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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 00:36   #26
Egrets Ivadafew
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'Voices in my head.'
Is this because we know there is no such thing as the perfect binocular-
Therefore-
We know however much we spend we are buying something that is imperfect-
Therefore-
We subconsciously know the imperfection is there every time we use the bins-
Therefore-
It manifests to the point where we start searching for something better (less imperfect).
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 02:05   #27
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I handled that one at the store not too long ago. It did not score number 1 in my test.

CG
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 04:59   #28
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I agree with most here: too bad F&S felt it necessary to include a value parameter in the score when that is clearly such a personal issue. All they had to do was give the score (less the value component), the price, and the summary. I would think most F&S readers would be competent enough to take it from there, right? It could also be very misleading to the many out there who just do a quick scan and miss the part about value being in the score. I'm not saying one bin is better than the other, mind you. I've not put any of the tested bins to my eyes.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 05:19   #29
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I handled that one at the store not too long ago. It did not score number 1 in my test.

CG
CG. Just curious what you didn't like about the Nikon MHG. Maybe compared to some of your other binoculars. It seems the MHG is liked or disliked. Like there is no in between. I value your opinion being another Denverite. What store did you handle one at in Denver?

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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 08:53   #30
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[quote=Steve C;3628459]

I said in the recent comparative review I recently posted that there was not what I considered a true field worthy difference. That difference has to show up in definitive fashion in normal hand held use.When I need to pour over resolution charts on tripod mounted binoculars to ferret out differences, I don't consider those differences to be of much consequence.

Well said Steve.

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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 08:54   #31
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Originally Posted by Egrets Ivadafew View Post
'Voices in my head.'
Is this because we know there is no such thing as the perfect binocular-
Therefore-
We know however much we spend we are buying something that is imperfect-
Therefore-
We subconsciously know the imperfection is there every time we use the bins-
Therefore-
It manifests to the point where we start searching for something better (less imperfect).
No

Lee
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 09:02   #32
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Originally Posted by Egrets Ivadafew View Post
'Voices in my head.'
Is this because we know there is no such thing as the perfect binocular-
Therefore-
We know however much we spend we are buying something that is imperfect-
Therefore-
We subconsciously know the imperfection is there every time we use the bins-
Therefore-
It manifests to the point where we start searching for something better (less imperfect).
Or Yes

It depends on the person.

Some of the worse binos I have seen have been in the hands of a tour leader. Medium priced and medium capability binos, armour almost hanging off, scratches on the lenses, paint worn away, one eyecup barely attached. But he could identify birds and animals in an instant. OK in one or two habitats I can do that because I am so familiar with the birds and animals there, but he would describe what he was seeing in terms of behaviour and plumage details and it was clear he simply saw past his bino's imperfections and just perceived the subjects. Other folks can't stand binos if they can't point there eyes to the edge of the field and see a sharp image or can't stand to see a curved pole at the edge of the fov or detect a tiny amount of CA. For me its free play in the focuser that annoys.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 10:23   #33
Egrets Ivadafew
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Yeah, earlier in this thread, I asked Chuck (Chill6x6) how he compared the Nikon to 'alpha' bins, basically because, from previous threads, he comes across as common sense knowledgeable, and because he owns an MHG. Why? I mean why do I feel I need to know my MHG is up there with the big guns. I mean it's light (weight) for an 8x42, has the FOV of a lighthouse, I'm happily immune to negligible CA, and the focuser is silky smooth. I'm starting to feel like the guy who leaves the car dealers with a brand new, top of the shop, Range Rover, only to feel cheapened because he sees someone drive past in a Bentley.
Maybe it's my own inadequacies as a birdwatcher I'm trying to suppress. A case of 'If only I had a Noctovid, I'd have nailed that little warbler that just went flitting through those branches'.
'Binocular Doubt', it can really screw you up.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 11:43   #34
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Originally Posted by Egrets Ivadafew View Post
Yeah, earlier in this thread, I asked Chuck (Chill6x6) how he compared the Nikon to 'alpha' bins, basically because, from previous threads, he comes across as common sense knowledgeable, and because he owns an MHG. Why? I mean why do I feel I need to know my MHG is up there with the big guns. I mean it's light (weight) for an 8x42, has the FOV of a lighthouse, I'm happily immune to negligible CA, and the focuser is silky smooth. I'm starting to feel like the guy who leaves the car dealers with a brand new, top of the shop, Range Rover, only to feel cheapened because he sees someone drive past in a Bentley.
Maybe it's my own inadequacies as a birdwatcher I'm trying to suppress. A case of 'If only I had a Noctovid, I'd have nailed that little warbler that just went flitting through those branches'.
'Binocular Doubt', it can really screw you up.
I've just come back from a holiday where for the most part I used mid-priced 32mm (I usually major on 42s) binos with the occasional use of a Zeiss FL 8x32. First conclusion was that in 3 weeks viewing there was one 10 minute period one dusk when I missed having a 42. Second was that the little Meopta and Kowa were good enough to satisfy me for a lifetime. There was nothing that the FL did that the others couldn't do but it did it with a touch more brightness and with just a touch less CA (although the Kowa runs it very close on this) and a soupcon more contrast.
However, in a couple of weeks I will be taking SF 42s to Islay and I will love using them.
Its OK to strive for the best you can get and it is absolutely fine if this turns out to be a Nikon (MHG is fabulous value for money) a Meopta or Kowa, a Conquest or Opticron or GPO.
I really doubt whether you would make any more identifications with an Nvid than with your MHGs and for sure, as you have hinted at, adding to your experience of birds both familiar and unusual, will gradually improve your identification skills. The more familiar you are with the general impression and habits and calls of the familiar, the more rapidly you will spot something new and spot why it is different and you will do this just as successfully through an MHG as an Nvid.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 13:20   #35
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Thanks Lee,
A voice of calm reason in a wilderness of 'if only'. At this rate I might find myself cured.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 14:40   #36
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Thanks Lee,
A voice of calm reason in a wilderness of 'if only'. At this rate I might find myself cured.
Sounds like you need some birding therapy. How about Gibraltar Point (not the one that Spain is always claiming)?

