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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 17:32   #1
AJDH
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Juvenile shrike, eastern Saudi Arabia

Here's another confusing juvenile in it's first winter plumage. My gut reaction is woodchat shrike but I'd like confirmation, one way or another.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...cat/500/page/1
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:10   #2
Jane Turner
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Got any more pics?

It should be a Woodchat. Some of the scaps are pale - but I can't see a big scap patch. Likewise I can't see a pale pimary patch. The tail looks a little long and rather rusty - but that might just be a camera trick. Oh and there is no barring on the flanks.

I'd like to see it from the side or behind - just to rule out Isabelline
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:19   #3
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I don't believe that this bird is Woodchat Shrike.
I'm not sure, but in my mind, it reminds more Masked Shrike.
But it is very difficult surely to id from this photo.
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:23   #4
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Masked Shrike would explain the tail length - but there is still no primary patch, no obvious big scapular patch and that tail is ever so rusty....
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:23   #5
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The tail looks too long for a Woodchat but the bill looks too big for a Masked. I think Jane might be on the right lines and some more photos would indeed be useful.......

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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:28   #6
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Looking closer - the pale feather are lesser coverts. I can see no pale scaps.

Since we are in Red-backed/Isabelline territory I'm edging towards Isabelline on the clean flanks.....but need more photos!
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 18:44   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Turner
Looking closer - the pale feather are lesser coverts. I can see no pale scaps.

Since we are in Red-backed/Isabelline territory I'm edging towards Isabelline on the clean flanks.....but need more photos!
Sorry Jane, the wife called me away from the computer. I have one other photo but it's much the same as the first.

Funny thing is, last time I posted a picture as an isabelline, it turned out to be a woodchat in first winter plumage. I can't win.
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 19:19   #8
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the figures and colour of greater coverts refers probably most to isabelline, but pale flanks are not so typical for the species?
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 19:56   #9
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Looks most like an isabelline, however, it looks a bit different from the vagrant one I saw in Lewis last month! Maybe it's a darker end of the variation for the 'Turkestan' subsp?? rather than a 'Daurian'?

That said the rather pale scalloped forehead, rather dark ear covert patch and lack of underpart barring are a bit odd (they are known to be rather variable over their range mind).

Also is the outer tail feather on the slightly graduated tail short enough for a Brown?? prob not??

Cheers
Andrew
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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 20:32   #10
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A first winter phoenicuroides is my vote. Notice BTW how the bill lost a lot of 'weight' in second image. The pale underparts, brownish upperparts (colder than isabellinus, but some may be similar) obvious supercilium, blackish ear covert patcht, small, not very obvious primary patch strong indication for phoenicuroides.

Some good ones here of both isabellinus and phoenicuroides:

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/se...2cb12f208e3f21

JanJ

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Old Monday 16th October 2006, 21:00   #11
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Thanks all, isabelline it is then.
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