[karmantra]

Went to the Optics4Birding website and noticed that they are selling refurbished 8.5x42 ELs for $1399, with a 3 year warranty. Personally I don't see the $300 savings over present pricing for a new 8.5 with lifetime warranty as worth it, but I am curious if these 'refurbished' ELs come with the slow or fast focus? Or do you just take your chances? Curious about Swaro doing the refurbished route--or is this just another way of saying 'demo' much as Leica has done in the past?

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by karmantra

Went to the Optics4Birding website and noticed that they are selling refurbished 8.5x42 ELs for $1399, with a 3 year warranty. Personally I don't see the $300 savings over present pricing for a new 8.5 with lifetime warranty as worth it, but I am curious if these 'refurbished' ELs come with the slow or fast focus? Or do you just take your chances? Curious about Swaro doing the refurbished route--or is this just another way of saying 'demo' much as Leica has done in the past?

These guys all use double-speak. What did/does Leica mean by "demo?"

[xenophobe]

Demo is used for quite a few different things I think. Some of the models are indeed trade show samples that were only used for demonstration purpose. Some companies do a lot of trade shows, I know Leica does a regular tour through the US to various camera stores and such, so any binoculars used would be sold as demos. On the other hand, I'm positive refurbished units are sold as 'demo's by many dealers as well, as one dealer I contacted said he would call Leica to see if any refurbs for a particular model were currently available.

As to whether or not they're up to par with the current new line, that's debatable.

Some of the refurbs could indeed be corrected to specs that surpass the "new" units. I'm not sure about the return rate of Leica products for factory service, but it's also likely that many new units are reserved as warranty replacements. If something goes wrong, it's likely that a refurb is sent to the customer, and the pair sent in are corrected, but can't be sold as new, so are sold as 'demos'.

So is any particular refurb within the standard acceptable QA spec that a new unit is? I would assume mostly yes. They don't want to sell a sub-par product at even reduced rates, especially if they're not marked as such, because that would be detrimental to a companies' image.

Most likely, most refurbs fall within the same spec as normal new bins, and you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between one and another unless it's sold as such, and the reason they don't give them normal "new" warranties, is so they can sell these at reduced rates.

I seriously doubt that either Leica or Swarovski would knowingly sell a refurb or demo that fails their QC. That would be detrimental to their sales and reputation, and put into question their product as a whole.

Just speculation....