Lee
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 14:44   #37
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Thread hijack alert (sorry).
So Chuck, in lieu of Field and Stream test, how do you rate your MHG against alphas like the Noctovid, and are the differences cavernous

Bill
I've never directly compared the Monarch HD 8X42 to a Noctivid because until lately I never had a Noctivid 8X42, mine was a 10X42 at the time(then EO had their closeout sale!)...But I have compared it to an SF, an EDG II, Maven B.1, and a Leica Trinovid HD. The thought early on was that with the Monarch HG one was getting a less than $1000 EDG II which I found to not be true. The large FOV indicated it might be an SF challenger, again not true. When I say this I am speaking optically. The MHG isn't a true flat field binocular as both the SF and EDG II are. The image quality of the MHG isn't quite what either the SF or EDG II offer, especially the EDG II. But IMO it's not what the MHG doesn't offer, it's what it DOES offer. Perfect functioning/feeling focus adjustment, class leading FOV, locking diopter adjustment, objective cover that won't get lost, plenty of eye relief for most, small stature, light weight, and pretty close to, if not class leading optics. Best of all for the price one ONE of the alpha binocular,s one can have both an 8X and a 10X Monarch HG. This makes more sense to me than just one alpha. If you come to me and tell me you have $1000 and which 8X42 binocular to buy...I'm gonna say Monarch HG 8X42 all day long.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 15:17   #38
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Chuck, thank you for your measured, carefully thought out response, much appreciated. I see exactly what you're saying i.e. MHG=everything I'll ever need, whereas SF=everything I'll ever need+'wow'. The 'wow' I can do without, particularly as it would be accompanied by Mrs Egrets saying 'you spent how much???' However, the MHG does have one advantage over the SF, and this kind of brings us back to what this thread was originally about. If I ever damage the MHG, it will be a case of 'Oh damn', whereas if I bought an SF and subsequently damaged it, it would be more in the realms of 'Oh my GOD!!!' (please picture a terminally scratched Zeiss, and a grown man sunk to his knees in the middle of a forest and crying like a girl). Anyway, I have duly taken the tablets kindly donated by yourself and Lee, and all I can say is, Gibraltar Point here I come.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 19:46   #39
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Maybe it's my own inadequacies as a birdwatcher I'm trying to suppress. A case of 'If only I had a Noctovid, I'd have nailed that little warbler that just went flitting through those branches'.
'Binocular Doubt', it can really screw you up.
That about sums up my disease too, Sir Ivadafew. 15 years and about 47 binoculars later (and that's just the ones I can remember), I use Mulligatawny's 'old' Nikon SE 8x32. Does more than it says on the tin. But the angst only began to wane when my eagerness to rush off 'twitching' or scouring headlands at migration times waned first. Now I look at birds, through SE's, whenever the mood takes me, and I don't think about the binos. But it was an unhealthy and expensive obsession, possibly something subconscious that had nothing to do 'per se' with binoculars, a bit like hoarders or whatever. Or maybe some of us just fall for the marketing hype more easily. In any case, it's nice to know that the MHG are so well thought-of by calm and rational folk like Chuck. If I were 'starting out', I'm sure that's what I'd buy.

