[Tero]

I have pretty much what I need for routine birding, but I always shop a bit.

My local sports store had some Zeiss lower end models. Very nice, bright roof prisms. They were even on sale, but none were really set up with eye glasses. They had the rubber cups.

There were Nikon Monarchs and a few other roof prisms of that sort. I was sort of surprised the store quit carrying the Sporters. Is Nikon phasing them out? I had planned to get them in 8x36 as well, and they are available on line.

I looked at some 10x50s. I did not like the Nikon Actions, though the Action EXs would have been OK. Most 10x50 porros they had focused only to some 8-10m. I have a 8x pair of Action EXs, I like those for the wide field, and they are fairly bright.

Bushnell 10x pairs were some odd roof prism models, 10x40 and 10x27. The smaller one was almost as good as the bigger.

This was all inside the store, I was looking at shoes on a wall 100m away!

In the last week, saw the Swift Audubon porros, 8.5x44. They were beautiful, and the new model has nice eye cups. I was quite interested in them, but now I am thinking the porros are not all that rugged.

I came home mostly cured, I realize I have two fairly useable pairs, and a cheap 10x50 I sometimes use, which is much better than the lowest price Bushnell.

Your Binocular Experience this week?

[Chris Oates]

If you like the Swift porros have a look at the Swift 828 HHS 8.5x44 roofs
19mm eye relief for us specs wearers, excellent dioptre adjustment, glorious view - I don't feel jealous of anyone.

[Tero]

Sure, I will. I only found one Swift roof prism model, a smaller one, so far. It was pretty good. Better than my Sporters. Will get to eagle Optics maybe in the spring, in person.

[FrankD]

Sorry Tero, nothing new this week for me. I am still experimenting with the different Nikons in my stable. I am trying to find an E series model either "locally" or on the net. Haven't had much luck yet.

[ceasar]

Well Tero, I have something new. Like Frank, I've been experimenting with my Nikons. I have both model EII's and I've been comparing them to my old model trinovids, My Eagle 6 and 10 x 32's and my Swift 8.5 x 44 porro's. Then I got an idea to compare them with a Nikon Roof Prism, so I got myself for christmas a Nikon 8 x 32 LXL. They arrived about a week ago, in time for the bad weather here. I can't go into details at this time but I can mention that they are holding up, optically speaking, very well when compared with the 8 x 30 EII's. One thing I noticed very early is that the image given by the LXL's is noticably larger than the one given in the EII's. I believe the reason for this was discussed in another earlier forum by Henry Link, but I can't remember why it is so.

Anyway, when I have vetted them out, I'll have a report on them.

Bob

[FrankD]

One thing I noticed very early is that the image given by the LXL's is noticably larger than the one given in the EII's.

I know it was discussed previously as well but I just wanted to say that it is very easy to notice if you have the porros and roofs side by side. I was tinkering with the SEs EIIs and LXs just this afternoon and it continues to surprise me just how noticeable that effect is. Where did you get the LXLs from ceasar?

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by FrankD

I know it was discussed previously as well but I just wanted to say that it is very easy to notice if you have the porros and roofs side by side. I was tinkering with the SEs EIIs and LXs just this afternoon and it continues to surprise me just how noticeable that effect is. Where did you get the LXLs from ceasar?

Eagle Optics. They are polite, patient, knowledgeable, helpful and fast.
Bob

[Tero]

Stopped by camera store
http://www.cccamera.com/products.html
thry were not too terribly pushy. Mostly Nikons and Pentax's. The ProMaster roof prisms at $200 were surprisingly good, 10x45 with a fairly wide view. It is some wstore brand for a number of camera stores. Not sure who really makes them.

One Nikon pair of Porros, 8x36 or so were $500. SOME BETTER GLASS AND COATINGS, BUT I'M NOT PAYING THAT MUCH FOR porros with rubber fold down eye cups. The Action 7X35s are almost as good in the field as far as I'm concerned. Only the 8x40 Nikon Porros I have already have impressed me so far in 8x porros of medium price up to several hundred.

The Swift Audubon 8.5x44 roofs are not at all in my town.

Nikon Roof Prism, so I got myself fo.r christmas a Nikon 8 x 32 LXL.

I did actually have some 8x36s in my hand today, possibly Pentax, that were pretty wide, much wider FOV than my Sporters. I had to pass, not really needed, I have that use covered.

