[ebba]

Hi all
I had this no name scope given to me, and considering some of the discussions in the birding community I am afraid I will only have to use it at night time
My plan is to spend what I can afford on binoculars (bins? sorry but I am a Swede i.e closely related to turnip!) since my birding is mostly opportunistic. But when I got the scope I thought well rather lousy scope than no scope. Then I imagined the smirks on some people around....
I am familiar with the argument quite frequently presented here "it's not the equipment, but experience and brains that counts". Well I have none of the above
I am not sure where I am heading with this thread.... but could somebody just TELL ME to go out and enjoy my lousy scope until I can buy a good one?

[postcardcv]

I'd say make the most of what you've got - I spent a lot of years birding with low quality scopes before I finally managed to afford a really good one. Whilst you don't get as good an image, the scope you have may well let you see birds that you'd miss otherwise.

I think you are right to spend money on bins first, a good pair of bins is of more use than a good scope. But really whatever equipment you're using you should just get out there and enjoy seeing birds.

[StuartReeves]

Hi ebba,

Just go out and enjoy your lousy scope until you can buy a good one ! Bins are much more important than a scope for most birding, so you will certainly be better off spending money on a reasonable pair of binoculars. I very much doubt that people will smirk at your scope, particularly in Sweden, where there are many fewer birders than for instance the UK. Instead I suspect you will find that most people you meet will be friendly and helpful, and won't cae at all about the equipment you are using.

What part of Sweden are you in by the way ?

Stuart

[ebba]

Originally Posted by StuartReeves

Hi ebba,

Just go out and enjoy your lousy scope until you can buy a good one ! Bins are much more important than a scope for most birding, so you will certainly be better off spending money on a reasonable pair of binoculars. I very much doubt that people will smirk at your scope, particularly in Sweden, where there are many fewer birders than for instance the UK. Instead I suspect you will find that most people you meet will be friendly and helpful, and won't cae at all about the equipment you are using.

What part of Sweden are you in by the way ?

Stuart

Well it's a very small place called Aspen Island

[Corax67]

Hi ebba,

Just go ahead and use whatever you have to hand, lousy scope is still better than no scope. It will take time to build up to better kit (it took me almost 20 years).

I always upgraded my bins before my scopes as money became available since I tend to use them in the ratio 80:20.

Most of all just get out there & have fun enjoying the birds!

[StuartReeves]

Originally Posted by ebba

Well it's a very small place called Aspen Island

Interesting - I'm told it's a very nice place.

[Bluetail]

Postcardcv and the others are absolutely right. It's the birds that matter, nothing else. You will see more birds, and so get more enjoyment, with your "lousy" scope than you will without it. If it's really that bad, you'll probably find that you want to upgrade as soon as you can afford it, but never mind about that. If it's serviceable, use it! When I started birding as a kid all I had was a small, leather-covered, brass, draw-tube telescope (probably no more than 10x or 15x magnification) that the merchant navy had decided to throw away because it had dirty optics. I didn't even have binoculars. But even that old bit of equipment enabled me to see birds in a way I'd never have been able to otherwise.

[ermine]

I bought a piccolo scope for £70. Although it showed me very quickly that I wanted to go much better, it certainly was useful for giving me 3 to 4 times the range on my 8x bins. Cheap scopes lose out quickly as you try and push the zoom up - this had a range 15 to 45x. At 15to 20x it was very usable indeed, beyond 30x it wouldn't make it.

Go for it. I used this on a local twitch for a Pacific Golden Plover and nobody obviously looked down their noses. You'll see a lot more with your scope than without :)

[Rob Smallwood]

Anyone who looks down on you is a fool.

Get the best bins you can afford (in fact, like buying a house, get the best that you can't quite afford!) as overall bins will serve you better.

The hard part comes when you look through someone elses 'scope and realise that they appear to be looking at something being lit up by a film crew - then you have to get an extra job and save up for a better 'scope - but as the others say - most of us have had to work our way up through the equipment stages.

[scampo]

Originally Posted by ebba

Hi all
I had this no name scope given to me, and considering some of the discussions in the birding community I am afraid I will only have to use it at night time
My plan is to spend what I can afford on binoculars (bins? sorry but I am a Swede i.e closely related to turnip!) since my birding is mostly opportunistic. But when I got the scope I thought well rather lousy scope than no scope. Then I imagined the smirks on some people around....
I am familiar with the argument quite frequently presented here "it's not the equipment, but experience and brains that counts". Well I have none of the above
I am not sure where I am heading with this thread.... but could somebody just TELL ME to go out and enjoy my lousy scope until I can buy a good one?

Ebba

Ebba

Hi - I don't know why but Sweden always sounds so i-n-v-i-t-i-n-g!

To help you, I have a close and older birding friend who is a far, far better birder than many folk here. To give you an idea, he has kept meticulous birding records going right back to his early years in Suffolk in 1948 - yes, 1948; and his life list must be vast; he has known persoanlly, too, in his time, some of the UKs most well-known birders from Norfolk and Suffolk. Yet, all he uses presently is a low price pair of compact Nikon binoculars and a small 50mm older Opticron spotting scope with a 15-45x zoom.

I just couldn't live with that kind of kit myself now because, thanks to a small legacy, I was able to buy a pair of Swaro bins and a Zeiss scope a couple of years ago. I'm spoiled now, for ever - but, the truth is that my friend is the better birder by a very large margin. With his kit he sees all that I can see, yet he spots more than I can spot and knows far more birds than I will ever know.

I have, indeed, noticed a few sneering looks his way when he's using his less than illustrious kit. But my, when he engages folk in conversation, they soon have one or two myths dispelled. He could, as it happens, easily afford optically far better kit - but maybe he's just not as materialistic as others.

