[JTF]

Does anyone on this forumn one one or have owed one. Looking to buy my first scope finally upgrading from binos. See link, thanks.

http://store.yahoo.com/eagleopticsca...pspotsco2.html

[Jaeger01]

Originally Posted by JTF

Does anyone on this forumn one one or have owed one. Looking to buy my first scope finally upgrading from binos. See link, thanks.

http://store.yahoo.com/eagleopticsca...pspotsco2.html

Have had one for some time. Maybe not a Zeiss or Swarovski, but excellent scope for the price.

[Bill Atwood]

I would spend a bit more and get a pentax 80mm. A much better scope.

Or maybe look at some others in the lower price range like Celstron or Fuji.

I like Eagle Optics, but the scope is rather dismal.

[Robert Ellis]

The scope is not really that dismal. The major failing it has seems to be the zoom eyepiece which does not hold as crisp at higher magnifications. On and off EO has a fixed 30x eyepiece available. If they still do I would think the scope/fixed combo would be fine for the price.

[affe22]

Originally Posted by Bill Atwood

I would spend a bit more and get a pentax 80mm. A much better scope.

"A bit" is a bit of a understatement. That scope is over twice as much. If you decide to save the $1,000 US, just keep saving and get a Zeiss or Swavorski.

What is a scope in the $400 - $500 price range that people would suggest if not the Raven?

[Bill Atwood]

Originally Posted by affe22

"A bit" is a bit of a understatement. That scope is over twice as much. If you decide to save the $1,000 US, just keep saving and get a Zeiss or Swavorski.

What is a scope in the $400 - $500 price range that people would suggest if not the Raven?

OK, the Pentax is more than a "bit" more, but the increase in the performance/price ratio is certainly much better than that you would get by spending $1,700 for a Zeiss or $2,200 for a Swaro. If you know where to shop you can find the Pentax 80mm for a little over $800, and it is a vastly superior scope to the EO 78mm. The one I owned had 95% of the optical performance of the Swaro HD and Zeiss FL models.

I also mentioned the the Celestron and Fujinon scopes. These (80mm ED) are between the Raven and Pentax in price. I have not seen the Celestron, but have seen a couple of the Fujis. Currently Eagle Optics is running a special of the Fuji 80mm ED w/20x-60x zoom and case for $599. I would consider this a reasonable price.
Optically, the Pentax is still a better scope.

Currently I can't recommend any scope under $500. There are probably one or 2 out there that aren't too bad. The Celestron Ultima 80mm ED at $490 is probably worth a look.

I don't know what JTF can afford. If the Raven price is the limit, then it is better than no scope at all. I have seen many people try to start out birding or photography on the cheap. Almost always they were very disappointed and would of spent less total money if had got the good stuff to startoff with. Withi the last year I've had 2 acquaintances that tried to go the cheap scope route, under $400. When I showed them what a Pentax could do they immediatley purchased one. Then they were stuck with trying to sell $300 to $400 used scopes.

[Bill Atwood]

Originally Posted by Robert Ellis

The scope is not really that dismal. The major failing it has seems to be the zoom eyepiece which does not hold as crisp at higher magnifications. On and off EO has a fixed 30x eyepiece available. If they still do I would think the scope/fixed combo would be fine for the price.

OK then, its dismal with the zoom.

[KCFoggin]

The Eagle Optics Raven was my first scope and it was a dynamite scope for the money. Did notice a bit of purple fringings in some settings but that can easily be removed in an imaging software package. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for a starter and even intermediate scope.

[JTF]

Great info from all members, thanks for the input.

[karmantra]

If you could get a Fujinon Super 80 ED scope through the U.S. Eagle Optics site for $599 USD, you'd have a great setup for the $, far better than the Raven--drawback is that it only comes in a straight not angled version. The Fujinon Super 80 ED scope at $599 is the most bang for your buck at this time!

[affe22]

What if you can get the Raven for $200 and the Fujinon for $600? What would you do?

[karmantra]

Originally Posted by affe22

What if you can get the Raven for $200 and the Fujinon for $600? What would you do?

A new Raven at $200? Angled? Where? If there is such a place, let us know--be a great deal for someone on a tight budget!

[Jaeger01]

Originally Posted by JTF

Does anyone on this forumn one one or have owed one. Looking to buy my first scope finally upgrading from binos. See link, thanks.

http://store.yahoo.com/eagleopticsca...pspotsco2.html

Note that everyone who has owned or does own one thinks it's a decent scope at the price. Only the knockers don't even suggest they do or ever did own one.

Jaeger near Chicago

[DavidP]

Check out the Minox spotting scope. I managed to pick up one non ED from ebay for $300 and I've seem them online for not too much more. Seems like quite a nice view, also waterproof and very compact.

[affe22]

Originally Posted by karmantra

A new Raven at $200? Angled? Where? If there is such a place, let us know--be a great deal for someone on a tight budget!

I never said it was new, but I figured a used one in good condition is about as good as new.

[Bill Atwood]

Originally Posted by Jaeger01

Note that everyone who has owned or does own one thinks it's a decent scope at the price. Only the knockers don't even suggest they do or ever did own one.

That's because we looked before buying.





That being said, it is worth $200 if that's all you can afford. Not much potentail loss if you want to move up later.

[JTF]

Thanks.

[Robert Ellis]

Originally Posted by Jaeger01

Note that everyone who has owned or does own one thinks it's a decent scope at the price. Only the knockers don't even suggest they do or ever did own one.

