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Old Thursday 14th July 2005, 19:23   #1
eteune
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juvie(?) bird, can't identify

I think this is a juvenile bird, I saw it today at lunchtime while snapping photos of a bluebird family in a forest preserve NOT using a nesting box!
Anyway, please take a look if you have a sec.
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Last edited by eteune : Thursday 14th July 2005 at 19:34.
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Old Thursday 14th July 2005, 19:26   #2
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I don't have a field guide at the moment, but I think it's a Chipping Sparrow....

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Old Thursday 14th July 2005, 19:35   #3
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yeah, that looks about right, thanks.
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Old Thursday 14th July 2005, 23:39   #4
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What about the streaking?
Savannah for me, tentatively.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 00:11   #5
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Chipping - note the rusty cap and pink bill.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 00:13   #6
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It doesn't look right for a chipping sparrow. chipping sparrows don't have streaking on the belly, and certainly not that long a bill!

resembles a vagrant Ipswich Sparrow.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 02:01   #7
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The streaking is from being a juvenile. Wrong shape and wings and tail too long for Savannah or Ipswich. Lots of Savannahs around here and I have tons of pics of them.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 02:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eteune
The streaking is from being a juvenile. Wrong shape and wings and tail too long for Savannah or Ipswich. Lots of Savannahs around here and I have tons of pics of them.
Surprised you asked for help in that case...

I was wrong about the streaking I now realise, so have learnt something today.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 06:12   #9
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OK, this Chipping Sparrow consensus has been bothering me. My problem is that I'm overrun with Chipping Sparrows. Front yard, back yard, they are everywhere, among other places in my yard, they even nest in the white cedar six feet from this keyboard, that I see when I look out the window. I've never once seen a juvenile that looks like the photos. Yes, I see the plumage resemblance. But the jizz is dead wrong, not to mention the structure, and most important of all, the bill.

I didn't want to object until I had an alternative candidate, and now I do: juvenile Dicksissel. Now, the bill is just right, and so is the jizz. My problem is that while I have seen adults, I've never seen a juvenile in person, so I'm having to go off of several less than satisfactory field guides and photos. Here is a photo, that helps, but doesn't solve everything, as the front of the bird is washed out:

http://www.capebretonbirds.ca/dickcissel8m.jpg

Note the exact match on the pinkish bill, as well as the pinkish legs that juvie Dicksissels have. What the photo doesn't show (due to lighting), is the fine streaks on the breast. A juvenile female can have no yellow in the eyebrow, but can have some chestnut in the crown that has no median stripe.

Unfortunately, this is an adult male Dickcissel with different color plumage, bill and feet color, but look at the position and the overall structure:

http://www.birddigiscoping.com/dickcissel3.jpg

Now compare to a typical genuine juvenile Chipping sparrow at the bottom right of this Cornell page, as well as the bill and structure of either of the adult photos:

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/program...g_Sparrow.html

It is a theory, I can't get definitive, but I am more comfortable with juvenile Dickcissel than juvenile Chipping Sparrow, and that is my vote.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 12:26   #10
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It was WAY too small for a Dickcissel. Smaller than a house sparrow, just the right size for a juvie chipping sparrow, or something similar. I am not totally convinced of the chipping sparrow thing either, but I saw and photographed it myself and I cannot find another candidate.
Here are just a few ok pics of juvie chipping sparrows, I will look for more, but definitely way too small for a dickcissel.

http://images.google.com/images?q=ju...ve&sa=N&tab=wi

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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 14:18   #11
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Thanks for the size information, I was never that comfortable with the Dickcissel theory, just trying to find an alternative. Because I am still convinced that there is no way that bird is a Chipping Sparrow, and the photos you link to just reinforce that. They look like Chipping Sparrows, and the subject bird does not.

A logical approach might be to say that if the bird looks similar to a juvenile Chipping Sparrow, and is of similar size, but is not a Chipping Sparrow, then it is likely another juvenile Spizella. Except with a longer tail... more slender body... somewhat longer and more pinkish bill.. with a rufous cap... a distinct line behind the eye, and thin throat stripe... that looks plain as an adult, so we don't think of it as being streaked.

This bird in other words:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tmstua...arrowJrB04.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tmstua...arrowJrB01.jpg

I'm changing my vote from exploring Dickcissel to a solid vote for juvenile Field Sparrow.

(Ironically I studied a juvenile Field Sparrow in my scope for a good five minutes last week in Southern Wisconsin, and could kick myself for not making the ID sooner. A sparrow in the path is different from a sparrow in the tree, and I don't know that I've ever looked up at a juvenile Field Sparrow before.)
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 15:48   #12
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If the crown is rufous, as it seems to be in pic 2, the combination of that, and a streaked breast would exclude a juvenile Chipping.
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/ccsp.html
Dickcissle didn´t feel right, http://www.tallgrasswise.org/Quiz/qu...-august01e.JPG
Field? Otherwise agree with Thayeri.
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Old Friday 15th July 2005, 16:12   #13
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Good work Thayeri! Yeah, I would have to go with Field Sparrow too. It's spot on with all field marks...

Mike
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Old Friday 9th August 2013, 03:38   #14
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Sorry to jump in on this thread many years after the fact, but the bird is actually a Chipping Sparrow. Field Sparrows never have a dark eyeline that extends through the lores to the bill. Instead they have pale lores and a nearly complete eyering that often shows just a small break at the rear. The extensively streaked crown is also better for Chipping Sparrow; juvenile Field Sparrows have a solidly dark crown. Although the bill does appear rather long for this bird, Chipping Sparrows are relatively long billed compared to other Spizella sparrows. Other than size, Dickcissel is wrong because they are chunky birds with relatively short tails; something this bird is not.
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Old Friday 9th August 2013, 05:22   #15
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Welcome to Birdforum jimtietz,

Seems you will tell us a lot... at least about sparrows! I cannot help with juv North American sparrows, but I found this thread interesting.

Cheers
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Old Friday 9th August 2013, 13:41   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimtietz View Post
Sorry to jump in on this thread many years after the fact, but the bird is actually a Chipping Sparrow.
Hi jimtietz,
Agree with these points.

Peter C.

P.S.: I think you may have just set some sort of record ... has any thread on this forum ever been revived after such a long time?




(Of course, now, some clever dick will probably go look for an earlier one to reply to, just to prove me wrong... )
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