[Andy Bright]

Digiscoping with the Zeiss Diascope 85FL

When Zeiss announced the new Diascope 85, many of us ‘digiscopers’ were excited by the prospect of a compact and lightweight scope with the added benefit of an 85mm objective lens. The benefits of its size and weight are clear to every birder but the larger objective lens is especially desirable for digiscoping. A larger lens means faster shutter-speeds to help freeze the action, whether this action is at the user’s end due to camera-shake, or at the other end if the subject is moving. To some extent and depending upon implementation, a larger objective lens can also increase the resolving power of the scope, i.e. greater detail.

Courtesy of Zeiss U.K. I tested the Diascope 85fl with 20-60x and 40x eyepieces for 2 months from a digiscoping perspective. The 40x eyepiece was just a little too powerful for digiscoping use. My own preference is for the flexibility of a zoom eyepiece but the Zeiss 30x will be very suitable for those who prefer the fixed variety.

The twist-up/down eyecups were very efficient; in the lowered position they do not protrude above the eyepiece glass, therefore allowing the camera lens to get very close and minimise vignetting.

The scope uses a twin focus knob system; I’m not huge fan of twin focus designs with the view that a single well geared control is good enough and that a fine focus knob can encourage unnecessary fiddling. I know many that love their dual controls and no doubt Zeiss would have been criticised by many if they hadn’t decided on that route.
In addition there is a nice long lens shade that pulls out over the objective lens, sitting upon the shade is a sighting device consisting of an elongated vee, so as not cause any parallax problems.

A major bonus was that the design of the zoom eyepiece is such that it can be rotated with the camera firmly attached via a typical digiscoping adapter. Digiscopers using other scopes are currently paying small fortunes on specialised adapters that have cutouts to allow zoom operation.

Vignetting was minimal @20x on the zoom eyepiece, disappearing completely when the camera zoom was increased to one third of it’s range, even at higher magnifications on the eyepiece there was plenty of travel in the camera zoom before vignetting appeared.

There is some minor distortion around the edge of the image with the 20-60x at 20x, this caused by the extra wide field of view presented, but it’s of no importance from a digiscoping perspective and disappears very quickly as the zoom is increased.

Performance was very good with the resolution from this scope at above 30x being exceptional (it’s class leading above 40x). The image is indisputably brighter than any of its competitors, though I felt there was a slight price to pay for this in terms of contrast when compared to the other high-end scopes. Although contrast can be boosted in-computer/in-camera, it does aid focussing the scope via the camera monitor if a high contrast image is presented by the scope in the first place.

Andy Bright

[IanF]

An excellent review Andy. It sounds like the Diascope is well worth considering if I ever decide to upgrade from my Kowa.

[Andy Bright]

Thanks Ian,
If you own a large top of the range scope it's not really worthwhile changing to another, there's really not enough difference between them.
And here's a photo of the Zeiss Diascope 85FL.
Andy

[Raydes]

Thanks a lot Andy

Very nice review indeed.
I think this was the boost I needed to decide for My future scope!
Did I read it correct that you can still use the zoom function while using a typical adapter like the Digimount adapter ?
I think that's the one on your picture.

[Andy Bright]

Thanks Raymond,
Yes, the zoom eyepiece rotated independantly of the digimount+camera (though you may have to reverse the digimount's insert collar).... like I said, nice bonus.
I'll be posting a general review in the scopes section, this goes into a bit more detail and is aimed at a general user rather than a digiscoper.
Andy

[Doug]

Andy - what sort of price are we talking about?

[Andy Bright]

Doug:
I've seen the scope body at £929, and the zoom an extra £199 if purchased with the scope. Sounds a lot (well, it is!) but the only better compact/lightweight scope is the Swaro' ATS/STS80HD..... which is £1500 with zoom e.p.
Andy

[ivewalmer]

Andy et al,

Would I be right in thinking that the accepted order of preference for digiscoping (excluding price!) would be?:

1. Swaro ATS80HD

2. Zeiss 85Fl

3. Leica APO

Where would you tend to fit the previous Swaro AT80HD?

Apreciate it might not be quite that simple!

Ivan (Thinking of a second mortgage!)

[Andy Bright]

Hi Ivan,
Purely from a digiscoping point of view..... and I haven't used Pentax 80/100 nor the larger Nikon ED's
1 Swarovski ATS80HD
=1 Swarovski AT80HD...... I've yet to notice any difference in the two from a digiscoping viewpoint.
3 Leica APO77..... ahead of the Kowa if using fixed mag eyepieces.
=3 Kowa 823/824
If I were shooting in bad light conditions for much of the time, the Zeiss would be up there somewhere. Still think the slight lack of contrast via the Zeiss puts it marginally behind the above scopes for digiscoping.