Jaeger near Chicago

There is one not 15 feet from me, I use it all the time though is does not belong to me. This scope, like any in this price range, suffers at higher powers. The Raven in particular gets dim and loses resolution past 45x or so. Up to that is is a good scope. All cheaper zooms will do this, which is why I recommend getting the 30x eyepiece if available. Would JTF be dissapointed with the zoom? For the price the Raven is as good as anything, so probably not, considering they all have that drawback.

Were this scope actually mine I would have the bayonet mount machined away and redone so I could use 1.25" astronomical eyepieces. Just like in binoculars, the eyepiece, IMHO, is the most critical element.

Do I need to show a picture of me using a scope or bin to give an experienced opinion?

[Tom Bombadil]

I've looked through three different Raven scopes, once at a gathering where I could compare it to other scopes when looking at the same objects. Another time was in a shop where a resolution chart had been mounted about 200' away. All had the standard 20X-60X Zoom eyepiece. The 30X WA eyepiece has been discontinued, so it would probably be hard to find.

My impression was that it yielded relatively bright images, had decent depth of field, was easy to use, and I found it quite sharp over the 20X-40X range. On the res chart, fine lines were very sharp at 40X. From 40X-45X it was still pretty good. From 45X-50X it was a little fuzzy but still very usable. From 50X-60X it was average at best, still usable for general observation but not good on fine detail. Its field of view is pretty average, but still about the same as the Pentax 80 w/zoom. CA is slight, just a touch of fringing in tough lighting.

Eye relief was good too, better than the Nikons in that price range. I could see the full field at up to 45X and it was very close at 50X. At 60X I lost the edges. This is while wearing eyeglasses (making sure to state the obvious.)

My take is that as a 20X-40X scope, it is a very solid bargain. Indeed, I think it holds up pretty well against $1000 scopes across this range. I think most observers would find it acceptable from 40X-50X. And if your needs above 50X are not serious, then it may meet them. It certainly is better at 50X-60X than what I've seen from $200'ish scopes.

Right now EO is packaging both the straight through and angled versions with their Radian GT tripod. EO sells this tripod separately for $119, but as it is their store brand, I don't know if it is really worth that much, although it appears to be an okay tripod. So if you want a 78mm, 20X-60X, waterproof scope, with very good 20X-40X performance, with a decent tripod and nylon carrying cases for both the scope and tripod for $369/$399, this is your ticket. (I'm not affiliated with EO, I just know their prices.)

It won't make you give up your lust for a Swarovski or Leica, especially over 45X where it doesn't even begin to compete with those scopes, but at low to moderate power it is nice.

I also compared it side by side to the $199 EO 60mm Denali and the Raven was much nicer. Brighter, sharper, much more ruggedly built, and with better eye relief.

[mayoayo]

Originally Posted by affe22

"A bit" is a bit of a understatement. That scope is over twice as much. If you decide to save the $1,000 US, just keep saving and get a Zeiss or Swavorski.

What is a scope in the $400 - $500 price range that people would suggest if not the Raven?

$399 for the Raven.... For not much more i would try the Pentax PF 65 ED....im very happy with mine..The capability to use astronomy eyepiece(standard 1 1/4")is a nice added value...you can buy the body and an inexpensive eyepiece to start ,and then save some money and get a nice pentax eyepiece(dont recommend the XF zoom thopugh)or a quality zoom of the many that are these days around.I was able to upgrade my eyepiece to a swarovski 7.7-23.1 astro zoom and i dont think about getting better image any more.....i have owned decent scopes on a budget,including the burris landmark(that was mentioned by steven ingraham in an article about scopes as a great deal).ultimatelly a better scope gets more use...just like that .It worths the extra work and compromise that means to carry the extra 9 pounds(including tripod) around while birding.I carry my scope most of my birding versus my former tendency of leaving my less satisfying ones at home....

[A. Leopold]

Hi everyone,

If I could, I'd like to throw a few cents worth in. As you may know, I recently purchased an E.O. Raven with the 20x - 60x eyepiece and have used it quite a lot since I purchased it (which has only been a months). Since I live in Wisconsin, I have only been able to use it during the winter months, so the info I'm giving about my experiences really only comes from my using it during cold months (I have used on -5 degree days to 30 degree days) both cloudy and dismal and clear and sunny. First, yeah, the zoom on the eyepiece really stinks. For someone who wears eyeglasses (as I do) as you zoom in, you need to move your eye closer to the eyepiece to keep the subject in view. But on anything past 40x, you’re REALLY pressing your glasses against the eyepiece. And so I Really do not use the zoom past 40X. Second, as I would zoom in, the clarity and brightness really seemed to start diminishing. Until at 60x, unless you were looking dead center through the eyepiece, through a much smaller lens opening, (and actually at 60x I took off my glasses to press my eye socket to the eyepiece or I wouldn’t see anything) you wouldn’t see anything. Having said all of that, for a beginner scope (and I would say this is definitely a beginner scope), this is a great scope. For the money, I couldn’t have bought a better scope to learn with. At 20x to 30x, it is actually a great scope. The clarity and brightness are really pretty good. I’m not saying it compares to a Zeiss or Swarovski, but then I didn’t pay $900 to $2200 either. As I get better at my scoping techniques and understand what a scope is used for versus a set of binoculars, I will certainly upgrade in time. But as a beginner scope, this is definitely one to think about.

Also, I would not say a scope is an upgrade from as set of binoculars, really. As far as I see it, they both play equal roles and are really quite different in their uses. I use my Pentax DCF binoculars (8x42) just as much as ever, even after I received my scope. It’s all a matter of what your doing. Sorry this was so long. Thanks for you patience.

[JTF]

Thanks LEO.