[Florence]

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

[ali travers]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

I am in the same situation looked through three all are outstanding but i found that the zeiss really made me go wow!! I started looking at the 10x but i am now leaning towards 8x
as they are brighter and better field of view

[Otto McDiesel]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

I have the 10x42 Ultravids and EL's. The EL have better focusing and handling and ergonomics. The Ultravid have better image in the center of the field of view, with more contrast and better colors and a bit brighter. The EL's have better edge sharpness, they have a wider sweet spot. The Ultravids seem to have a bit more color fringing. It's really difficult to compare them: they are both great and they are close. If i could take the Ultavid optics and put them in an EL body, i would. Beware that Ultravid has a non-lubricated focuser that may take a year or more to become smooth.
I did not like the FL: too much bending at the edges.

[pduxon]

I'm slightly biased as I own a zeiss 8x42.....

to my mind they are all fine binoculars. The differences optically are marginal and so you need to pick them up and try them for yourselves. You will get lots of opinions but the only one that matters is yours.

The only grumble I have against the Ultravids is the focus which I dislike, it seems to loose and coarse....

personally I prefer 8x, better Depth of Field and Fied of view. Its a matter of choice.

Dont rule out the Nikon HGL or for that matter the Opticron DBA Oasis. They are significantly cheaper. Lack cache though!

check out the reviews on http://alula.fi/GB/index.htm

the 1/2004 and 3/2004 reviews will be of interest.

[Paul Jarvis]

Pete you are correct not to rule the nikons out, they have a nice sharp image and the best focus mechanism on the market in mho. 8x42 would be choice apposed to 10x42.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

Thanks everybody as pduxon says they are all fine binoculars and maybe at the end of the day it comesdown to personal choice. I like the leica strengths and do not seem perturbed by the various perceived weaknesses. The brightness and contrast was really impressive and they felt the most comfortable to use, I suspect that is where I will go.

cheers

[ceasar]

Hi Florence,
If you've determined that a roof prism binocular suits you best then any of the above should please you. They all have oustanding optics, ergonomics and views. Ultimately it will be a personal choice as you state. Before you finalize your choice I encourage you to look through a Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E Porro Prism. There may be some things about it that you won't like but there will be at least 2 that you will like. The first is the view which is, in a word, stunning! The second is the price, which is about 2/3rds that of the roof prisms you are considering.
Cordially,
Bob

[Sancho]

Hi Florence, don´t want to muddy the waters with irrelevant advice, and you´ve had plenty of good advice from folk who know bins more than I do. But.... I have a pair of 10x42 ELs, which I love, chose ´em for the ergonomics (optics were a close call with Leica, but I find the big Leicas ´clunky´in my hands. Although I do own a pair of Leica 8x20 compacts which are second to none). Anyway, more recently, I got a pair of 8x32 ELs, and to be honest, had I not owned the 10x first, the 8x would definitely have become my general purpose bins of choice. Clearer, brighter, better colour rendition, wider FOV, greater depth, much easier on the eye. The magnification difference in the 10x is exaggerated, in fact, by the narrower FOV (the target appears even bigger because the Field of View is narrower, so the ´target´object takes up more of the ´circle´... I´m sure there´s a technical way to explain this but I don´t know it!) The 8x32 EL´s are extremely ´easy´ in the hand, a lot easier on the neck, and nearly 400 euro cheaper. The only reason I haven´t parted with the 10x is that I still use them for very long distance viewing, but to be honest, when I have a scope with me anyway, the extra magnification is irrelevant. Best of luck with your choice!

[John Frink]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

Hi Florence,

I certainly agree with the others that all three are superb instruments, and the technical differences between them are small; so the choice becomes primarily one of ergonomics, as it should for any important hand-held tool. You really should try them all and see which one simply feels best, to the eye and the hand. An important consideration if you wear spectacles is eye-relief; too much or too little can be quite distracting. In my experience the major brands generally line up this way in order of increasing eye-relief: Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, Nikon.

John

[Tero]

Originally Posted by Paul Jarvis

Pete you are correct not to rule the nikons out, they have a nice sharp image and the best focus mechanism on the market in mho. 8x42 would be choice apposed to 10x42.

Both are fine, so in this case it is an individual choice.

Happy birding, Florence.

[Otto McDiesel]

Out of the 20+ premium binoculars that i had, i found that i use only two:
Swarovski EL 8x32 for most birding in the woods and the park, and Leica Ultravid 10x42 for prairies, shores, deserts etc - where i often use a monopod. When i am undecided i take the EL.
Maybe a really good 8x32 is all you need.

[Tero]

Maybe a really good 8x32 is all you need.

