[xenophobe]

For about a month I've been kicking around the idea of getting a 7x42 Zeiss Classic before they're completely unavailable, but the price I found for a NIB one is a bit more than I had intended on spending.... At that price I could save up a little more and get something more current. I just wanted to know how they stack up against all the newer bins...

I am a 10x person, though I want to see what the fuss all the 7x users see that I supposedly don't, and I want to do so in the field, not just looking through isles at a store or out a window.

I have viewed through them before I knew any better, i.e. through my boss's old pair, but since they're gone I can't compare them against what I currently own, but that was a while ago, and I didn't view them subjectively.

I know it's probably one of the most favorite bins of all time, but how does the venerable 7x42 Zeiss ClassiC hold up against the newer FL, ELs and Ultravids of the same magnification and objective size? Is their retirement really well deserved?

Any information and opinions would be greatly appreciated before I toss down this kind of change.

[AlanFrench]

When I was hunting for new binoculars about 5 years ago, many people told me the Ziess 7x42s were THE pair to get. I almost bought a pair sight unseen, and am glad I did not. A dealer friend brought a pair to the Northeast Astronomy Forum (Suffern, NY), and I found they were just not for me. They did not feel right in my hands, the focus was extremely stiff, they had very stiff rubber eye cups, and I did not think the optics were as good as the Swarovski 7x42 SLCs, which I wound up buying.

I certainly recommend trying them for yourself once again - you may love them.

Are you sure they are being "retired?" I heard the same thing five years ago - get them while you can, they said.

Clear skies, and good shopping, Alan

[xenophobe]

Hmm.... the 10x40 Classic is superior to the 10x42 SLC's IMO. I've never had the chance to test the FL or ELs and wonder how the Classic 7x compares.

Yes, the 7x42 Classic is not on their website, and is not available NEW from all of the online retailers I've called so far.

[AlanFrench]

Yes, it does appear that the 7x42s are unavailable. I notice that two of the mini-versions are "back," so perhaps they are not gone for good.

I'd love to try the 7x42 FLs. The wide field of the 7x42 Classics really appealed to me, and I was disappointed to find reasons not to like them.

Clear skies, Alan

[Pileatus]

Originally Posted by xenophobe

For about a month I've been kicking around the idea of getting a 7x42 Zeiss Classic before they're completely unavailable, but the price I found for a NIB one is a bit more than I had intended on spending.... At that price I could save up a little more and get something more current. I just wanted to know how they stack up against all the newer bins...

I am a 10x person, though I want to see what the fuss all the 7x users see that I supposedly don't, and I want to do so in the field, not just looking through isles at a store or out a window.

I have viewed through them before I knew any better, i.e. through my boss's old pair, but since they're gone I can't compare them against what I currently own, but that was a while ago, and I didn't view them subjectively.

I know it's probably one of the most favorite bins of all time, but how does the venerable 7x42 Zeiss ClassiC hold up against the newer FL, ELs and Ultravids of the same magnification and objective size? Is their retirement really well deserved?

Any information and opinions would be greatly appreciated before I toss down this kind of change.

Read:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....X42#post218257

The best 7X42's are:

Leica Trinovid 7X42 and Ultravid 7X42 (I've never seen one I wouldn't own)

Swarovski SLC 7X42 (be careful...I saw one that was so dark in comparison it must have been pre-Swarobright. The Swarobright models are great and I'd gladly own this binocular, though I'd be wearing a bino harness)

I picked up a Zeiss FL 7X42 a few days ago and simply said "Wow". Yes, the Zeiss image is superb.

The older Zeiss may be nice, but those stiff eyecups would kill me.

John

[razor6]

Originally Posted by Xenophobe

I know it's probably one of the most favorite bins of all time, but how does the venerable 7x42 Zeiss ClassiC hold up against the newer FL, ELs and Ultravids of the same magnification and objective size? Is their retirement really well deserved?

Any information and opinions would be greatly appreciated before I toss down this kind of change.

