[FrankD]

I recently purchased a Leica Trinovid BN 7x42 (yesterday actually). As most folks have found the focus is a bit "notchy" and not quite as smooth as some of the other focusing mechanisms on the market. I have read the threads on this forum in regard to that issue.

A week or so ago I had the opportunity to try a 7x42 Ultravid and found the focus to not be notchy whatsoever. When I commented about this to the owner he mentioned that after he bought the bin he would casually rotate the focusing knob back and forth even when he did not have the bins up to his eyes. Operating with that information I did much the same thing today when driving from one job to the next. Time was about 45 minutes.

When I had a break at my second job I picked up the Trinovids and went to focus on some birds outside. What I found was that the image wasn't "coming together" for me. After a little examination I found that the diopter for my right eye needed to be readjusted significantly. When I picked the bins up yesterday and when I used them today the diopter was at a "0" setting. After the drive this afternoon I then had to have the diopter set at +2 to the positive.

On the ride home from my second job I again rocked the focus knob back and forth to see if it changed the diopter setting a second time. Now that I am home and attempted to check the settings I find I must have the diopter set to +3 clicks in order for it focus in both barrels.

What is going on here? Has this happened to anyone else? Am I doing something wrong by attempting to smooth the focus out in this manner? What do folks think I should do at this point?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[solentbirder]

Hi Frank,
Sorry to hear about your trouble. I'd return them if I were you. It sounds like the diopter setting is slipping and this isn't going to get any better. I also doubt whether the technique you mentioned for smoothing out the focussing will really work. I owned a pair of 7x42 BN's for 9 months (the previous owner didn't like the focussing either). I figured I could smooth it out over time using the method you described but it never got any better and I sold it. Optically it's a superb instrument but I found the focussing issue unacceptable. I've also found (to my cost !) that the ergonomics of the BA/BN series just don't work for me.
Good luck
John

[FrankD]

John,

Thank you for the comments and suggestions. I believe you are right and came to much the same conclusion last night after logging off the site. The bins are packaged up and will be shipped back to Cabelas tomorrow morning. That is one thing you have to appreciate about them. Their return policy has to be the best in the industry. The question now becomes what should I buy in exchange for them?

[wint]

Frank

I had this happen twice with a pair of 8x32 BNs. They went back to Leica twice and after the second (warranty) fix I had no more problems. I had hoped for a slightly more reliable binocular for £625.

HTH

[gw4aurora]

Hello Frank,

I do hope you have not got a problem. Speaking from my own experience of course I have owned 2 pair of Trinnie BN's for many years these being the 10x50 and 8x42 and these bins have been faultless in operation. I wear specs and when I was getting regular eye checks the diopter on both bins was set at 0. My eyes have not been checked for 5yrs now and the diopter is set to +1 on both bins and the point is I never have to keep altering the diopter once set.

Hope everything works out for you Frank.

Regards,

Chris.

[FrankD]

Thank you gentleman.

I think a return is called for in this case so I am not worried about an extended wait for a repair to be done. The store I purchased them from is very good about returns and I do not anticipate any problems.

Again, now I just have to decide whether to pursue another Leica product or buy one of the other bins I was originally considering.

Thanks.

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by FrankD

John,

Thank you for the comments and suggestions. I believe you are right and came to much the same conclusion last night after logging off the site. The bins are packaged up and will be shipped back to Cabelas tomorrow morning. That is one thing you have to appreciate about them. Their return policy has to be the best in the industry. The question now becomes what should I buy in exchange for them?

I would give the Leica BN series one more shot. The Leica approach to their focussing mechanism is identical to that used for the Leica 35 mm lenses, i.e., relying on the natural lubricating qualities of brass against aluminum threads, with the advantages of avoiding the problem of grease never thinning and drying up, consistency of focus effort irrespective of temperature extremes and increased smoothness over time as the mechanism wears in. How long the latter takes is obviously dependent upon usage, and, based on the stream of complaints, apparently too long for most Forum members. Nonetheless, I own a Leica 7 x 42 BA purchased in 1993 which is now an extemely smooth focuser, and completely free of backlash. In any event, I agree completely with your praise for Cabelas - in my view they and Eagle Optics are the most reliable optics sellers and nicest folks around.