[tom24]

I too have friends like these Steve,they've birded forever,known all the masters,published papers etc..but optics are regarded as tools to merely confirm id's they've rattled off by the quickest glances.Therefore as long as the optics are half decent there's no need to pay ludicrous prices.But,as we know some of us just get smitten by the views through expensive glass.

[ebba]

Thanks lads!
...for your nice and helpful responses.
I was out and about with my lousy scope this weekend to the Swedish birder haven/mayhem called Öland.
If anyone wonders I did not twitch the Little Curlew, let's call it pride (and my family was with me and my son would probably have chased the poor thing back to Siberia).
But it was a grand day

Regarding sneering at old kit, this would never happen in the rugged diving business (where I am quite a bit more experienced) in fact the older and more worn kit the better, as long as it's safe of course.

[Quacker]

The diving kit should give you the answer to your own question. It is something you know about, and as long as it is safe to use, it can be used. As long as the optics work, they can be used.

PS can you reveal the name of these inferior optics? - you may find they are better than you'd hoped;-)

[Edward woodwood]

stick to decent bins

get a 'decent' scope when you really feel you can't do without one

using bins more will improve your field skills and id no end

Tim

[scampo]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

stick to decent bins

get a 'decent' scope when you really feel you can't do without one

using bins more will improve your field skills and id no end

Tim

Fair advice but you'd struggle to id a wader with bins, Tim - at least at our local reservoir!

[ebba]

Originally Posted by Quacker

The diving kit should give you the answer to your own question. It is something you know about, and as long as it is safe to use, it can be used. As long as the optics work, they can be used.

PS can you reveal the name of these inferior optics? - you may find they are better than you'd hoped;-)

Let me see if I can find the name... well here it is.... I-K-E-A.
No actually it has no name. The range is 15 to 60x and the image brightness is poor over 40x. But as some of you say it's better than nowt.

So combining my knowledge from the best of two worlds: I know it can be used but I am not sure it's safe

[dragon31093]

Any scope is better than no scope!

[ceasar]

Keep the scope for now. Next, make sure to get a good, sturdy tripod, like a Manfrotto 3021, if you don't already have one. And then look into getting a quality, low power eyepiece, about 20X. for your scope. A good tripod and a good eyepiece will vastly improve the performance of your scope. Check out Orion's catalog. www.telescope.com.

[Runestone]

Better to at least see something at long distance with a dodgy scope than see a little dot with your bins. My scope is pretty grim too but Im still glad Ive got it. Its over 20 years old and belonged to my late father so I often wonder what birds he saw through it. Actually he probably saw very little through it at low light....

[Terry O'Nolley]

Originally Posted by ebba

I am not sure where I am heading with this thread.... but could somebody just TELL ME to go out and enjoy my lousy scope until I can buy a good one?

I would say that if you can see distant birds better with your scope (regardless of its quality) than with your naked eye then it is obviously a benefit to your birding and you should use it.

Conversely, if you can see better with your naked eye than with your scope you should not use it.

[Richard JSH]

Originally Posted by Rob Smallwood

Anyone who looks down on you is a fool.

Get the best bins you can afford (in fact, like buying a house, get the best that you can't quite afford!) as overall bins will serve you better.

The hard part comes when you look through someone elses 'scope and realise that they appear to be looking at something being lit up by a film crew - then you have to get an extra job and save up for a better 'scope - but as the others say - most of us have had to work our way up through the equipment stages.

Hi Ebba,

Rob has a good point about the bins but don't always assume that you have to pay hundreds of pounds for a decent pair. I am currently using a pair of Bilora bins ( bought in Switzerland - German company, I think). They really are outstanding and at around 60euros ridiculously cheap. I know they are not Swarovski but they are a good start for me.

I also found it well worth trying out binoculars very carefully. I found some of the more expensive models just did not suit my eyes and I could not use them without going crosseyed!! Pick the ones that suit your eyes and your pocket.

Cheers,

Richard.

[ebba]

I found some of the more expensive models just did not suit my eyes and I could not use them without going crosseyed!!
Cheers,

Richard.[/quote]

What a smashing excuse for not buying expensive bins! Do you mind if I use it
About German Bins: I have also seen other brands e.g Soligor 8*42 roofs for around 100 Euros that actually had quite good reviews by birders, but I haven't tried them. I only know that they make low price camera lenses that are good value for money (with a drawback that theý are usually quite heavy so maybe that goes for the bins as well).

Yvonne

[ebba]

Next, make sure to get a good, sturdy tripod, like a Manfrotto 3021, if you don't already have one. And then look into getting a quality, low power eyepiece, about 20X. for your scope.

That was certainly good advice! I figured the tripod thing quite fast and used the camera tripod for the scope (it's like buying Italian designers shoes for a dolt but it works). The eyepiece thing I have yet to try (that will be like the Dolce-Gabbana glasses ).

cheers,
Yvonne

[James Blake]

I would say no scope can be better than scope if (a) you're going somewhere where you can get relatively close to most birds and (b) the weight and awkwardness of the scope and tripod mean you walk less far than you would, or stop to scan with bins less often than you would.

I have a goodish scope and a very poor one - ditto for tripods. Quite often I choose to take the poor scope and tripod because they are so much lighter - I can put both in my daypack and then enjoy a good long walk relatively unencumbered.

James

[Tero]

Originally Posted by ebba

Let me see if I can find the name... well here it is.... I-K-E-A.
No actually it has no name. The range is 15 to 60x and the image brightness is poor over 40x. But as some of you say it's better than nowt.

So combining my knowledge from the best of two worlds: I know it can be used but I am not sure it's safe

That sounds like anything costing under a thousand... local currency units. If you can get it to work at 25x, good. Make sure the tripod does not shake too much. You should get some use at the sea side or big lakes. Forget digiscoping for now.

Have fun!