[pezzer]

So I've gone ahead and purchased a pair of these to check out. I was inches from going for the Kahles 8x43 instead but the owner and a rep. at KB Cameras in Bellingham both had incredible things to say about this Minox (versus Kahles and others). Given that the Minox was slightly less ($549.00) they certainly didn't seem to have a sales agenda other than A pair of binos.

Anyone have exposure to this model and have remarks? I'll also welcome remarks on the Kahles (which I liked quite a bit in the store viewing).

[barry robson]

Can't help with the 8.5x43, but I've had a pair of Minox 10x52,s for just over a year now and have found them excellent value for money with a crisp, sharp, neutral image. I had the eye cups changed from the old plastic method of raising them to the new steel ball bearing system which made a lot of difference, as the old system was too soft and the cups were easily pushed down. I sent them to Minox in (in England) for the change over on the Tuesday and had them back by Friday - fantastic service! Only complaint is the weight - they are a bit heavy after a day up on the Fells lugging them around plus a (fab) Zeiss 65mm scope and tripod combo. But then the solid construction did mean that when I accidently dropped them onto the quarry tiled kitchen floor all they suffered was a small dent to the casing.

Minox in England (Dave Morgan, www.dave.morgan.minox.co.uk is always interested in any feedback and very helpful

Good birding

Barry

[solentbirder]

I think the current Minox range is quite under-rated. I have the 10x58 ED which I bought for astronomy and low-light use. It's very impressive with a beautiful easy view that's very natural. I'd be interested to hear what you think of the 8.5's when you've had a chance to test them (they've been hovering on the edge of my wish-list for a while !).
Good luck.

[matt green]

had a play with the 8.5's a couple of months ago at cley,they are very similar to the leica trinovid's opticly.they have an outstanding field of view and good close focus.the trouble with this price range is the close proximity of trinovid range and nikon se etc,not that i am sudgesting the minox bins are a poor substitute.handing might well be prefered in these than said leicas or nikons.

matt

[barry robson]

Interesting note re the similarity to Leica - Minox had a close tie-up with Leica until about the beginning of this year. I'm not sure what the relationship was exactly, but I believe Minox were glad when it came to an end and could go their on way.

Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?

Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?

Barry

[pezzer]

I haven't yet received my new Minox but will surely post my impression of them when they come (which should be tomorrow). I have read at least one post that laments their limited FOV at 315ft/1000. While I see that this is somewhat narrow compared to other lines, I will reserve judgment until I hold and play with this new pair. At $549.00 US they seem a very reasonable offering for a product that some feel is just a small step below a Leica. If I do not like them i will probably be sending them back in favor of a pair of Kahles 8x.

[barry robson]

Sorry - gave you wrong address for Dave Morgan at Minox UK - it should be www.dave@minoxuk.co.uk.

hope you enjoy them

cheers

B

[davem]

Barry Robson wrote:

'Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?
Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?'

well, just have to say that Dave at Minox has read this and will be 100% truthful when I say that I do not know what is happening next. Yes, I've been party to a few ideas etc but as yet no actual new product designs.

The new lightweight 'BLs' had some very good reviews in the popular birding press and the new Porros are due for review in the same magazines shortly, so with the different optical construction of Porros, we are waiting to see what the reviewers have to say. Both models had a very successful BBWF in terms of interest and sales and the Porros were given a very favourable welcome by all who tried them, the incredible depth of field being the overriding comment we received.

With reference to the 8.5x42 aspherics, I realise that the US market does have its price advantages at the moment, but am amazed that the 8.5x42s are being offered at $549.00, almost to the extent, Pezzer, that I'd be tempted to make sure that they were the newer Aspherical model you were buying and not an older non-aspherical model. For reference, the order code (on the box) for the newer aspherical model is 62124 and for the older non-asph model it's 62126.

The comparative FOV is down to the aspherical lenses used in the eyepiece construction - with most binoculars (unless you're going for the very top-end models such as Leica or Swarovski which eliminate this with highest quality glass, prisms and multi-coatings on all surfaces) you will experience some distortion to the edges of the FOV (barrelling). While giving the impression of a large field of view, this area is largely useless as it is out of focus by some degree. Aspheric lenses have been used in camera lenses for many years and now their use in the binoculars enables us to give a flat-field view and cut down this edge distortion by about 68% so you get 68% of this previously distorted area now in focus. The remaining 32% which would still be out of focus to some extent is removed and thus cuts down slightly on the FOV.