[solentbirder]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

...... The Leica approach to their focussing mechanism is identical to that used for the Leica 35 mm lenses, i.e., relying on the natural lubricating qualities of brass against aluminum threads, with the advantages of avoiding the problem of grease never thinning and drying up, consistency of focus effort irrespective of temperature extremes and increased smoothness over time as the mechanism wears in. How long the latter takes is obviously dependent upon usage, and, based on the stream of complaints, apparently too long for most Forum members....d.

I'm not sure I really buy this as a reason for rough focussing on some BN's. I owned an 8x32 BA and an 8x50 BA for many years and they were both perfectly smooth straight out of the box (I bought them new) and when I sold them they were still working exactly the same.

[Alexis Powell]

None of the Leica binos have the hydraulic smooth feeling of other brands, but what I've noticed is that the BA/BN generally seem much smoother than the Ultravids. The lack of "smoothness" of Leicas is something that I have only noticed when beginning a focus motion, that is, that the focus is a bit "sticky" (there is some static friction) when being set in motion but once in motion it is perfectly smooth (little kinetic friction). The Ultravids seem to have much more of this static friction, a fact that I do not find surprising given that they (unlike the BA/BN) use titanium in their unlubricated focusing system (actually, according to posts here on Birdforum, Leica has begun lubricating the full-sized Ultravid models to overcome this problem. Was this info reliable, or just a rumor?). Titanium is notoriously sticky--it is NOT self-lubricating and has a strong propensity to bond/seize against itself especially and many other metals to a lesser degree, a fact to which anyone who has a titanium bicycle with titinatium screws and other hardware can attest (we have to use special antiseize lubricants). I am not bothered by the static friction in the Leica focus system, but that may be because I generally use both my index and middle fingers (of my right hand) to focus--one to pull and the other to push, often in dynamic tension/opposition to one another. Folks who like to twiddle the focus with the tip of one finger are likely not to like the Leica focus.
--AP

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by solentbirder

I'm not sure I really buy this as a reason for rough focussing on some BN's. I owned an 8x32 BA and an 8x50 BA for many years and they were both perfectly smooth straight out of the box (I bought them new) and when I sold them they were still working exactly the same.

Unfortunately, since the Leica approach relies upon the precise machining of different metals, there do seem to be manufacturing variations which show up in different models. For whatever reason, the 42mm BA and BN models have always seemed rougher than either the 32 or 50mm versions (I owned and sold an 8 x 32BA and still own a 10 x 50BA and you're right - both were noticeably smoother when new than the 7 x 42 in the beginning).

[FrankD]

Great information gentleman. Thank you for posting it.

The bad new for you Leica fans is that I am returning the 7x42 BNs because of the diopter issue. The good news is that I put an order in for a pair of 8x32 BNs. They are on backorder at the moment but should be in within 2-3 weeks.


...oh, and I bought a pair of the 7x42 new SLCs....shh, don't tell the Mrs....

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by solentbirder

I'm not sure I really buy this as a reason for rough focussing on some BN's. I owned an 8x32 BA and an 8x50 BA for many years and they were both perfectly smooth straight out of the box (I bought them new) and when I sold them they were still working exactly the same.

I have said elsewhere that I think it is a matter of sloppy tolerances in the mechanical parts of an optically superb product. I must admit that this is the first time I hear about rough focus on Trinovids. My own 8x32 has also been silky smooth since 1996. As for the Ultravids: there ARE examples that are silky smooth from the beginning as well. But the percentage of rough ones must be considerably higher than the smooth ones. In the Trinovids, I would guess that the rough focus is an exception. Or has this perception got anything to do with the much more widespread use of the internet these days? When the Trinovids came out, one had hardly the possibilities of worldwide communication we have now.

