[boznia]

I am just starting a new garden and am wanting to plant a tree which will attract birds. Everybody suggests Rowan, but even this may be a bit too big for my small garden.

I am considering an apple or crab apple tree, can anyone suggest a particular variety?

or is there another small fruit tree I should consider?

I also have a couple of small children so need to consider them into the equation.

Hope you can help,

Ben

[lvn600]

I'm not sure which variety but I would think the ones with smaller fruit would be better. I've seen crabapples with pea-sized fruit versus grape-sized fruit.

[d.steeley]

Originally Posted by boznia

I am just starting a new garden and am wanting to plant a tree which will attract birds. Everybody suggests Rowan, but even this may be a bit too big for my small garden.

I am considering an apple or crab apple tree, can anyone suggest a particular variety?

or is there another small fruit tree I should consider?

I also have a couple of small children so need to consider them into the equation.

Hope you can help,

Ben

Hi Ben, one of my favourite small trees is Amelanchier lamarckii. It is available as a large shrub or tree so buy it as a tree from your local garden centre if they have one. You will be repaid with wonderful white flowers in spring followed by bright green foliage followed by small dark hawthorn sized berries which the birds love and then superb autumn colour. Be sure only to buy this one and not one that has an extra name or a different second name, no matter what they tell you is just as good at the nursery/G Centre. You may have a bit of a time hunting one down but it is better to do this than accept a substitute.

Dave

[boznia]

Originally Posted by d.steeley

Hi Ben, one of my favourite small trees is Amelanchier lamarckii. It is available as a large shrub or tree so buy it as a tree from your local garden centre if they have one. You will be repaid with wonderful white flowers in spring followed by bright green foliage followed by small dark hawthorn sized berries which the birds love and then superb autumn colour. Be sure only to buy this one and not one that has an extra name or a different second name, no matter what they tell you is just as good at the nursery/G Centre. You may have a bit of a time hunting one down but it is better to do this than accept a substitute.

Dave

I am off on half term next week, so will have a hunt around for one, how large does it grow?

I am looking at a semi-dwarf apple along with a crab apple for pollination and birds too. I am not sure how big crab apple trees grow though.

Thanks for your help.

[Isurus]

Originally Posted by d.steeley

Hi Ben, one of my favourite small trees is Amelanchier lamarckii. It is available as a large shrub or tree so buy it as a tree from your local garden centre if they have one. You will be repaid with wonderful white flowers in spring followed by bright green foliage followed by small dark hawthorn sized berries which the birds love and then superb autumn colour. Be sure only to buy this one and not one that has an extra name or a different second name, no matter what they tell you is just as good at the nursery/G Centre. You may have a bit of a time hunting one down but it is better to do this than accept a substitute.

Dave

yeah what he said!

we have some in one of our hedges and its top notch. There are some not so nice cultivars/hybrids about but one we have just bought and which looks very promising is "Amelanchier grandiflora robin hill" which looks like it makes a bit more of a tree (which in this particular case may not be what you want but which I name for others interest)
http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/product_68694.html

[willowa]

In my gardening book, Amelanchier (Snowey Mespilus)Or labled as (Lamarckii) grows to 14ft and is not recomended for a small garden.

J Parker bulbs. Have an offer on dwarf fruit trees at the moment. Cotoneaster (hybridus pendulus) grows as a weeping tree. Or cotoneaster (salicifolius) 15ft. cotoneaster(divaricatus 6ftx6ft or bullatus smaller) All the cotoneasters berries are loved by birds.

[Sue Wright]

Hi all,

Amelanchier can be grown to the size that best suits you and you garden. If you choose to get one then buy one when it's small (about 2' - 4') and keep it as a shrub rather than letting it go on into a tree. If you want a tree version then cut off the lower branches and allow it to grow on up.

Personally I'd recommend a Crab Apple tree, Malus 'Red Scarlet' is a great one with red berries much more tasty and appealing to Birds. Rowans are a good choice too though so IF you have the room then why not get both! Best wishes whichever you decide on and after digging the hole, make sure you've room for some compost which will give it a good start.

Sue

[boznia]

Originally Posted by Sue & Terry

Hi all,

Amelanchier can be grown to the size that best suits you and you garden. If you choose to get one then buy one when it's small (about 2' - 4') and keep it as a shrub rather than letting it go on into a tree. If you want a tree version then cut off the lower branches and allow it to grow on up.

Personally I'd recommend a Crab Apple tree, Malus 'Red Scarlet' is a great one with red berries much more tasty and appealing to Birds. Rowans are a good choice too though so IF you have the room then why not get both! Best wishes whichever you decide on and after digging the hole, make sure you've room for some compost which will give it a good start.

Sue

Thanks for the advice, I can't seem to find Red Scarlet crab apples. Do you mean Red Sentinel? I found these and apparently they are self pollinating.