Xenophobe,

I can compare the older Zeiss 7x42 Classics to the newer 7x42 FLs. I have owned both, and still have the FLs. When I first got the Classics I thought they gave me the "most relaxed" view I had ever experienced. Extremely pleasing. Then I started reading about all the issues with edge sharpness with the new FLs and decided to look for it in the Classics. And you know what? The edge did degrade in the Classics. I had never noticed it in the field and only found it when veiwing sporting events and looking for it. But once I found it, I couldn't shake it. So, like a dumb**s, I sold them. Then I bought a Nikon 8x32SE based on what I read on Birdforum. And yes, as reported by so many on this forum, the SEs have the best edge performance of any bin I have ever looked through. But, that relaxed view that I loved in the Zeiss Classic was not there for me in the SEs. I experienced blackouts galore, and yes, after playing with the IP distance, I could fix that, but I had to work harder for the great view. Just not overall as pleasing a view to me. That is not to say they aren't great bins.....THEY ARE, but just not for me. So I lamented that fact that I had sold the Classics and now that they are discontinued, I was really pissed.

And I was not going to go with the FLs because of all the discussions on this board about lack of edge performance. Of course, then I realized that I bought the Nikon SEs because of the same discussions, and you know what? The SEs just didn't work FOR ME. So I decided to not base my decision on others opinions. My eyes are my eyes only, and I would decide for myself. I bought the 7x42 FLs and that "relaxed view" that I loved so much in the 7x42 Classics had returned. And you know what else? I recall the edge performance of the older Classics being a little worse than the FLs (I never had the luxury of real time side-by-side comparison). I do notice a little edge distortion, but only when looking for it (on straight lines, tall buildings, etc.). In nature it just is really not an issue for me. All in all, I would highly recommend the 7x42 FLs (even over the wonderful 7x42 Classics) to anyone who veiws the world in the same ways that my eyes do. But only you will know if that is the case. So, to each his own, and clear skys and happy birding.

Rob

[elkcub]

Rob,

Nice post! Making a purchase because of BF opinions, without actually trying the product, is really looking for trouble.

[xenophobe]

John, thanks for the link! The eyecups don't bother me one bit.

Razor, thanks for the opinions, you've pushed me more towards the classic. lol

Elk, I've tried them and briefly compared them to an 8x SL and thought the Zeiss 7x was vastly superior. I did prefer the 10x40b when I compared the two shortly before I bought my 10x Classics, really only due to magnification, but didn't subjectively compare them in the field.

I've read some great opinions here, but I always take them as such. Personal preference, not pure fact. So far I don't see much personal motivation to go with anything more than the 7x42 Classic. Price and FOV over possibly a marginally better sweet spot?

The opinion I was more looking for was... Is the retirement of the 7x42 Classic really well deserved? So far, I haven't read an arguement that it has.

[razor6]

Originally Posted by xenophobe

John, thanks for the link! The eyecups don't bother me one bit.

Razor, thanks for the opinions, you've pushed me more towards the classic. lol

Elk, I've tried them and briefly compared them to an 8x SL and thought the Zeiss 7x was vastly superior. I did prefer the 10x40b when I compared the two shortly before I bought my 10x Classics, really only due to magnification, but didn't subjectively compare them in the field.

I've read some great opinions here, but I always take them as such. Personal preference, not pure fact. So far I don't see much personal motivation to go with anything more than the 7x42 Classic. Price and FOV over possibly a marginally better sweet spot?

The opinion I was more looking for was... Is the retirement of the 7x42 Classic really well deserved? So far, I haven't read an arguement that it has.

I, for one, don't think it is well deserved. The classics will probably prove to be the most successful birding bins in history (pretty tall claim, huh?). And I regret that they will not be available as new bins. If you can find one, grab it quick and hold on tight.

[AlanFrench]

If you take a look at the specifications for the Zeiss 7x42 Classics versus the new Zeiss 7x42 FLs you can, I think, understand why Zeiss is no longer offering the Classics....