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by FrankD

. The good news is that I put an order in for a pair of 8x32 BNs. They are on backorder at the moment but should be in within 2-3 weeks.


...oh, and I bought a pair of the 7x42 new SLCs....shh, don't tell the Mrs....

May we conclude that you either won at a lottery or were able to tap a secret resource?

At any rate, those handy 8x32 BNs should become an instant favorite of you.

[FrankD]

May we conclude that you either won at a lottery or were able to tap a secret resource?

At any rate, those handy 8x32 BNs should become an instant favorite of you.
__________________

Robert,

I want to apologize for not replying sooner but I totally missed your post.

You could say more of the latter. I have/had to sell some things to make up the difference (anyone interested in some 8x42 Nikon Venturers?) and the Mrs. still isn't going to be totally happy when she sees the credit card bill despite my ability to pay a majority of it.

Oh, and I did change my mind once again. I have another pair of 7x42 Trinovids on order instead of the 8x32s. I just cannot say enough about how pleasurable I find the 7x magnification coupled with a 6 mm exit pupil. None of the 8x32s seem to give me an image entirely comparable to the 7x42 mm models I have tried. They (7x42s) are all so very bright with such a wide field. I think I have finally found my ideal configuration. I cannot wait to compare my 7x42s side by side under birding conditions. It should be a blast!

[ceasar]

Frank,
I know you will be pleased with the 7 x 42's! Some people complain about their weight but they forget about how it contributes to their admirable qualities as a defensive weapon. Should you be attacked, unawares, by an enraged Cassowary, you can use the binocular to beat it to death and then sit back and examine the carcass with the 7 x 42's superb optics! I have heard that this is the very reason it is the best selling binocular among birders who frequent NYC's Central Park. "STAND BACK! THIS IS A LEICA TRINOVID I'M HOLDING HERE!" It's a much better defensive weapon than a screwdriver! It is a shame that Leica saw fit to abandon this life saving feature when they went to lighter weight Ultravids. Titanium just won't make it under those conditions! It's Achilles Heel is, of course, it's focusing wheel, which is a bit too rough for some birder's sensitive forefingers. This was designed in with it's other legendary toughness attributes and it is not recomended that the user continually fiddle with it in order to smooth it out lest one become afflicted with "fiddler's finger," a malady related to tennis elbow but curiously limited to Leica users!

And so, I sign off with that old Leica slogan: "Get your bird with your Trinovid."

Cordially,
Bob

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by FrankD

Robert,

I want to apologize for not replying sooner but I totally missed your post.

You could say more of the latter. I have/had to sell some things to make up the difference (anyone interested in some 8x42 Nikon Venturers?) and the Mrs. still isn't going to be totally happy when she sees the credit card bill despite my ability to pay a majority of it.

Oh, and I did change my mind once again. I have another pair of 7x42 Trinovids on order instead of the 8x32s. I just cannot say enough about how pleasurable I find the 7x magnification coupled with a 6 mm exit pupil. None of the 8x32s seem to give me an image entirely comparable to the 7x42 mm models I have tried. They (7x42s) are all so very bright with such a wide field. I think I have finally found my ideal configuration. I cannot wait to compare my 7x42s side by side under birding conditions. It should be a blast!

Now you must REALLY do a lot of binocular juggling! In another thread, I recall you said you had now got 7x42 FLs. So, meanwhile, you have changed again to the Leicas. Or do you mean to say you'll pretty soon have two different 7x42 models, a Zeiss FL and a Leica Trinovid? I think I would go crazy if I changed my binoculars that often. But part of that difference is probably that I tend to KEEP my old optics when I get a new one. Which would mean things would really run into a fair bit of additional money needed.

[FrankD]

Frank,
I know you will be pleased with the 7 x 42's! Some people complain about their weight but they forget about how it contributes to their admirable qualities as a defensive weapon.