This is shown in diagramatic form on www.minoxuk.co.uk on the aspherics page.

I've got this thread updated via my email notification, so I'll keep an eye out in case anyone wants to know anything else about the product range and its specifics or where to see / try it in the UK.

ATVB,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk

[pezzer]

Originally Posted by davem

Barry Robson wrote:

'Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?
Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?'

well, just have to say that Dave at Minox has read this and will be 100% truthful when I say that I do not know what is happening next. Yes, I've been party to a few ideas etc but as yet no actual new product designs.

The new lightweight 'BLs' had some very good reviews in the popular birding press and the new Porros are due for review in the same magazines shortly, so with the different optical construction of Porros, we are waiting to see what the reviewers have to say. Both models had a very successful BBWF in terms of interest and sales and the Porros were given a very favourable welcome by all who tried them, the incredible depth of field being the overriding comment we received.

With reference to the 8.5x42 aspherics, I realise that the US market does have its price advantages at the moment, but am amazed that the 8.5x42s are being offered at $549.00, almost to the extent, Pezzer, that I'd be tempted to make sure that they were the newer Aspherical model you were buying and not an older non-aspherical model. For reference, the order code (on the box) for the newer aspherical model is 62124 and for the older non-asph model it's 62126.

The comparative FOV is down to the aspherical lenses used in the eyepiece construction - with most binoculars (unless you're going for the very top-end models such as Leica or Swarovski which eliminate this with highest quality glass, prisms and multi-coatings on all surfaces) you will experience some distortion to the edges of the FOV (barrelling). While giving the impression of a large field of view, this area is largely useless as it is out of focus by some degree. Aspheric lenses have been used in camera lenses for many years and now their use in the binoculars enables us to give a flat-field view and cut down this edge distortion by about 68% so you get 68% of this previously distorted area now in focus. The remaining 32% which would still be out of focus to some extent is removed and thus cuts down slightly on the FOV.

This is shown in diagramatic form on www.minoxuk.co.uk on the aspherics page.

I've got this thread updated via my email notification, so I'll keep an eye out in case anyone wants to know anything else about the product range and its specifics or where to see / try it in the UK.

ATVB,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk

I am quite sure that I'm getting the aspherical Minox. I ordered from KB Camera out of Bellingham, Washington. They had the best price. I will check on arrival of the binos today to be sure that I am getting what I expect. More anon...

[barry robson]

Dave is being modest when he says the BLs had some good reviews - The editor of 'Birdwatching' magazine 'was taken aback at how modest the cost was' for the 8x42 and went on to say:
'In daylight the multicoated lenses deliver a lovely natural image and contrast was excellent. In dark understorey they were more than a match for some mid priced models in terms of resolution and brightness. Happily the Minox team have opted for a simple, modern straightforward shape that seemed immediately comfortable in the hand'.

A question for Dave:
Would it be possible to use the polycarbonate barrels used in the BL's in the top of the range models to produce a lighter bin but with the high quality optical performance we love in our aspheric BD/BR's?

Barry

[ranburr]

I have the Kahles in 10x42 and I bought the Minox 10x42s for my best friend of 30+ years. There is virtually no difference in the two except the $50.00 more that the Kahles cost. Both are as good as anything that you can get without spending well over $1,000.00. The one area that the Kahles has a slight edge is in low-light performance. You can still identify targets with the Kahles about ten minutes after the Minox gives out. Not really enough of an issue to worry about. Bottom line, I would not have bought them for my buddy if I they were not of great quality.

ranburr

[barry robson]

Interesting comments and I whole heartedly agrre with the optical quality comments. Also, I have tried Swaros and Leicas and was unhappy with the focus mechanism on both, particularly the Leica - very lumpy and not what I expected from a £900+ bino.

re the light issue, perhaps you should have given the 10x52s a whirl?

A thought - why do all magazines revue 8x models and completey ignore 10x - most Birders I know use 10x

Cheers

B

[pezzer]

Well I got the Minox in yesterday and I'm impressed. Bear in mind that I've been using 8x42 Swift Ultralights for the last 10 years. The Minox balance well in my hands and the image is spectacular. The Chestnut-backed Chickadees that are swarming at our feeder now are glorious. As far as a more restricted field of view I just don't know that I will have a significant issue with this -- most of my birding is spotting particular targets and locking in.