There's precious little optical difference between all of the above.... like binos, you may have to consider other factors like feel/weight/size/cost
Andy

[Richard Ford]

Excellent review Andy, and a nice looking/sounding scope.
Its always nice to here that you still rate the older Swarovski range AT/ST80HD up there at the top.
No need to consider changing mine yet then (not that I could afford to).

Rich

[Dave Hawkins]

Dear Andy

I have the opportunity to digiscope with most scopes and eyepiece combos and have helped (hopefully!) many people improve their Digiscoping.
The Zeiss is a great scope for .... birding but would not be my first choice for Digiscoping. In particular I think vignetting is unacceptable on a scope of this price. Why should you have to zoom in with all the attendant problems this imposes?
For me at least, the Leica APO 77 is the scope of choice. It has NO vignetting with a x20ww, minimal with x30ww and has the perfect shaped eyepiece for virtual instant, smmoth removal or attachment with a (rubber liner removed) EagleEye adaptor.
The Swaro 65's and 80's are also almost vignette free with the x30w and similarly (once the eyecup is removed) are very easy to get on and off.
The vignetting on the Zeiss might be better if that blasted eyecup came off!
But as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder !
Dave Hawkins

[Andy Bright]

Dave:
Like I said above, the Zeiss isn't there in my top scopes for absolute digiscoping excellence (but it's there if weight/size/quality/cost are factors)
I posted some results a few weeks ago about vignetting with the Zeiss vs Swaro' (AT), the Zeiss @ 20x allowed the camera to go further into wide-angle without vignetting than the Swaro's 20-60 (I noted focal lengths at 20, 30, 40x)..... once you get past 30x, vignetting was similar between the two.

Both eyepieces allowed virtual glass to glass contact with the adapters (Digimount, insert removed and L.C.E), the Zeiss eyecup seems to retract slightly further than the ATS series (as you say, the Zeiss is fixed). Many of the birders/digiscopers that I know are happy to sacrifice a touch of vignetting for the convenience of not removing the eyecup.
Vignetting in the bottom 20% of my camera's zoom range isn't going to keep me awake at night :-)
Andy

[richard b]

Andy
I bought a Zeiss 85FL about 12 months ago and have been really impressed - just as well considering the price! As a recent convert to digiscoping I did not butyit with this in mind, but it seems to perform well.
However, the vignetting at low zoom on x30 is annoying. Has anyone tried it with the x20 eyepiece? With very gentle pressure my eyecup came off! It is secured by a thin spring clip which fits into a recess. It went back on very easily, but I have not been brave enough to take it off again to try with camera attached. There seems to be 1-2mm of rubber projecting above the eye-piece - enough to make a difference?
Has anyone else found that they can remove and replace the eyecup? Does it significantly reduce vignetting?

Richard B

[Andy Bright]

Hi Richard,
I didn't manage to get my hands on the 30x eyepiece, just the zoom and 40x.
Is there a 20x eyepiece for the Zeiss??? I'm not sure about that (the 30x is 23x on the 65mm scope).
As my scope was courtesy of Zeiss U.K. I couldn't really start mauling the eyecup
The eyecup on the 20-60x that I used retracted so as to be no more than 1mm above the eyepiece glass.....an amount that wouldn't have a significant impact on vignetting.
Andy

Originally posted by richard b
Andy
I bought a Zeiss 85FL about 12 months ago and have been really impressed - just as well considering the price! As a recent convert to digiscoping I did not butyit with this in mind, but it seems to perform well.
However, the vignetting at low zoom on x30 is annoying. Has anyone tried it with the x20 eyepiece? With very gentle pressure my eyecup came off! It is secured by a thin spring clip which fits into a recess. It went back on very easily, but I have not been brave enough to take it off again to try with camera attached. There seems to be 1-2mm of rubber projecting above the eye-piece - enough to make a difference?
Has anyone else found that they can remove and replace the eyecup? Does it significantly reduce vignetting?

Richard B

[mak]

richard B.

I know that the Zeiss 85 FL does not have a 23x eyepiece. If you look at their brochure it states that there is a 23x/30x eyepiece, 30x/40x eyepiece and a variable 15x-45x/20x-60x. The first number represents the magnification when the eyepiece is fitted to the 65mm version and the second number is when the eyepiece is fitted to the 85mm version. The only 20x magnification for the 85mm is when you fit the variable eyepiece.

[waynewallace]

I had an hour earlier today, to compare Zeiss 85 FL, Swarovski 80 HD and Leica APO 77, side by side at Pagham courtesy of Kay Optical, who do field trips on the 4th Sunday of every month there.
I am interested in upgrading from my Opticron scope to a 'top of the range' high defination jobby, so was eager to compare these 3 scopes.
All 3 scopes were tested using both zoom and fixed eyepieces and the first thing I noticed was that the Zeiss was noticably sharper @60x. I wasn't really expecting that - the other thing that stood out was the obvious YELLOW cast on the Zeiss - I read Andy's review and there doesn't appear to be any mention of this, although I have seen another review that there is a slight blue cast! Any one else noticed colour casts on the Zeiss?
At lower magnifications, there wasn't anything to choose between all 3 scopes and overall, although I would normally go for a fixed eye piece, the zooms were so good that I would probably opt for a zoom whatever I eventually buy.
My other half wears glasses and couldn't see a full image at all with the Zeiss but was fine with the Swaro and Leica.
It's my birthday in a couple of weeks so I will do some serious head scratching before making the final decision but at the mo, the Zeiss is just ahead...