Bob,

Your post made me chuckle. :-) Almost as much as that post in one of these forums about how folks mispronounce the binocular manufacturers' names.....Sharvorskis! Ha! That one still makes me laugh even as I type this.

Now you must REALLY do a lot of binocular juggling! In another thread, I recall you said you had now got 7x42 FLs. So, meanwhile, you have changed again to the Leicas. Or do you mean to say you'll pretty soon have two different 7x42 models, a Zeiss FL and a Leica Trinovid? I think I would go crazy if I changed my binoculars that often. But part of that difference is probably that I tend to KEEP my old optics when I get a new one. Which would mean things would really run into a fair bit of additional money needed.
__________________

Dare I admit the truth? I have gone off the deep end once and for all and just decided to satisfy my id. I have always lusted after owning at least one of each of the top end manufacturers' bins. Initially I thought I might try to buy a different one each year assuming I found reasonable prices.....

Yes, I did buy a 7x42 Zeiss FL that I totally fell in love with. It has the widest and brightest view of any bin I have ever looked through..and the images are so sharp! Add to that the fact that it is noticeably lighter and more contoured than any of the other high end bins I have owned/handled (exclude the 7x Ultravid as it is actually smaller). I did not even realize until two nights ago that the 7x FL is actually shorter and lighter than the 8x and 10x FLs as well.

However, I seemed to notice a problem with the right barrel when star testing them a few nights ago. I did the right thing and sent them to Zeiss USA in Virginia for them to give the bins the once over.

I subsequently took the Venturers out hawkwatching and, though they give a superb image, could not once again get accustomed to the slightly dimmer and narrower image of the 8x42s. So back to Cabelas I went with the full intention of buying an 8x32 FL (wider field of view than the 8x42 LXs) or possibly the 8x40 Zeiss Conquest ABKs (brighter image with the Abbe-Koenig prisms). However, I could only look at the 8x40 Conquests, 8x30 Conquests (which I still think offer stellar image quality at their price point) and the 8x32 Ultravids. Cabelas has decided not to carry the 8x32 FLs in their retail stores. Catalog orders only. Though the Ultravids offered the finest image of the three I just wasn't as comfortable with them ergonomically because of their small size or optically because of the slightly dimmer image and smaller exit pupil(in comparison to the 42 mm and/or 7x versions of other bins). All of these models went back into the case and I decided to look at the 7x and 8x 42 mm FLs. I asked for the 8x and the store employee handed me a pair. Wow! What a view! I instantly flipped them over and saw that they were the same 7x configuration that I had sent back for repair. I compared them to the 8x's (which the employee eventually retrieved from behind the counter) and much preferred the brighter image and wider field of view of the 7x's. However, owning two 7x Zeiss FLs was not something I was sanely considering. I believe in having a solid backup but not necessarily the same bin.

So, I knew I wanted another 7x high end bin and I knew that I was fairly happy with the Swarovski SLCs that I had owned previously. I asked to see them and once again became excited with their extremely relaxed and wide, flat field of view. The build quality is truly superb and they are probably the only bins I have ever handled that I would call "elegant". After a few minutes I just decided that I was going to put a second mortgage on the house and sell a few other items so I bought them.

On the ride home I deliberated over the 8x32 Leicas and was initially planning on canceling the order all together. But, the more I thought about it the more I decided that now was the time to finally appease that desire to own a bin from each of the top of the line companies. I am going to have to sell one or two other items and really save up on the money from my second job but I believe it is going to be worth it. So, when I got home I called Cabelas customer service (catalog not retail store) and asked them to change my order to the 7x42 Trinovids. They are due in tomorrow afternoon.

So, there you have it. I have "come clean" so to speak. The Venturers and SLCs are in my possession as I type this. The Trinovids are due in tomorrow and the FLs should hopefully be back in my hands relatively shortly.

Now I have to come up with a substantial amount of money by mid October to pay off the Cabelas Visa or the wife will have my head.