Field of view -
450 feet at 1000 yards / 149 meters at 1000 meters for both

Minimum focus
Classic 11.5 feet / 3.5 meters | FL 6.6 feet / 2.0 meters

Eye Relief
Classic 18mm | FL 16mm

Weight
Classic 28.2 ounces / 800 grams | FL 26.1 ounces / 740 grams

Diopter adjustment
Classic +/- 3.5 | FL +/- 4.0

IPD
Classic 57 to 75mm | FL 54 to 76mm

Eye Cups
Classic Stiff Rubber fold down | FL Lockable eyecup design

This is unlikely to settle an argument whether the retirement of the Classic was "deserved," but the specs, except for eye relief, are clearly in favor of the newer FL model. Of course, the specs don't say anything about the fit and feel of each in your hands, and that could well be the main factor in your choice.

As I mentioned before, I believe the mini-classics vanished from the market for a while only to return. Perhaps the same fate awaits the 7x42 Classics. Time will tell, and those of you lusting for a chance to once again buy a new pair of the 7x42 Classics should let Zeiss know that your money awaits them.

Clear skies, Alan

[razor6]

Originally Posted by AlanFrench

If you take a look at the specifications for the Zeiss 7x42 Classics versus the new Zeiss 7x42 FLs you can, I think, understand why Zeiss is no longer offering the Classics....

Field of view -
450 feet at 1000 yards / 149 meters at 1000 meters for both

Minimum focus
Classic 11.5 feet / 3.5 meters | FL 6.6 feet / 2.0 meters

Eye Relief
Classic 18mm | FL 16mm

Weight
Classic 28.2 ounces / 800 grams | FL 26.1 ounces / 740 grams

Diopter adjustment
Classic +/- 3.5 | FL +/- 4.0

IPD
Classic 57 to 75mm | FL 54 to 76mm

Eye Cups
Classic Stiff Rubber fold down | FL Lockable eyecup design

This is unlikely to settle an argument whether the retirement of the Classic was "deserved," but the specs, except for eye relief, are clearly in favor of the newer FL model. Of course, the specs don't say anything about the fit and feel of each in your hands, and that could well be the main factor in your choice.

As I mentioned before, I believe the mini-classics vanished from the market for a while only to return. Perhaps the same fate awaits the 7x42 Classics. Time will tell, and those of you lusting for a chance to once again buy a new pair of the 7x42 Classics should let Zeiss know that your money awaits them.

Clear skies, Alan

Good points, Alan. One thing I didn't mention that sways me to the FLs over the Classics, and that is minimum focus distance. I enjoy watching small animals (insects and lizards) on a large oak tree right off my front porch. The FLs allow me to do that much better than the Classics did. 1.5 meters difference! Only the user can decide whether this is important to him, though. As for fit and feel in your hand, the Classics were great for me. Some don't like it though. And the minimum IPD difference in the two may be extremely important to some people.

As always, optics present a series of compromises, so it's best to try before you buy (and make sure you buy from a seller with a good return policy just in case).

[Firenet]

Well, I just went through almost the exact same thing myself. After months of scouring every birding, hunting, and optics forum I could possibly find searching for the best all purpose binocular I settled for a new pair of 7x Classics. I love the looks and design, but in all honesty looks and design do not a great binocular make. Neither am I a binocular "expert". I know there are those contributing to BF that could probably readily discern the very small differences in binos from Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica and between the Classics and the FL and the Ultravids and the Els, but most of us probably cannot tell any discernable difference no matter how hard we try. We simply do not have either the ability, the desire, the drive or whatever to become accomplished binocular evaluators. All I know is that when I took my Classics outside and looked through them, I was like "Oh, Yeah!!!!!!". I finally got some binoculars that will be perfectly suitable for me for many years to come and I am not giving them up. As a matter of fact, I may just buy another pair "just because", so if you want a pair, you better get them before I find them because I, for one, know they are not just lying around at every optics dealer!