A couple of points: reviewers often subtract pointes from binos that lack a locking diopter and the twist up eye cups with detents. These Minox have neither of these features and I'm not really bothered. I would like to see the eye cups click into the fully extended mode or into the fully collapsed mode, but this is a minor quibble. Also, the objective lens covers seem to have no method of attachment to the barrels when not in use and therefore may become easily lost. Is the thought that they are just not generally used much except when storing the binos? Anyone have a tip on how they manage that one?

Dave from Minox UK expressed some skepticism that I was actually receiving the Asphericals for the $549 price. I can now say with complete confidence that I have indeed received a brand new pair of BR Asphericals for that price and that the customer service was excellent. KB Camera in Washington state.

Final note -- my wife thinks the bins are heavy. I think they feel solid. If I was traveling extra light (backpacking) I might think twice about toting them along but I'd feel that way about virtually any 8 or 10x product. Anyone have a suggestion on a stellar and reasonably priced travel bino?

Cheers.

[barry robson]

I'm in two minds about the weight issue - you're right they feel solid and that you could knock nails in with them, this doesn't make me feel too guilty about the heavy use mine get but as I said in my first posting, after a 10-12 mile hike over the fells lugging the scope, tripod and 10x52 bins I begin to feel that anything that would reduce the weight of the kit would be useful - but still a great bin…

B

[pezzer]

Originally Posted by barry robson

I'm in two minds about the weight issue - you're right they feel solid and that you could knock nails in with them, this doesn't make me feel too guilty about the heavy use mine get but as I said in my first posting, after a 10-12 mile hike over the fells lugging the scope, tripod and 10x52 bins I begin to feel that anything that would reduce the weight of the kit would be useful - but still a great bin…

B

I'm going to try out some different strap options and see if a wider/spiffier strap doesn't cut down on neck fatigue. Do your eye cups twist and lock into place or do they simply twist up or down?

[ranburr]

Originally Posted by barry robson

re the light issue, perhaps you should have given the 10x52s a whirl? A thought - why do all magazines revue 8x models and completey ignore 10x - most Birders I know use 10x

Cheers
B

We wanted to do an apples to apples comparison of the binos. Thus a 10x42 vs a 10x42. Incidentally, we also used Docter 10x42s, and Pentax SP 10x43s in these informal evaluations. Pezzer, go to your local Walmart and purchase yourself a Bino Suspender from "Crooked Horn Outfitters". This will be the best $20.00 that you can spend. You will experience zero neck strain with these and your binos are always available for immediate use.

ranburr

[pezzer]

Originally Posted by ranburr

We wanted to do an apples to apples comparison of the binos. Thus a 10x42 vs a 10x42. Incidentally, we also used Docter 10x42s, and Pentax SP 10x43s in these informal evaluations. Pezzer, go to your local Walmart and purchase yourself a Bino Suspender from "Crooked Horn Outfitters". This will be the best $20.00 that you can spend. You will experience zero neck strain with these and your binos are always available for immediate use.

ranburr

Thanks for the tip!

[barry robson]

Hi Pezzer & Ranburr

Don' have a 'Crooked Horn Outfitter' over here - will look out for one on my next trip to your Fab country (did Washington/Oregon/California this year over a 4 week driving trip).

My bins have twist up mechanism that stays in place beautifully. They originally fittedv with a plastic mechanism that was a real pain - too soft and kept pushing down, but Minox replaced them with the new stiffer system (in 4 days including post!) free of charge and its made a world of difference.

Cheers

B

[ranburr]

Barry, you can buy the bino suspenders direct at www.crookedhorn.com

ranburr

[pezzer]

Originally Posted by barry robson

Hi Pezzer & Ranburr

Don' have a 'Crooked Horn Outfitter' over here - will look out for one on my next trip to your Fab country (did Washington/Oregon/California this year over a 4 week driving trip).

My bins have twist up mechanism that stays in place beautifully. They originally fittedv with a plastic mechanism that was a real pain - too soft and kept pushing down, but Minox replaced them with the new stiffer system (in 4 days including post!) free of charge and its made a world of difference.