Here are some of the Promasters
http://www.promaster.com/products/pr...D=1&sm=sm2_601
http://www.helixphoto.com/binoculars...masterbino.htm

They are not fancy, but better than the Wal Mart Bushnells for sure, and some thought went into all the features. The glass is coated in some..maybe all.. models:

Every optical glass surface is fully broadband multicoated. This is not true of many far more expensive binoculars. The prisms are specially selected BAK-4 glass that has been silver coated for the maximum light transmission. The ocular of every model has the maximum eye relief possible. This enhances the brightness and viewing ease. In addition, they all feature twist up eyecups for maximum ease of use. Every Infinity model has been designed with an extra wide field of view so that your customers will never miss the action.

In particular, I think the Promaster 10x45 roof prisms compare favorably with Nikon Monarch and cost less. Warranty is supposed to be good.

[ceasar]

Tero,
Nikon 8 x 36 porro's for $500.00 bucks? Are you sure they weren't 8 x 32 Superior E's? If so, you should have tried them out and seen what the view from a great binocular looks like! $500.00 is their usual list price.
Bob











Bob

[Tero]

I think so, they were Es. I kind of gave up testing at that point as the sun had gone down. I tried the view across the store. It was pretty clear, but as I said the hand feel and the eye cups surprised me.

The overall look matched these
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp...urch=1&pid=782
but have they redesigned the the cups? I may have loked at an older version.

[ceasar]

Those are the one's. They have rubber eyecups which really aren't bad. I used them for 15 years on my Leica Trinovids and recently replaced them for $25.00, but those are Leica prices. I understand Nikon's replacements cost $3.00. Anyway, next time you get a chance spend a bit of time checking them out and check out their big brother, the 10 x 42 SE. They are the best porros made. Try to get outside when you vet them out instead of staying in the store.
Bob

[Tero]

Nikon 10 x 42 SE

Sounds like the thing for me. Someone can give them to me as gift when I turn 55. In three years.

[Tero]

So much for binocular shopping. I may have to wait a few months. Just replaced my tripod. My old one had too much play. This one is not fancy, but a step in the right direction. Should cover me for a year or two. Or five. I don't see upgrading the scope before that.

[Tero]

I've borrowed my wife's Minolta Compact II pocket porros, 10x25. I put them to the test looking for an eagle that has spent weeks across our big river. I found the brown blob in the tree. It took a while to convince myself it had a white head. I know the Bushnell Trophys, 8x25, I use on casual walks would not have worked.

Found another flying Bald Eagle no problem, but no white head on that.

I guess I need better compacts. The IN CAR bins I have do work, but too big to carry on nonbirding walks.

[FrankD]

Tero,

Speaking of new compacts, have you been following the discussion on the Nikon Sportstars over in the main binoculars forum? Worthy of consideration especially considering the price.

[Tero]

Yes, and just as it comes up, there does not seem to be a pair in town. We have a Cabela's moving in, though. I like REI for outdoor stuff, but they have like 3 models of odd binoculars.

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by ceasar

...
One thing I noticed very early is that the image given by the LXL's is noticably larger than the one given in the EII's. I believe the reason for this was discussed in another earlier forum by Henry Link, but I can't remember why it is so.
Bob

Bob,

The larger apparent image of the roof LXL is due to an increased magnification without any corresponding increase in the stereo base (i.e., the distance between the objectives). The brain compensates by behaving as if you were closer to the subject. But, keep in mind that it's only a perception and has nothing to do with the ability to see detail.

Ed

[Tero]

Ok, now I don't need the compacts so bad. I guess I would like some small bright 10x pair eventually, but I seem to have two of these Minoltas. One we got from an insurance company as replacement for pocket bins stolen, along with the camera in whose bag they were. Both are 25mm porros, one is 8x and one 10x. As the 10x was not too terribly dim, I am trying them for a while. I can switch to 8x if needed. My wife uses these once in a while, but does not care which.

I got the extra pair when we went to look at eagles once and we did not all have a pair. Found them marked down to $25.

Had a chance to see the one remaining eagle on the river. Had with me 3 cheapos. Bushnell 7-15x porro zooms, used at 15x, ancient Bushnell 12x roof prisms, Minolta Compact II 10X porros. The Minoltas were the only ones that worked 500-600m away, across the river. The zooms did give me a decent view and even a tiny white head at 7x.

[Drummer]

I've really been interested in the new Vortex/Stokes 8X42s. I've seen and handled one pair and was very impressed. Some folks are thinking it may be the best glass out there under $1,000 U.S.

Anyone have an opinion?

[Tero]

Looks pretty good from the specifications
http://www.optics4birding.com/vortex...8x42-9143.html

not sure if it priced right, but you will have to decide. The weight is a bit high, should be about 20-23 oz for a 8x42 if I were to go by weight alone.

