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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 16:28   #1
dries1
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Binos

New member here,

I have been a binocular fan for a while and have some military glass that I actually used for general observation when out in the woods, and I admit some bird viewing in the back yard.

I actually purchased these because of lower cost and robust construction, and from info from Holger Merlitz.

they are below
Hensoldt DF 8X30,10X50
Hensoldt F18 8X30
Zeiss DF 7X40
Kern Arrau 1988 newer hinge
Civilian 7X42 Docter
Fujinon M22 7X50

For low light I have two Zeiss jena 8X50 octarems one is rubber armored with later coatings. While all have their +s and -s, I really was amazed on how good some glass could be from the 60s and 70s.
Well I wanted to see how a newer glass would compare with all the newer coatings and all, and researched for a mid priced glass. I guess I am old school, i would not spend $1500 to 3000 for a binocular, I still drive a 1995 pickup so I wanted something reliable. While searching I could not find a used upper end roof for less than $500 and I was frustrated until I found a 8X32 hg for $500. It is constructed very well, not heavy for me and the view is astounding. I then found a mint 10X32 HG for less, also a great well constructed glass, although a bit more limited (10X a bit of strain to keep steady without a tripod). So for less than 1000 I have two glasses that I will keep, and I did not have to spend over 1500 for one alpha glass.

I also purchased an EII knowing that they are from japan, for $400, I now have a 8X30 porro with a great view. I now have spent almost $1500 for 3 glasses and for me I feel that getting something used (and a new EII) of quality is a win win. Now I need to take care of them since talking with nikon, they have no parts for the HGs and will not service the EIIs, but then none of my military glasses have ever needed repair.

I still use all my binos for general observation of the wilderness, and yes some birding. I still have much respect for the older glass, construction and color, and I have appreciation for the newer glass with good robust construction and viewing.

Andy W.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 17:06   #2
WJC
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Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
New member here,

I have been a binocular fan for a while and have some military glass that I actually used for general observation when out in the woods, and I admit some bird viewing in the back yard.

I actually purchased these because of lower cost and robust construction, and from info from Holger Merlitz.

they are below
Hensoldt DF 8X30,10X50
Hensoldt F18 8X30
Zeiss DF 7X40
Kern Arrau 1988 newer hinge
Civilian 7X42 Docter
Fujinon M22 7X50

For low light I have two Zeiss jena 8X50 octarems one is rubber armored with later coatings. While all have their +s and -s, I really was amazed on how good some glass could be from the 60s and 70s.
Well I wanted to see how a newer glass would compare with all the newer coatings and all, and researched for a mid priced glass. I guess I am old school, i would not spend $1500 to 3000 for a binocular, I still drive a 1995 pickup so I wanted something reliable. While searching I could not find a used upper end roof for less than $500 and I was frustrated until I found a 8X32 hg for $500. It is constructed very well, not heavy for me and the view is astounding. I then found a mint 10X32 HG for less, also a great well constructed glass, although a bit more limited (10X a bit of strain to keep steady without a tripod). So for less than 1000 I have two glasses that I will keep, and I did not have to spend over 1500 for one alpha glass.

I also purchased an EII knowing that they are from japan, for $400, I now have a 8X30 porro with a great view. I now have spent almost $1500 for 3 glasses and for me I feel that getting something used (and a new EII) of quality is a win win. Now I need to take care of them since talking with nikon, they have no parts for the HGs and will not service the EIIs, but then none of my military glasses have ever needed repair.

I still use all my binos for general observation of the wilderness, and yes some birding. I still have much respect for the older glass, construction and color, and I have appreciation for the newer glass with good robust construction and viewing.

Andy W.
Hi, Andy:

The Fujinon M22 7x50 is the same internally as the Swift Seahawk, the Bushnell Navigator, and several others. There can be a difference in the coatings. But, as far as they are concerned, I thought a snippet from my book might be informative.

13 “I Really Don’t Understand Lens Coatings.”