My wife has bought me a Pyracantha bush ( Orange glow ), do the birds go for the berries on these?

Thanks again all,

Ben

[Paul1853]

Originally Posted by boznia

Thanks for the advice, I can't seem to find Red Scarlet crab apples. Do you mean Red Sentinel? I found these and apparently they are self pollinating.

My wife has bought me a Pyracantha bush ( Orange glow ), do the birds go for the berries on these?

Thanks again all,

Ben

I planted a Crab Apple outside my old house that is opposite to where I live now.
It is certainly 30ft plus tall and still growing. You could certainly do much worse than grow a holly. Mine is 20ft plus tall and the thrush and blackbird both eat the berries, although this year they have left most of them. Last year the thrush stripped it in a few days! Even without eating the berries the birds seem to like sitting on the Holly.
Paul

[Sue Wright]

Originally Posted by boznia

Thanks for the advice, I can't seem to find Red Scarlet crab apples. Do you mean Red Sentinel? I found these and apparently they are self pollinating.

My wife has bought me a Pyracantha bush ( Orange glow ), do the birds go for the berries on these?

Thanks again all,

Ben

Sorry Ben, but shows your brain's working better than mine was last night or should I say early this morning. Red Sentinel IS the one, you won't go wrong with that and you can prune it to your required limits. Ours is approx 12 feet high and 5 years old. Good luck,

Sue

[Sue Wright]

Originally Posted by Paul1853

I planted a Crab Apple outside my old house that is opposite to where I live now.
It is certainly 30ft plus tall and still growing. You could certainly do much worse than grow a holly. Mine is 20ft plus tall and the thrush and blackbird both eat the berries, although this year they have left most of them. Last year the thrush stripped it in a few days! Even without eating the berries the birds seem to like sitting on the Holly.
Paul

Hi Paul, I agree wholeheartedly about the Holly, but it grows at a slow rate compared with the Crab - if you've got the room though Ben, I'd definately have BOTH without question. Get a good year with cold and berries combined and you could well see Redwings, Fieldfare, Blackcap & Blackies etc.....not to mention the Waxwings of course!

Sue

[willowa]

Originally Posted by boznia

Thanks for the advice, I can't seem to find Red Scarlet crab apples. Do you mean Red Sentinel? I found these and apparently they are self pollinating.

My wife has bought me a Pyracantha bush ( Orange glow ), do the birds go for the berries on these?

Thanks again all,

Ben

The birds will eat the orange berries but after the red ones have gone.
good luck

[Paul1853]

Originally Posted by Sue & Terry

Hi Paul, I agree wholeheartedly about the Holly, but it grows at a slow rate compared with the Crab - if you've got the room though Ben, I'd definately have BOTH without question. Get a good year with cold and berries combined and you could well see Redwings, Fieldfare, Blackcap & Blackies etc.....not to mention the Waxwings of course!

Sue

Strangely I have not seen any birds in 20+ years eat the fruit from "my Crab Apple" tree. Most of the fruit is blown off in the autumn, but there is still quite a lot left on the tree, but the birds just ignore it.
Paul

[Cathy H]

Hi Boznia,

I note that you've been recommended a rowan tree for the berries but fear it would grow too tall.

My brother bought a rowan last year, but it was a dwarf variety, at the moment only about 1 foot tall and it had berries on it last winter. You may be able to have one after all.

Cheers,

[Sue Wright]

Originally Posted by Paul1853

Strangely I have not seen any birds in 20+ years eat the fruit from "my Crab Apple" tree. Most of the fruit is blown off in the autumn, but there is still quite a lot left on the tree, but the birds just ignore it.
Paul

That may be the case where you are Paul...or with the variety of Tree, but just to show what I mean, I've attached some of the many I have to this.

Perhaps there's more than 1 Crab Apple Tree in your vacinity.

Sue

[Isurus]

A few thoughts....Theres an excellent thread running in the beeb forum about crabs at the moment. The thing to remember re sizing is that if your are buying a cultivar (such as red sentinel) it will be grafted and you can control its eventual size by selecting one grafted onto a dwarfing/semi-dwarfing root stock.

Originally Posted by Sue & Terry

after digging the hole, make sure you've room for some compost which will give it a good start.

I would actualy disagree with Sue on this. We prefer not to add compost as we want the tree to push down deep roots asap rather than relying on rich nutrients immediately around its rootball (if that make sense). I do not think it makes that much of a difference either way though.

On a side topic...since we seem to agree that birds go for berries in the orde red, orange, yellow - is there an argument for planting a mixture of these pyracantha colours as opposed to all red on the basis that you will get fewer birds over a longer period of time as opposed to big flocks for a brief time until the red ones are gone?