Cheers

B

Hi Barry: I'm not sure if my new Minox come with the plastic mechanism you mention or the stiffer version. I do wish that the eye cups had the detents as they rotate out similar to the Pentax DCF-SP. I do find that with repeated placement of the rain cover the eye cups can shift downwards. Having just gotten the binos I'm hesitant to send them off to Germany or wherever just yet! I like them very much and yet I'm still wondering how much I might be missing by having a field of view of 315 feet. I am also wondering why the objective lens covers do not have a decent method of attachment to the barrels. i've put mine in the shipping box for safe keeping as they seem easily lost. Does that jive with your experience?

I feel fortunate to live in Oregon -- just got a report tonight from our local hawk migration and banding station on Mt. Hood and the fellow in charge uo there reported catching a second year Bald Eagle that initially went for the pigeon lure (and made contact) and then was caught in a mist net. This is only the 3rd bald eagle caught at a Hawkwatch International site in the last 20 plus years! When I worked at the site we caught Goldens, but NEVER had a go at a Bald. Unbelievable!!

[solentbirder]

I'd forget about the objective caps if I were you. In fact I've never used them on any binoculars - just something else to delay you spotting a bird.
Regarding the eyecups, on my 10x58 they have a click stop at fully retracted, fully extended + two positions in between, which I find very useful. Pity this isn't used on the smaller binoculars.

Regarding field of view, I find that if binoculars have a good APPARENT field of view, then the REAL field of view (e.g. 315ft at 1000yds) doesn't bother me too much. On the other hand I find a small apparent field of view quite annoying, regardless of the real angular field of view.

Be interested to hear how you rate the apparent field of view on the 8.5's.
Minox don't seem to publish these figures (wish they would !).

Happy viewing !

[davem]

Good morning All,

I'm now back from Germany and have answers or at least suggestions to all points raised over the past few days...

Weight is a prime consideration (compared with the current Aspheric range) for anything currently on the drawing board and we know that this feature will be a priority with any future models.

Objective lens covers are largely useless in everyday life/use, rainguards are easy to flip off the eyepieces but objective lens covers are just a pain, but from what I can gather most users save them for protection while they are in the case and not being used.

If you want a better strap with the Minox bins or ANY pair of bins / camera etc etc, then the Op/Tech range of straps and harnesses - quite simply excellent quality and a range to suit everyone - www.optechusa.com then Newpro in the UK can either supply, or direct you to a local dealer if you're in the UK. EZ-strap or even the Super Classic Strap are what sells over here for bins and further to that, the harnesses are available in either webbing or an elasticated material.

The new eyecups on the aspherics should simply slide/rotate and stay in place - there is no actual 'click' felt at the top or bottom - if your bins do this then you have the older style eyecups - an easy way to tell - if you fully extend the eyecups and can see 3 sets of 2 parallel plastic grooves running from top to bottom at an angle then you have the older style.

As for the FOV of the bins, please have a look at the PDF file on the minox website under the aspherics section, this gives full technical details but these are ALL lab tested - hence the close focussing of the binoculars is somewhat overstated.

TTFN,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk

[barry robson]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the info Dave, I will look out for an Optech supplier.
Pezzer, forget the objective lens covers more trouble than they are worth but I really don't have a problem with the eye cups - they stay in the full up position and with the amount of rain we have had up here recently, they have been off and on my bins like yo-yo's. FOV I have no idea what it is, but I'm used to it now. Saw loads of Bald Eagles up in the Olympic National Park and along that coast - in fact had 6 in one tree- of all different ages and one outside our motel room in Port Townsend WA - fantastic!

Cheers you all

B

[solentbirder]

Originally Posted by barry robson

....I will look out for an Optech supplier...
B

You can get Optech straps form Warehouseexpress.com .

[barry robson]

Thanks for that Solentbirder, but I'd like to try before I buy.
The weight is not a major problem unless I've been on a bit of a hike. If I'm out for the day on the fells I've got a small rucksack with sketchbook, paints, flask and sarnies, plus the 65mm scope and tripod AND the bins, so I don't want anything too restrictive (as the Optech harness looks - does it go over or under your anorak?) so I'll look in to what's around.

Cheers

B