[pduxon]

Not sure where this should be posted ....

Ok whenever anyone asks about a pair of bins or a scope they usually get told to try the optics first. However the qualifier from some folks is to "then buy it at the cheapest price you can get".

Now uhm is this ethical? The good folks who provide you the opportunity to try the product may not be the cheapest. If we all go and buy from some website, what will we do in five years time when there is no where to compare in the field the latest optics?

No doubt some of you will think I'm daft buy buying hifi has taught me you have to audition your kit. And my opinion of the a bin will be different to Birdman's which will be different to digi birder etc etc

[Karl J]

Whether it's ethical or not, it's the way of the world.

I'll readily admit I'd pay the least possible price I can get away with, just as my employers will pay me the least possible wages they can get away with.

[cuddy]

Bought my bins from a dealer who visits reserves £700, two weeks later same bins in a magazine £520, canny profit margin which would u prefer to pay? has the dealer any ethics?

[Tony_InDevon]

Not very ethical, but why not try at one place and try to negotiate lower price if you can get them cheaper. If they decide they want their larger profit margin, go nextdoor?

[Grousemore]

I think this thread has made a fair point.If everyone tries to screw dealers down to the lowest possible price,then forget trying before buying and after sales service.
Specialised optics dealers provide a service and an expertise and at the same time everyone has to make a living.The Walmart approach to life has its limitations!

[Option1]

I do a LOT of my shopping online these days. However, if I went to someone to try out some gear (and the service was good) then I'd probably buy from them, provided the price difference was within about 10-15% of what I pay online.

I still think there is a need to support the local shops (for local people) as well. However, bad service, significantly higher prices, poor return/warranty service are things that will drive me straight out the door and straight to my computer.

Neil

[Focalpoint]

Originally posted by pduxon
Not sure where this should be posted ....

Ok whenever anyone asks about a pair of bins or a scope they usually get told to try the optics first. However the qualifier from some folks is to "then buy it at the cheapest price you can get".

Now uhm is this ethical? The good folks who provide you the opportunity to try the product may not be the cheapest. If we all go and buy from some website, what will we do in five years time when there is no where to compare in the field the latest optics?

No doubt some of you will think I'm daft buy buying hifi has taught me you have to audition your kit. And my opinion of the a bin will be different to Birdman's which will be different to digi birder etc etc

This is the number one problem all retailers face.

The retailer has to balance Service, stock availability, Choice & value against what the customer wants, all of the above and the cheapest price.

I personaly always give a discount off the recomended price of optics, books etc and would hope that having used our time & stock to make the right choice the customer would at least give us the opertunity to match or better a price or offer given by another dealer.

Lets put it this way, if you did a days work for your employer and then he paid you less than the going rate just because an unemployed person said he would do the same job for less! how happy would you be

Retailing is one of the few jobs that you do all the work first and then hope you get paid

Don't get me wrong I like a bargain as much as the next man but my moto is to buy from the experts what ever the product, and when it comes down to price tell the retailer you want a good deal, if you are up front from the start you both know how you stand.

I could give a whole list of reasons why you should buy from retailers, just bear in mind that when you have a problem or need help or a small favour we are only a call away or the other side of the counter

If you want to buy at the cheapest price then thats your right its your hard earned money, however if you want to look at a product to see if its suitable then send for a catalogue

[Tony_InDevon]

Originally posted by Focalpoint
I personaly always give a discount off the recomended price of optics, books etc and would hope that having used our time & stock to make the right choice the customer would at least give us the opertunity to match or better a price or offer given by another dealer.

I think that this is the kind of service that most of us wish for

I only use local photographic stores (ie within about 20 - 30 minutes drive time of home) so in real terms they are competing only locally for my trade. I suppose most of them get a few hundred pounds of my money each year, but what percentage is down to negotiation on each item.

[birdman]

To summarise, I think... when I purchase anything, I always try to get the best value for money.

That doesn't always mean cheapest, and it doesn't always mean that I benefit personally from all the value!