Holly is excellent but remember a male is needed nearby and your plant must be female if you want to see berries!

[Paul1853]

Originally Posted by Sue & Terry

That may be the case where you are Paul...or with the variety of Tree, but just to show what I mean, I've attached some of the many I have to this.

Perhaps there's more than 1 Crab Apple Tree in your vacinity.

Sue

Probably it's the colour of the fruit, yours are nice and red. The ones on my tree are yellow/brown, just like a miniture normal apple would be.
Paul

[hayfieldgolfer]

Originally Posted by Paul1853

Probably it's the colour of the fruit, yours are nice and red. The ones on my tree are yellow/brown, just like a miniture normal apple would be.
Paul

I had a small bush with the same yellow apple type fruit on, nothing ate them. However it might have been a quince?

[d.steeley]

Originally Posted by willowa

In my gardening book, Amelanchier (Snowey Mespilus)Or labled as (Lamarckii) grows to 14ft and is not recomended for a small garden.

J Parker bulbs. Have an offer on dwarf fruit trees at the moment. Cotoneaster (hybridus pendulus) grows as a weeping tree. Or cotoneaster (salicifolius) 15ft. cotoneaster(divaricatus 6ftx6ft or bullatus smaller) All the cotoneasters berries are loved by birds.

I have a 20+ year old Amelanchier lamarckii in my garden and it is still only 12ft high. I would say a tree that grows to 14ft is ideal for a small garden.

Apples and crabs can be very decorative but I am not keen on wasps and you get lots of them around apples, especially the wind falls.

Dave

[Sue Wright]

I agree with you re the size of 14' tree Dave, the only thing I'd add is that the Crab apples last throughout the winter (well the majority of it) whereas the berries of our Amelanchier are soon devoured once ripe, by Blackies. A difficult one indeed, all in all depends really on choice.

Sue

[d.steeley]

Originally Posted by Sue & Terry

I agree with you re the size of 14' tree Dave, the only thing I'd add is that the Crab apples last throughout the winter (well the majority of it) whereas the berries of our Amelanchier are soon devoured once ripe, by Blackies. A difficult one indeed, all in all depends really on choice.

Sue

Yes, my fruits rarely get the chance to ripen as they are eaten by the Blackbirds and Starlings as soon as they begin to mature. Crab apples are lovely trees and I especially like the ornamental crab Malus 'John Downie'. Excellent flowers and boldly coloured fruit.

Dave

[Isurus]

Originally Posted by d.steeley

Yes, my fruits rarely get the chance to ripen as they are eaten by the Blackbirds and Starlings as soon as they begin to mature. Crab apples are lovely trees and I especially like the ornamental crab Malus 'John Downie'. Excellent flowers and boldly coloured fruit.

Dave

Dave - do you get much in the way of small birds on John Downie? The reason I ask is our birds seem to prefer our smaller fruited crabs to JD.

[steve_nova]

Originally Posted by Isurus

.....I would actualy disagree with Sue on this. We prefer not to add compost as we want the tree to push down deep roots asap rather than relying on rich nutrients immediately around its rootball (if that make sense). I do not think it makes that much of a difference either way though.....
Holly is excellent but remember a male is needed nearby and your plant must be female if you want to see berries!

I also prefer not to add compost or add perhaps a little but mix it well with the soil so that the roots will spread out asap. Only a trace of bone meal (as much as you can hold in your hand) if you really want to add anything in the way of fertilizer as this is rich in phosphates which encourages strong root growth. If in doubt, don't use any fertiliser or sparingly on the surface after planting!

Choose either one of the cultivars Ilex aquifolium 'Pyramidalis', or I. aquifolium 'J. C. Van Tol' which are both self-fertile so only one is needed.

[steve_nova]

For some reason, my mums 6ft Cotoneaster hybridus 'Pendulus' berries are preferred over the (to me) identical berries of the much more vigorous Cotoneaster salicifolius 'Cornubia' nearby?

Must be a subtle colour thing?

[steve_nova]

Originally Posted by willowa

In my gardening book, Amelanchier (Snowey Mespilus)Or labled as (Lamarckii) grows to 14ft and is not recomended for a small garden.

J Parker bulbs. Have an offer on dwarf fruit trees at the moment. Cotoneaster (hybridus pendulus) grows as a weeping tree. Or cotoneaster (salicifolius) 15ft. cotoneaster(divaricatus 6ftx6ft or bullatus smaller) All the cotoneasters berries are loved by birds.

I disagree, this tree is perfect for the small garden. How can 14ft be considered large unless you are a grower of alpines?

All I will add is that this tree fruits in mid to late Summer so will not feed hungry mouths when the weather gets cold.

Our native Privet Ligustrum vulgare, NOT the hedging L. ovalifolium is a great resource for birds even though its berries are black.