[StopBirdCruelty]

Songbirds are increasingly being used in basic scientific research. Since songbirds communicate with their song, animal researchers are invasively monitoring their brain activity to investigate the basic mechanisms involved in learning to communicate. While none of these studies has any applied benifit to people, experimenters claim the studies might someday help people with communication disorders.

Most of the experiments involve brain surgery, and some lesion brain areas to see how singing ability deteriorates. Some experiments manipulate song with electric shocks directly into the birds' brains. These songbirds are kept in tiny cages, tortured, and then killed.

I've learned the US government spent 12 million dollars in 2005 funding 70 such experiments. Is anyone upset by this information? Does anyone oppose this kind of experimentation on innocent birds? Are there any bird groups that would care?

[KCFoggin]

Hello there and welcome to BirdForum from those of us on staff here.

I would like to see any documentation you have on this matter and where it came from.

[Tammie]

Like KC, I too would like to see proof and documentation of this. $12 million is an awful lot of money. Why have we never heard of this before?

[mcdowella]

I do not oppose bird experiments. I know from news services etc. that experiments on animals are only carried out after ethics comittees have evaluated what is to be gained and lost, and licenses have been applied for and so on. I can also see aspects of the care taken to learn as much as possible with as little harm as possible from information intended for scientists, for example section 4.2 of "Bird Ecology and Conservation" by Sutherford Newton and Green (a very readable compendium of research techniques for conservation, intended as technology transfer to developing countries).

In the case of neuroscience research using songbirds I am all for finding out how brains work in the hope that we will work out how to live with ourselves better, and in the hope that there will be spinoffs such as a better understanding of mechanisms attacked by stroke, Alzheimer's disease, and so on.

I can't speak for how the US spends its money but I know that research money in the UK is pretty thinly spread, with proposals marked as "very good" missing out for lack of funds. I doubt if there is much money wasted on experiments as such. I could believe money wasted going to civil servants to administer stuff. And $12 million for 70 experiments is is $170,000 a year per experiment. Take a Professor's salary out of that, with lab assistants, equipment costs, perhaps some funding for research students, and so on and it starts not to look very much.

[jurek]

I don't oppose bird experiments. They have a big potential to help people with eg. speech disorders. And are eveluated by ethical commitees.

[StopBirdCruelty]

If you go into this database and type "songbirds" a bunch of government funded studies come up. It's a bit thick, but you get the general idea. A friend of mine that does animal rights work told me about it because she knows I'm interested in birds.

http://crisp.cit.nih.gov/

[christineredgate]

All experiments on wildlife,inc monkeys,dogs,rats etc should be banned.Why not use the "lifers" for this purpose.They could be paid a small fee,and would be serving a useful purpose in life!!!

[Tyke]

" experiments on animals are only carried out after ethics comittees have evaluated what is to be gained and lost, and licenses have been applied for and so on." .....Like Huntingdon Life Sciences for example?!!



" I am all for finding out how brains work "
....which brains-and by what means?

Colin

[the bird]

Originally Posted by Tyke

" experiments on animals are only carried out after ethics comittees have evaluated what is to be gained and lost, and licenses have been applied for and so on." .....Like Huntingdon Life Sciences for example?!!



" I am all for finding out how brains work "
....which brains-and by what means?

Colin

Could not agree with you more my friend - its the 21st century and yet we are still so basic in our belief systems, our behaviour and treatment towards those less fortunate than our selves and the way we treat innocent life.

I hope in the near future, humanity matures out of its adolescence and becomes what it should be - living by what the term 'to be civilised' and the word civilisation means.


The Bird

[Mabel]

Such a touchy subject...
I personally oppose it, but I can see the potential benefits.

[Mary Evelyn]

Originally Posted by christineredgate

All experiments on wildlife,inc monkeys,dogs,rats etc should be banned.Why not use the "lifers" for this purpose.They could be paid a small fee,and would be serving a useful purpose in life!!!

With you all the way Christine.