[Tero]

Have been having a slight eye problem lately. I have a left dominant eye, so focusing with the left is fine and even if the right is not quite on the mark, I do not always adjust the diopter for every bird. But, if I do, I adjust that separately for the right eye. Then I look agian, with both eyes. Soemething is still not right, so I refocus. There never seems to be a perfect focus setting for both eyes. Looking with just one eye, there is. It is not so bad in bright light, but on cloudy days. And I do not have any easier time with close objects with 8x than 10x. Far away objects are fine.

Is there something funny with my eyes?

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by Tero

Have been having a slight eye problem lately. I have a left dominant eye, so focusing with the left is fine and even if the right is not quite on the mark, I do not always adjust the diopter for every bird. But, if I do, I adjust that separately for the right eye. Then I look agian, with both eyes. Soemething is still not right, so I refocus. There never seems to be a perfect focus setting for both eyes. Looking with just one eye, there is. It is not so bad in bright light, but on cloudy days. And I do not have any easier time with close objects with 8x than 10x. Far away objects are fine.

Is there something funny with my eyes?

Tero, have you tried to find out when you have this problem. I notice I have more problems focussing them both when my eyes are tired. (That does not necessarily mean I am tired as a person, but I have strained the eyes a lot.) I had been told by an optician that I have what he called slight hidden cross-eyes. Normally my brain compensates for that and all is fine, but when the eyes (or that part of the brain) are tired, I have problems focussing both eyes. To me, it usually does not show up when I use binoculars, but when I am reading, which, of course, also means being in the close range where it all is more critical.

[Tero]

Thanks, sounds a bit similar. Duh, the brain, of course, it must be the brain. It is not a constant effect, just like you described, depends on when.

[trashbird]

These are interesting binocular ramblings. I have some eye problems myself. Most notably, my eyes are not properly "collimated". An optometrist verified this and recommended adding a prism to my prescription, but I didn;t like it because it made my eyes feel weird. So I never got that done on any glasses since then. So basically, since my eyes are not properly aligned, I have some problems drawing the binocular images together into one image. This is especially noticable from 10 ft. in, and in binoculars that have wide spaced objectives -- like porros. Even full sized roof prism models do this to me. The only binocular not to do it are the B&L Custom Compact 7x36 and the Pentax Papilios. Both of these are reverse porro designs that have very close set objectives. Plus the Papilios have convergent objectives that narrow down with close focusing. To tell you the truth, I am thinking of returning the Alpen Apex 8x42s I purchased recently because I am getting slightly dual image from 10 ft in -- plus, the IPD is barely adequate. I can see just about everything I want with the Custom Compacts. They have 26mm objectives but seem as bright as any full-size bincular except when twilght approaches. They have very good optics, a relatively wide field and sharp images out to the edge. They focus down to 7 ft. They need to be treated more gently than a fully armored waterproof roof, but the benefits seem to outweigh the advantages of a roof prism I can afford.

Rambling on, I have a theory that if you experiment with any binocular, you are going to start seeing little things wrong with it. You might start having some nagging doubts that you need a better bin. Yet whenever I have been actually out birding with any decent binocular, I have paid much less attention to the binocular and much more to the birds. Most of us like to take out our binocs and fondle them and look at things across the room, read the contents list from cereal boxes, and look at mountains to see what the resolution is like and so forth, but I think it might be asking for trouble if I do this too much.

[Sancho]

Well said, Trashbird. I think we're all victims of the Great Marketing Con, as much with our bins as with our cars, freezers, PC's, shoes etc. One used to say "hey, I'm out watching birds, having a great time. For this I use my binoculars". Now we say "hey, I'm out birding, but I'm not completely satisfied, because I feel my bins might not be perfect in all respects, and there may be a better pair out there on a website/in a store/etc.". And the con is, as there's an ever-increasing range of similar products out there all infitesimally differentiated, of course the pair we have aren't absolutely perfect, because, as you say, if you fiddle with your bins for long enough, you'll find something about them that may be improved on an alternative pair. I'm not preaching, I've been daft enough to spend a small fortune on bins, and have now got two pairs of top-ends which are far more than anyone really needs, and which I certainly didn't need. The birds remain the same. So now I merely laugh at myself, resolve not to spend anymore hard-earned moo-lah on unnecessary optics, and enjoy the birds. Off to try and find a reported Laughing Gull this weekend. We don't get a lot of them in Ireland. Can't wait.