[Andy Bright]

Hi Wayne,
Interesting to see you mention a yellow colour cast, certainly a colder image to my eyes..... certainly in comparison to my usual Swarovski AT80HD. To some extent it could be down to what you (or I) last looked through.... but the Leica is pretty neutral to my eyes, so I would've thought the Zeiss would appear bluish after viewing through that.
I know the Zeiss night owls had a very blue colour cast to them to aid low light viewing, though whether or not Zeiss have carried this over to their scope, I couldn't say.

Interesting what you say about your spectacled other half's experience of the zoom in comparison to the others... the new Swaro' ATS zoom may be better to some spetacled viewers, but I'm surprised it (the Zeiss) wasn't as good as the latest Leica (though Leica seem to change there eyepieces by stealth, so it could be a new version that my tester hadn't seen)

With it's 85mm objective lens, the Zeiss should be revealing more detail than the others.... though the Optolyth 100mm scope proves that this isn't always borne out in the real world.

Although my review was from a digiscoping perspective, where differences are more apparent than with the nake-eye in real time, there really isn't much between the top scopes.
So, whatever you decide to purchase, I'm sure you won't be unhappy with the view. It's unlikely you'll ever need to go through this process again, the scope should last a life-time (which slighlty compensates for the price).
Andy

[cspratt]

Hi all:

As you age your eyes will change and you can get a yellow cast to the image looking through any scope. Younger people may see a slight bluish image.

My new (three days old) 823M Kowa seems to be "neutral" for me. Then again I had cataract surgery in February and it is nice to look through any scope!

By the way the new Zeiss scopes are green in colour.

An interesting review and thread in any case.

Chris. Spratt

[cspratt]

Back again. Forgot to say in previous post that I got the Kowa 823M for the very nice digital adapter that is a new option. I find it is a nice piece of work and makes digiscoping less work and more fun!

The other reason, for me, for buying the Kowa was the exceptionally good price I got from the dealer.

Chris. Spratt

[Andy Bright]

Originally posted by cspratt

By the way the new Zeiss scopes are green in colour.
Chris. Spratt

Very interesting, Chris.
Yes, the Diascopes are available in green as well as the more familiar matt silver/grey.... though I've never come across a green version in the U.K.
My own opinion (probably at odds with everyone) is that green would be greeted favourably by many birders..... so Zeiss should make more people aware of that option.

[RonR]

I had an opertunity to visit with an Ziess representitive at a sports show, what an experience, did not get his name as I was to busy learning. Being I have a Sony F707 I wanted to see what could be done with the Zeiss - was working with the 65 and it did a very good job, being we were inside and not much to focus on, we used a barcode on another exibitors stock, recommended I get to a dealer an try the 85 and wait till Zeiss comes out with the mount for the Sony - he told me how it would operate and it sounded like it would be the "cats meow".
We'll wait and see.

[Mugil]

Hello everybody,

I am digiscoping for certain period with Zeiss Diascope 85 T FL with Quick Camera Adapter and there is no or very few vignetting. This Adapter costs cca. 300 EUR (mybe somewhere is less). The only problem I have got is that in this adapter I can not use my home made Cable Release Bracket because of too short screw (I must make one longer), thats why I am still using my Kowa TSN 2 with a home made tube-like device with a thread at one end to attach to the camera lens’s filter thread.
By the way I think that in fluorite lenses is necesary to have light coloured scopes (silver, white...) and suppose that green should not be used because of heat. But mybe I am wrong.

[mak]

Mugil.
The green version operates the same as the silver version. The lenses have nothing to do with the body colour.

[Mugil]

Can you explain why are all those profesional SRL objectives of Canon and Nikon in white or silver colours? As far as I know this is because of fluorite lenses!

[Adey Baker]

The refractive index of fluorite is affected by the temperature so I'm sure this is why lenses/scopes with fluorite elements are usually light-coloured - to reflect heat away.

Canon have used fluorite in their large-aperture telephoto lenses for decades - hence the pale off-white colouring has become almost a 'trademark' for them.

As far as I'm aware, Nikon use only 'ED' glass rather than fluorite for their camera lenses.

In the UK at least Nikon tele-lenses are black with the white-coloured versions only available to special order. I've seen one reference to the white ones being 'prefered by wildlife photographers' - which is interesting!