My dream binoculars are still 8.5x32 and 9x32. If a 9x32 comes around, at least Monarch quality, I will sell my (music) CDs or even my scope if I have to, to get one. Something like a Zeiss 9x30 for under 900.

Actually, there is one, but the FOV is really disappointing:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/remingto...inoculars.html
even compared to their own 8x42
http://www.opticsplanet.net/remingto...inoculars.html

I already have something better than that, Nikon 9x25 reverse porros, which have become favorites lately. Actually, a 9x30 reverse porro would be good enough, but there is only one 30mm reverse porro of any sort (10x30, an Orion, really poor). So I am keeping an eye on the 30-33mm roofs.

[Nick Elliston]

I went into a local shop today and looked at the Ultravid 8×32 BR, Zeiss 8×32 FL and Swaro 8×32EL. I don't intend to buy any just at the moment but will in the not too distant future so it was perhaps a bit unfair to the shop owner.

Optically I felt that all were excellent and any differences were minimal. Everyone's eyes are a bit different and others will probably notice differences that I did not. Ergonomically I preferred the Leica - as I did when I got the Ultra 10×25 earlier this year. I did not find the focus wheel a problem and don't on my current Leica's.

It really does come down to personal preference and price. If I could get a really good deal on one it would probably sway in for me.

The other issue for me could be eye relief. At present I wear glasses for reading and not anything else, but this could (probably will) change in the not too distant future. I would not want to get binos where eye relief could be a problem in the future. I did try them with my glasses on and don't THINK eye relief will be a problem but of course the vision was a bit blurred anyway.

I have not discounted the Nikon's, but they were not in stock to try.

Anyway, off to the pub now to try and think of a cunning plan to persuade her indoors that additional binos are preferable to replacement windows ... could be a challenge.

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by Nick Elliston

Anyway, off to the pub now to try and think of a cunning plan to persuade her indoors that additional binos are preferable to replacement windows ... could be a challenge.

It´s impossible in my experience to persuade the significant other that another pair of bins is a priority, so try my method: siphon off 50 euro per week from your normal spending, cutting back on whatever, creating a cash slush-fund until you´ve saved up enough for a mega-purchase. Then arrive home with a spanking new pair of bins, and announce you got them really cheap in a sale (like all her shoes). The long wait in accumulating the slush-fund is pleasant anticipation, and makes the final acquisition all the more special, a bit like Christmas when you were a kid.

[Tero]

Yes, stuff those bills into the mattress, or sell useless memorabilia from youth, such as CDs and LPs. LPs actually may get you something. Sell 100, get maybe $100 here. Extra sets of golf clubs, electric guitars that you no longer have an amp to. Try eBay.

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by Tero

Yes, stuff those bills into the mattress, or sell useless memorabilia from youth, such as CDs and LPs. LPs actually may get you something. Sell 100, get maybe $100 here. Extra sets of golf clubs, electric guitars that you no longer have an amp to. Try eBay.

And books. I know it´s a sacrilege, but I have weeded out my library, the benchmark being "will I read this again when I´m retired and have the time?". If the answer is no, I take it to the secondhand bookstore and add the proceeds to the slush-fund. I may go to bibliophile hell for this. But think of the people in the optics trade that I´m keeping in jobs!

[graphicjoe]

I just got a pair of Leica 8X42's, and did a lot of trying and reading before ordering them. They are great and I have no regrets. However, I suspect I would be just as happy with any of the high end binoculars. They are all so good that reviewers and advice givers are generally driven to picking at very small nits. I suspect that a lot of the differences that people report seeing would not be present if blind testing was used.

I didn't like the way the Zeiss model looked--silly I know, but hey, it's my money and I have to look at them every day. The other factor for me was my long experience with Leica M series cameras and lenses. I won't go into details because this is not a camera website, but suffice it to say that the Leica lenses are peerless, and the cameras are stout and dead reliable--for decades. My 1958 M3 cost about $300 new. It is now worth about $1200, and has worked perfectly for the better part of 50 years. There aren't many 1958 cameras in daily use, and most have gone in the trash long ago.

So buy what feels right to you and go watch birds and be happy.

Joe Stephenson

[topconlcd]

Originally Posted by graphicjoe

I just got a pair of Leica 8X42's, and did a lot of trying and reading before ordering them. They are great and I have no regrets. However, I suspect I would be just as happy with any of the high end binoculars. They are all so good that reviewers and advice givers are generally driven to picking at very small nits. I suspect that a lot of the differences that people report seeing would not be present if blind testing was used.

