[Rasmus Boegh]

Two different Accipiter's posted by different photographers, though both from the island of Sulawesi, Indonesia:

1) http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...p/photo/67169/

2) http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...p/photo/70561/

Anybody with an opinion about the ID of these two? I think I have a fairly good idea about the ID's, but would prefer additional input, not at least because I have absolutely no experiance with the Sulawesi endemics. Possibilities for this island are:

Sulawesi Goshawk (A. griseiceps).
Chinese Goshawk (A. soloensis).
Spot-tailed Goshawk (A. trinotatus).
Japanese Goshawk (A. gularis).
Small (aka Sulawesi Dwarf) Sparrowhawk (A. nanus).
Vinous-breasted Sparrowhawk (A. rhodogaster).

[JANJ]

Hi Rasmus,
immediate reaction, this time, on pic.1 is soloensis, which I think is a perfect match, with is´s black-tipped primaries and wing formula, with 4 spr. primaries, 6 in gularis (I think), but unsure about nanus, which according to "Raptors of the World" does seem to have a moore rounded wing, and not black-tipped primaries, if that can be trusted?
Same with griseiceps and rhodogaster, in the same book, which is the only ref. I can come up with, concerning these and according to that book there´s no match.
Though trinotatus, with it´s black (dark)-tipped primaries, but rounded wing tip, no match either.
So, if the book can be trusted, soloensis is the bird!
Well, you knew all that Rasmus.
JanJ

[Rasmus Boegh]

Jan, thanks for the comments. You're completely right on the flying individual - the pattern is striking and I know it well from various parts of SE Asia where I've seen big flocks flying over during migration. It's a sub-ad. Chinese Goshawk (or Chinese Sparrowhawk, as it is frequently known; A. soloensis), not much to discuss there. No-one feel like commenting on the ID of the somewhat harder perched individual...?

[cuckooroller]

Rasmus,
I'll take a stab at the perched bird (though incomplete) just because I don't care if I make mistakes as long as I learn. At a first cursory look I thought both were soloensis. Looking better at the second I see that it is not, cere color, too many ventral retrical transverse bars, etc. The bird would appear to be an adult male whatever it is. It would not appear to be nanus for the appearance of the undertail and lower belly color, also nanus would generally appear to be more a more compact bird. I can't absolutely eliminate griseiceps for which I have only one photo of a female or immature bird, however, this photo would not appear to demonstrate the presence of the yellow eyelid that I seem to see here. I do not have the slightest idea of what Accipiter trinotatus looks like but, since the original ID was for this bird, and since I do not think you are completely off your rocker, I will make the presumption that you have excluded it, how's that for skirting the issue! It might be rhodogaster for the appearance of the undertail though from the lousy skin photos that I have for this bird it would appear that the color of the wings (from what I can see at least) is more brownish, and also it would appear that the rufous wash of the lower belly extends further down onto the vent. Therefore, from my admittedly lacunar resources and guessing therefore, I would tend to think this might be Accipiter gularis.

[Rasmus Boegh]

Steve, largely we agree, though I may have reaches some conclusions in a different way. Anyway, my comments on the bird on the second photo:

First, the distinctive Sulawesi Goshawk (A. griseiceps) is easily excluded; in all plumages it looks very different from the bird on the photo. Spot-tailed (A. trinotatus) & Small (A. nanus) are very similar to each other, main difference being that the former has, as suggested in its name, two or three rather distinct white spots in the tail. As adults, neither has bars on the tail when seen from below. Imm. Small has clear bars in the tail (also from below) and one could argue the bird on the photo was a sub-adult that had retained these - if it hadn't been for the slight barring on the lower chest. There are not any bars on the chest/belly in *any* plumage of Small. The same can be said about Spot-tailed. Vinous-breasted (A. rhodogaster) has a tail pattern that looks pretty identical to the pattern on the individual on the photo, but, regardless of age, it doesn't have any barring on the chest/belly either. Males Japanese (A. gularis) & Chinese (A. soloensis) can be excluded by (among others) the yellow eyes of the individual on the photo, while the female Japanese has far more distinct barring below. Hence, that leaves female/sub-ad./imm. Chinese and sub-ad./imm. Japanese as possibilities. Using the features also mentioned by Steve (cuckooroller) in the previous post I would say it probably is a Japanese rather than Chinese, but the problem is that I have some doubts in the reliability of these features when it comes to imm's and in particular sub-adults...

[JANJ]

Rasmus,
this looks like a soloensis, but I wonder if it´s a female (barring on primaries) or a younger male (yellow eyes)
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1078294242
JanJ

[Rasmus Boegh]

Hi Jan,

Given the amount of rufous-buff on both the underwing coverts and the chest I'd be inclined to say it is a sub-ad. female (hence the slight barring on the primaries). Furthermore, the dark(ish) orange-brown eyes of the males are developed before they reach the plumage shown on the photo you linked to. Males have the dark eyes already at 1st summer. Here's a link to a 1st summer male (with a slight rufous-buff wash to the chest and remains of the broad juv. barring on the belly):

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/se...ID=&pagesize=1

Rasmus