent) zoom lens for M4/3. I used to use the 100-300mm you reference and had similar feelings about it, but since switching I now feel as though I have pretty much all the reach I'm going to want in most typical photo situations. It's significantly lighter than a typical DSLR setup, but the camera has a significantly larger sensor than a superzoom, so better low light capabilities. So unless you need or want to go ultralight, or need to save a bit of money, I don't see an advantage to a high end superzoom over M4/3.
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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 20:04   #24
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Well this camera is basically the same price as the excellent Pana-Leica 100-400mm (200-800mm equivalent) zoom lens for M4/3. I used to use the 100-300mm you reference and had similar feelings about it, but since switching I now feel as though I have pretty much all the reach I'm going to want in most typical photo situations. It's significantly lighter than a typical DSLR setup, but the camera has a significantly larger sensor than a superzoom, so better low light capabilities. So unless you need or want to go ultralight, or need to save a bit of money, I don't see an advantage to a high end superzoom over M4/3.
Forgive my ignorance about M4/3 but what would be an appropriate body to go with this lens and do you know roughly what the combined weight would be?

The sensor on the Sony is considerably larger than that found on most superzooms, which basically have a similar sensor to that in a phone. How it's low-light capability compare to SLR/M4/3, I have no idea.
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Old Tuesday 24th October 2017, 20:07   #25
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Here's a comparison of DXO scores of the Sony (including RX10iii) and recent M4/3 bodies/sensors (they refer to the low light score as "sports"). Higher is better:

https://www.dxomark.com/cameras/bran...taType=rankDxo

All the M4/3 bodies score better on low light than the Sony RX10iii, as you'd expect from the larger sensor. The Oly EM-1 mkii scores almost 3 times better.
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