I didn't like the way the Zeiss model looked--silly I know, but hey, it's my money and I have to look at them every day. The other factor for me was my long experience with Leica M series cameras and lenses. I won't go into details because this is not a camera website, but suffice it to say that the Leica lenses are peerless, and the cameras are stout and dead reliable--for decades. My 1958 M3 cost about $300 new. It is now worth about $1200, and has worked perfectly for the better part of 50 years. There aren't many 1958 cameras in daily use, and most have gone in the trash long ago.

So buy what feels right to you and go watch birds and be happy.

Joe Stephenson

I have just bought a pair of ULTRAVID 8x42 BL binocular, the fourth pair of binoculars. I agree with Joe's comment. The difference in high end binoculars are minor. The choice is somewhat personal. I enjoy using the elegant BL binocular with leather armour, although it may not be practical in wet area. In wet season, I use either a SWAROVSKI 8.5x42 EL or a cheap NIKON 10x32 LX. Among the binoculars, I rank the LECIA binocular no. 1 because it makes me feel using LECIA M series camera.

[Nick Elliston]

Originally Posted by Sancho

It´s impossible in my experience to persuade the significant other that another pair of bins is a priority,

Quite agree Sancho. Tried something similar to your suggestion with my 10×25 Ultra's and wasn't believed. If I save on other expenditure and say I got the binos with what I saved, the question will be why wasn't the money spent on replacement door to go with the windows.

So back to more cunning and devious plans....... perhaps I'll say I stole them!

[Nick Elliston]

Agree with Joe and Topconlcd. Differences between the topend binos are small and will vary according to the user. As Joe says, you pay your money and make your choice and nobody can say you are wrong. How you feel about a particular bino and how it looks to you is important.

I had another look at all 3 binos again at the weekend and my view remains the same. All are good, virtually indistinguishable (to me) from each other but my preference remains with the Leica - possibly because I am so pleased with the 10×25. A particularly good deal from one of the others would probably sway it though.

[XtreemLee]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

And was leaning towards the Leica's since I own a pair of 12x50, BN's. Then I tried a pair iof Nikon 8x42 LXL's. I had bought my wife a pair of LX's a year ago and ended up using them quite often. After trying them all I decided the extra $400(USD) I could save and have the same level of quality, Nikon was the way to go. Yes they are not German (Portuguese) or Austrian by they are wonderful...

[topconlcd]

Originally Posted by XtreemLee

And was leaning towards the Leica's since I own a pair of 12x50, BN's. Then I tried a pair iof Nikon 8x42 LXL's. I had bought my wife a pair of LX's a year ago and ended up using them quite often. After trying them all I decided the extra $400(USD) I could save and have the same level of quality, Nikon was the way to go. Yes they are not German (Portuguese) or Austrian by they are wonderful...

I bought a NIKON 10x32 LX at a discount of US$600 and I do not have any complaint in its sharpness and contrast. However I may buy other brand if I pay in full price. I use the LX for bird watching and find that white feather looks yellow. My LEICA BL and SWAROVSKI EL do show accurate color of feather in white.

[newarkbirdguy]

Originally Posted by Florence

I am leaning towards the Leica but as a novice would appreciate others' views.

...you'll be happy with any of them. I've been shopping around myself.

This weekend I had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison of the Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, and Nikon 10x42's. I felt the Zeiss were the brightest and had the best resolution, but the Leica's and Swarovski's were really close, and I suspect that with a little finer fiddling with the diopter adjustment or eye relief that I could have made all three of those models equally sharp. The Nikons were also very good, but just didn't seem to be quite as bright or sharp as the other three. Also, they seemed heavy compared to the others. The Leica's and Swarovski's were the lightest, with Zeiss in between them and the Nikons.

I liked the Swarovski optics but that thumb rest just didn't fit my hands, so they were out just based on feel. But that's just me...if they fit your hands I'm sure you'll be very happy with them.

The Leica's were excellent, but they are a bit more expensive than the Zeiss and I still felt the Zeiss were the best of the group. But once again, I don't think you'll go wrong with those.

The Nikon's are also very good. I've been using a Nikon 10x42 (predecessor of the Monarch line) for 10 years now and I've been very happy with them. Nikon service was also great. After about 5 years I somehow damaged one barrel (never knew what happened, but they were misaligned one day). I sent them to Nikon and got them back about 3 weeks later fully repaired, cleaned, and better than new...all for something like $17 in shipping costs!

The Zeiss were the best in my opinion. I liked the feel of them and the image was great. The binocular fit nicely in my hand and I liked the focus wheel, although the demo unit I tried seemed strangely loose. I'm not sure if new models are like this, but even a little looser than I'm used to it was easy to focus.

So overall, try them out and figure out what fits your hands, eyes, and budget. You pretty much can't go wrong within this group.