... Frequently, when an observer suggests one manufacturer’s AR coatings are noticeably superior to those of another brand of similar quality, the difference he or she is seeing probably relates more to baffling, prism shields, edge blackening, size and position of the field stop, knife-edge on that stop, prism type, slotted prisms (in Porro prism instruments), configuration of the eyepiece, and other considerations than coatings alone.

Bill
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 20:56   #3
dries1
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M22

Hi Bill,

The M22s are a fine glass, except that they have laser protection and so everything is gray/purple even when looking at green meadows and the filters also restrict light, perhaps near 10%. I like the reticle, it helps me use it as a rangefinder. I heard that the laser protection filters can be removed, but it is not worth it. Fujinon makes a polaris which is similar without the reticle or the filters.

It is amazing that the other binos you mentioned used the same prisms, user friendly parts.

Regards,

Andy W.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 21:56   #4
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Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
Hi Bill,

The M22s are a fine glass, except that they have laser protection and so everything is gray/purple even when looking at green meadows and the filters also restrict light, perhaps near 10%. I like the reticle, it helps me use it as a rangefinder. I heard that the laser protection filters can be removed, but it is not worth it. Fujinon makes a polaris which is similar without the reticle or the filters.

It is amazing that the other binos you mentioned used the same prisms, user-friendly parts.

Regards,

Andy W.
With large enough orders, you can have just about anything you want.

Right before the original Swift company went under ... thank you, Allison ... they started having larger EPs (more eye relief and wider fields) on that instrument a la “Adlerblick,” (see attached). I got excited about that and tried to start ordering some for Captain’s. However, Masaki said I would need to order 100 at a time, which was something Captain’s—already on the hook of some big names and expensive inventories—just couldn’t do. This was at a time when Internet sales was really starting to flex its muscle.

Bill
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 23:26   #5
dries1
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adlerblick

Bill,

Wow, they would have sold out quick I bet, the upper body looks exactly like the fuji M22. They would likely outlast anything made today, and if made, would cost more than a medium to high end porro.

Thanks for the great info, I learn something new each day.

Refards,

Andy W.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 00:01   #6
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Bill,

Wow, they would have sold out quick I bet, the upper body looks exactly like the fuji M22. They would likely outlast anything made today, and if made, would cost more than a medium to high end porro.

Thanks for the great info, I learn something new each day.

Refards,

Andy W.
And, for those only wanting conditional alignment (as opposed to 3-axis collimation), they can be aligned (when errors are small) without even going inside. See attached.

Bill
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 16:46   #7
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171102

Using the attached photo earlier, I was reminded of a question that not too long ago came my way:

“What do you do in the unusual event that the EP can’t be taken off of a Sea Hawk (spelled as one OR two words)?”

First, it CAN be taken off. Secondly, the “event” is as common as not for instruments used at sea. Even though the metal ring and the 3 attaching screws are of dissimilar metal, the salt spray environment OFTEN causes them to seize ... permanently. More often than not, when this happens the technician must put grace and finesse away and get into the real world. Being brutal with the instrument may sound like a shocker for optical aficionados, but it saves much time for the tech and money for the repair customer.

Knowing what I was up against many times each year (as part of the marine industry), I kept a bag of NEW diopter rings handy all the time. Sometimes the diopter ring could be removed with light force; other times ... not.

Being mostly plastic, the 2 parts of the diopter ring can be removed separately ... sometimes ... they may also be removed as a unit. After all, in new condition, they were put on that way.

I found the best way to remove a frozen diopter ring (as one or two pieces) was to slice into the ring with the stone parting blade on a Dremel Tool. Once a clean slice has been made for the full width of the aluminum ring*, a screwdriver blade can be inserted. And, with that done—if the cut is deep enough—the twisting of the blade will cause the ring to break away. (see attached)

Clean up the mess and put the new diopter ring on. If you don’t know how to set “0 diopters,” just recess it to the level of the other ring, before THAT ring is taken off, when it is set on 0 diopters. The whole process should take about 30- 45 seconds.

* If you get too excited with the parting process, you’re apt to cut into PLASTIC EP itself. If you just score it—no problem. But, if you go all the way through you will get shards of plastic and aluminum on the back side of the collective lens which it will definitely be obtrusive.

Bill
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