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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 19:56   #40
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I really doubt whether you would make any more identifications with an Nvid than with your MHGs and for sure, as you have hinted at, adding to your experience of birds both familiar and unusual, will gradually improve your identification skills. The more familiar you are with the general impression and habits and calls of the familiar, the more rapidly you will spot something new and spot why it is different and you will do this just as successfully through an MHG as an Nvid.

Lee
That is excellent advice. I'm a little over a year into birding, and I can attest to the learning by experience aspect. I feel a bit of growth almost every time I go out. Always fun to learn new things at any age. Keeps me young, or at least I feel like a kid when I am immersed.

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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 22:40   #41
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I have found that with alpha binoculars it is much easier to pick up field ID characteristics on birds that you only get a glimpse of.

It seems to be a combination of color rendition and contrast, as well as resolution.

I usually find that most of my birds are 100+ yards away, so these become more important.
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 22:48   #42
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I have found that with alpha binoculars hat it is much easier to pick up field ID characteristics on birds that you only get a glimpse of.

It seems to be a combination of color rendition and contrast, as well as resolution.

I usually find that most of my birds are 100+ yards away, so these become more important.
Just when these guys were starting to feel better, and were even possibly on the road to complete recovery, you have to go and say that............!
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 22:50   #43
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Just when these guys were starting to feel better, and were even possibly on the road to complete recovery, you have to go and say that............!
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Old Wednesday 11th October 2017, 23:00   #44
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I'd reply to you Maljuno, but I've had to recall the nurse. She's just preparing my injection, then she's going to tuck me in. Nighty night everybody.
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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 00:00   #45
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I'd reply to you Maljuno, but I've had to recall the nurse. She's just preparing my injection, then she's going to tuck me in. Nighty night everybody.
I dismissed my nurse some time back. I can do this on my own, knuckles and teeth clenched. (Until Canon brings out an IS 8x40L series in the shape of a Leica Ultravid).
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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 03:03   #46
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I really doubt whether you would make any more identifications with an Nvid than with your MHGs...
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I have found that with alpha binoculars it is much easier to pick up field ID characteristics on birds that you only get a glimpse of.
I would like a thread where people list instances where they know or think an "alpha" helped them in a bird ID over a lesser binocular.

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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 05:33   #47
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CG. Just curious what you didn't like about the Nikon MHG. Maybe compared to some of your other binoculars. It seems the MHG is liked or disliked. Like there is no in between. I value your opinion being another Denverite. What store did you handle one at in Denver?
Dennis,

I know it was at Cabela's but don't recall if it was Lone Tree or Thornton ??? I pass thru them too frequently. Also think it was a 10x model and not 8x.

I was comparing it to what I recall about the 8x32 earlier version I once had (one before it was called the premier but don't recall if that is the HGL or LXL - I did a decent review of it on Birdforum comparing it to my 8x32 Conquest HD and the model will be listed there if you need to know).

For me it didn't compare in optics or build, just didn't seem as solid or refined in operation and felt a little plastic like compared to the older model. I didn't find the optics on par with the older model either (which I consider a tad better than the Conquest HD which I ended out keeping). So, my preference is for the earlier version.

The glass I have on hand for the last 10 months or better: EDG 7x42, UV HD+ 7x42, Conquest HD 8x32, B3 8x30, BGA Classic 7x36.

I did look thru the Conquest HD 8x42 after looking thru the MHG and thought the view much more impressive in the Conquest so would put my money there (my preference for the x32 model vs the x42 model for various reasons).

As you mentioned, it seems to be different for everyone. I know you'll find one soon and post your own opinions which i look forward to reading.

CG

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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 08:21   #48
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out keeping)

The glass I have on hand for the last 10 months or better: EDG 7x42, UV HD+ 7x42, Conquest HD 8x32, B3 8x30, BGA Classic 7x36.

CG
CG
Thats a really nice selection of binos you have there but I am surprised to notice there isn't a 10x and since you live in place with big mountains and potentially huge viewing distances I wonder why this is so. Maybe you find 10x too unsteady?

Lee
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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 11:40   #49
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For me its free play in the focuser that annoys.

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Probably depends how much play there is. I think stiff focusing might be worse.
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Old Thursday 12th October 2017, 12:52   #50
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I think stiff focusing might be worse.
Probably depends how stiff it is.

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