[solentbirder]

Has anyone else noticed that most models of Zeiss, Leica, Swaro, Nikon etc. can be readily obtained on the used market (e.g. eBay), but Swifts seem hard to come by ? Sure, you can pick up used 8.5x44 Audubon porros, but other models hardly appear. Is this because Swift owners are pretty satisfied and don't feel the need to endlessly seek optical perfection ?

For instance, if you watch eBay for a couple of weeks you'll easily find a mint condition top-brand roof-prism. On the other hand, I'm yet to see a Swift 10x50 Kestrel, let alone a mint example.

[swamp_rattler]

i've been waiting for a 10x50 swift kestrel for ages! what an awesome binocular for the price. i regret not buying 20 of them when they were in stock.

[richt]

Originally Posted by solentbirder

Has anyone else noticed that most models of Zeiss, Leica, Swaro, Nikon etc. can be readily obtained on the used market (e.g. eBay), but Swifts seem hard to come by ? Sure, you can pick up used 8.5x44 Audubon porros, but other models hardly appear. Is this because Swift owners are pretty satisfied and don't feel the need to endlessly seek optical perfection ?

For instance, if you watch eBay for a couple of weeks you'll easily find a mint condition top-brand roof-prism. On the other hand, I'm yet to see a Swift 10x50 Kestrel, let alone a mint example.

Hi

From my experience i know at least 2 owners of Audubon porros's who wouldnt swap them for absoloutely anything else
Of course Swift porro's are for some bulky,heavy and not generally waterproof etc until the very late models but as my work colleague and swift owner once said

"I dont enjoy wet weather birding so its not an issue"

As an aside you dont see that many of the latest Swift roof on the famous bidding site so perhaps owners hold on to these as well

All in all i think they are a very underated optical bargain and i personally intend to buy a late 804 model of the 8.5 x 44 sometime

Regards
Rich

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by solentbirder

Has anyone else noticed that most models of Zeiss, Leica, Swaro, Nikon etc. can be readily obtained on the used market (e.g. eBay), but Swifts seem hard to come by ? Sure, you can pick up used 8.5x44 Audubon porros, but other models hardly appear. Is this because Swift owners are pretty satisfied and don't feel the need to endlessly seek optical perfection ?

For instance, if you watch eBay for a couple of weeks you'll easily find a mint condition top-brand roof-prism. On the other hand, I'm yet to see a Swift 10x50 Kestrel, let alone a mint example.

In one of my stupider moves, I sold my mint Kestrel 2 years ago based chiefly on Stephan Ingraham's commentary that there was insufficient difference between the 8.5 x 44 Audubon and the 10 x 50 Kestrel to justify the added weight and bulk of the Kestrel or the sense of owning both. He was, as I came to realize, completely wrong on this one. Interestingly, I had no takers on eBay despite a listed price of $125, and ended up selling the Kestrel on Astromart after a 3 week lisitng. Conversely, one my better purchases (on Astromart, ironically) was a 7 x 35 Swift Neptune II (black gutta percha model), an astoundingly sharp and crisp binocular, for $65. This Forum has actually done wonders for recognizing the appeal of Swift bins, as until the Forum discussion appeared, I'm afraid the brand was simply not very popular other than with a very small group of birders and optical nuts. Bottom line: I suspect that not many Swifts were sold, either new or used, and most changed hands very infrequently.

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

...
This Forum has actually done wonders for recognizing the appeal of Swift bins, as until the Forum discussion appeared, I'm afraid the brand was simply not very popular other than with a very small group of birders and optical nuts. Bottom line: I suspect that not many Swifts were sold, either new or used, and most changed hands very infrequently.

Ouch! Selling a mint Kestrel based on a false premise is a bummer. However, the 802 Neptune 7x35, 420 ft., was a great buy at $65.

As one who has purchased five older Swift binoculars on eBay during the past year, and passed up many times more, I'd have to push back somewhat from the original assertion. Older Swifts not only are available in serviceable condition, but in much greater variety than most other brands, such as Nikon, Leica and Zeiss. That fact made a big difference to me in writing the history of the 804 Audubon because I really needed to have a representative of each model type in hand to retain contact with reality. One simply can't appreciate how massive a Type 1 or 2 binocular is, or how much handier the Type 4 body design (e.g., 804R, 804 HR/5) became, without good quality specimens.

To date, about 115 different Swift models have been identified by a European collector, and I know his list is not complete. The models I like the most were made by Hiyoshi Kogaku, Ltd. (JL B-56), and seem to incorporate outstanding optical and construction quality in every instance. Mostly, these were advertised as Mk II Swift binoculars, although Hiyoshi also made several Mk I types that were hardly of lesser quality. My impression is that these were marketed as Mk I to justify economy pricing by Swift. They were really bargains in their own lifetime.

So, even without historical sales figures, I'm fairly certain that a huge number of Swifts were sold in the US and Europe between 1960 and 2000. Many of these models worked as well as Audubons, and some maybe even better. Like the 8.5x44 Audubon configuration, the 10x50 configurations also had their origin as Type 1 heavy body "Feather Weight", and went through a parallel evolution to the final Type 4 Audubon/Kestrel. Some of this is confused by different American and European versions. Also, a rose by any other name ... doesn't sell as well. :(.

Be patient, folks. eBay may be in a temporary lull for older Swift porros, but I am optimistic. Arguably, they are the most available and collectible binoculars out there ... and all useable.

ED

[jedku]

Curious that there is there so much interest in locating, older, superceded models of Swift bins on Birdforum. New ones are available which are better than the old ones and they are not expensive.
I am very happy with my 820s. The 828s are excellent roof prism bins. I have not tried the new Ultralites, but reviews suggest they are quite good. Why not buy Swifts new with all the improvements they offer?
P.S. -- I don't work for Swift or any bin biz.

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by jedku

Curious that there is there so much interest in locating, older, superceded models of Swift bins on Birdforum. New ones are available which are better than the old ones and they are not expensive.
I am very happy with my 820s. The 828s are excellent roof prism bins. I have not tried the new Ultralites, but reviews suggest they are quite good. Why not buy Swifts new with all the improvements they offer?
P.S. -- I don't work for Swift or any bin biz.

Hello jedku,

An interest in collecting older Swift models is by no means a negative statement about current models. On the contrary, I own an 828 myself and think it's a terrific mid-priced roof binocular, and would recommend it without reservation. I have tried the 820 standard, and although it has many nice features there are reasons I prefer to use my older 804R. I have looked through two Ultralite models, but not enough to reach a personal conclusion.

Thanks for your interesting comment.

ED
PS. I don't work for Swift or any bin biz either.