[pduxon]

Originally posted by cuddy
Bought my bins from a dealer who visits reserves £700, two weeks later same bins in a magazine £520, canny profit margin which would u prefer to pay? has the dealer any ethics?

Do you know I find myself agreeing with birdman again. I put it down to me being awake at some unearthly hours of a Sunday morning.

Seriously I wouldn't pay £180 extra but I wouldn't balk at paying some premium for good service.

And please god no to the walmart approach.

[Leif]

I for one don't think it ethical to walk into a shop knowing before hand that you will buy elsewhere after trying out the goods. Of course there is nothing stopping you doing it except conscience.

In the case of optics we really do need dealers who let us try out 4 or 5 competing products in a relaxed environment.

Most dealers will as FocalPoint suggests do a decent match when asked. I don't mind a small premium (5%) for the benefit of good sales advice and help. I guess that a mail order only outfit has much lower overheads than a shop so I can understand why the shop charges more.

I recently asked InFocus to price match and they said no, so I walked. Was it really worth losing a sale? What's more a few weeks later they brought the price down anyway!

I wonder what people think about price matching by big shops such as Jessops? I recently bought a film scanner. I could have asked Jessops to match the cheap price offered by a small outfit called Digital First. I didn't because I want DF to stay in business. The more competition the better. (Anyone remember when Jessops was dirt cheap, and customers formed queues hundreds of metres long?)

[pete schofield]

My own personal view is to always if at all possible buy locally.

WHY.

None or very little travelling to see the goods (this cost should be costed into the final price you pay).

Keep the local traders trading or you can't do the above.

Should you have a problem with the goods it is easier to get it sorted (no travelling packing post etc).

For example i have just bought a new printer local shops are PC World, Dixons, Jessops and Comet. Checked out the retailers that sold the particular model I was looking for and bought at the cheapest. I could have got this printer of the internet and saved about £30 but should anything go wrong with it, it would cost this amount to return to the retailer.

Pete

[Dave Sherry]

I suppose it is a bit like milk on the doorstep!! How amny of us have milkmen anymore? How many milkmen are there now that supermarkets sell it cheaper?

Lets hope local specialist retailers, be it optics or vegetables, don't go the same way.

No Walmart (Asda in the UK), please.

[Kiki]

On the island, it is often impossible to try goods before buying them or indeed get hold of them at all! In the last six months we have purchased the Swarovski scope and just this week the new Zeiss bins. Both of these purchases have been made over the internet as to go into a local optical shop and ask for something like that gets met with blank stares and a maybe we could order it for you sometime next week. (sorry, bit of a soapbox subject). Due to CJW's hobbies (birding, guitars) it would be much easier for me to make local purchases but, due to the attitude of local shopkeepers (not all of them I might add), in the last couple of years we have made a number of purchases over the internet for items that we would normally have bough locally.
BTW, the purchases have been made from specialist retailers in the UK who just happen to have websites and are very helpful when you phone and speak to them.

[postcardcv]

Was just reading some interesting points of view on this thread. In the last year I have upgraded both my bins and scope and bought a travel scope for my wife to use. On all three occassions I tried out a large number of products on numerous visits to a local retailer before deciding on what to go for.
On all three occassions the stores prices were higher than online stores, however for both my scope and bins the local store ended up giving me a better deal in the end.

I would certainly be happy to pay a bit more for the sort of service I received. The chance to line up 4 or 5 scopes side by side in different light conditions and spend a couple of hours looking through them was vital in allowing me to make choose the right scope.

[AndyC]

Just to echo some of the earlier points re the convience v value for money debate.

I was recently looking for a new computer. After checking out various mail order/online outlets, my local Dixons store put together a package to my specification. It took them time and some effort but they got the sale and I got a cracking deal.

Now the printer has broken. Because a shop is only a few hundred yards away I can take the printer and exchange it. I don't have to send it away to some P O Box somewhere at my expense and possibly wait weeks for its return. So shopping locally worked well in this case.

AndyC