[postcardcv]

I have just got a pair of 7x42 ultravids and am very impressed with them.
I was looking to get new bins and after much looking I'd decided that the 8x42 ultravids were the ones for me - prefered them to the ELs, FLs, HGs... I was all set to buy a pair but then had alook through the 7x42s and was amazed. Great FOV, bright sharp image, very comfortable to use. I then tried the 7x42 FL to compare them, I though there was very little (if anything) in it optically, but I prefer the feel of the ultras so went for them. I have not tried the Classics, so can't offer a comparison, but woudl suggest that both the ultravids and the FLs are well worth a look...

[xenophobe]

Originally Posted by AlanFrench

If you take a look at the specifications for the Zeiss 7x42 Classics versus the new Zeiss 7x42 FLs you can, I think, understand why Zeiss is no longer offering the Classics....

Field of view -
450 feet at 1000 yards / 149 meters at 1000 meters for both

Minimum focus
Classic 11.5 feet / 3.5 meters | FL 6.6 feet / 2.0 meters

Eye Relief
Classic 18mm | FL 16mm

Weight
Classic 28.2 ounces / 800 grams | FL 26.1 ounces / 740 grams

Diopter adjustment
Classic +/- 3.5 | FL +/- 4.0

IPD
Classic 57 to 75mm | FL 54 to 76mm

Eye Cups
Classic Stiff Rubber fold down | FL Lockable eyecup design

This is unlikely to settle an argument whether the retirement of the Classic was "deserved," but the specs, except for eye relief, are clearly in favor of the newer FL model. Of course, the specs don't say anything about the fit and feel of each in your hands, and that could well be the main factor in your choice.

As I mentioned before, I believe the mini-classics vanished from the market for a while only to return. Perhaps the same fate awaits the 7x42 Classics. Time will tell, and those of you lusting for a chance to once again buy a new pair of the 7x42 Classics should let Zeiss know that your money awaits them.

Clear skies, Alan

At least in those stats you quote, there is nothing in there that would warrant my spending $500 more on a FL or Ultravid. That being said, if I didn't receive the deal of a lifetime on the Ultravids I bought, (oddly I just received my Passport Protection Plan card in the mail today), I wouldn't think they were $1000 better than my 10x40B's Classics which I ordered from Cabelas for $699.

I love the way the Classics feel, so I took the plunge on the pair of 7x42 at SWFA. I've called nearly two dozen distributors and dealers in the US today and couldn't find anything.

I'm hoping they'll be just as nice as I remembered them to be.

[Robert Ellis]

Here is why my goal is set on the Ultravid 7x42, maybe my train of thought will help you. The 7x ClassiC/BGAT is nice but a little awkward compared to today's roofs. The 7x FL is too big, long really, to balance well for me, the Abbe/Koenig prisms account for that. There is no EL 7x, shame that, and the 7x SLC, though amazing in the 10x iteration, is also long and quite heavy by current standards. There is no Nikon HG/LXL 7x. The Trinovid 7x is a good deal less expensive than the 7x Ultravid, but I don't care for the ribbed armor. That leaves me with the 7x Ultravid to pine after. Size and weight are definatley issues to me as I have smaller hands and some health problems that make toting a heavy bin a literal pain. If you don't mind the weight you could save some money and get an SLC, if you must have the brightest and don't mind the size you should buy the FL.

[xenophobe]

I received my 7x42 Classics today, and although the eyecups oddly are more bothersome in this binocular than my 10x40bs, the view is absolutely amazing. They're really on par with my 10x42 Ultravids visually, but brighter. I do absolutely love the 7x 450ft field of view, and edge softness isn't bad at all. CA is almost non-existant in this pair even at the edges. My Ultravids do have more noticable edge CA, but I'm aware of the magnification factor shows this more.

Well, I haven't tried a 7x SLC, but when I compared the 10x40b Dialyts and the 10x42 SLC, the 10x40Bs won. The 7x42 Dialyts are so much nicer than the 10x optically. I don't even think they're in the same league as my 10x40b's, as much as I love them. I don't know if the difference between the 7x and 10x SLCs is so dramatic, but if it isn't, then they wouldn't be able to hold much against the Zeiss 7x.

Anyways, I was looking to get a nice pair before their availability is non-existant. I'm glad I did.