• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Mongolian Gull in California? (1 Viewer)

i used the pictures to practice writing gull notes, here is what i have:

Unknown Gull sp.
March 10th, Petaluma, CA

overall, a white gull with bits of brown and black. black-tipped pink bill, dark, reddish? eye, lightly brown streaked nape, mantle and back lightly mottled, along with scapulars & rump. Primaries 1-6 brown, along with primary coverts corresponding to them. lesser and median coverts lightly barred, greater coverts mostly white except for innermost, which are also barred. secondaries are black (appear as a black line) except for outer 2 or 3. wide black terminal band on tail. mottled flanks & belly? flesh-colored legs. tertials are lighter brown than primaries.

what do you think? this is what i scribbled on a little memo pad, a first try at real notetaking. i used the gull anatomy diagrams from Grant. Is that detailed enough? Is there a link to the discussion?
 
Interesting bird. I'm not familiar with Mongolian Gull or its identification at all to really make an educated guess. Vega seems a more likely candidate but I've learned never to rule anything out. Now we wait for JanJ.
 
nctexasbirder said:
Is there a link to the discussion?
Nope, you've got to physically go to Yahoo, create (if you don't already have) a Yahoo ID (which is free), go to Yahoo's "groups" home, and join the "Calbirds" group. :t:
 
I have some experience here in Japan with Mongolian and Vegae and that looks pretty good for a Mongolian - Larus cachinaans mongolicus.

It shows the following characteristics of a late 1st winter Mongolian, moulting into 1st summer

1) Light inner primaries - should be nearly all dark in Vegae (though some have lighter inner primaries, but usually gong furtehr onto P5 or P6)
2) Narrow brown tail band - usually darker and wider in Vegae with wider white trailing edge
3) pale coverts and forewing - usually darker in Vegae (though again there are some pale individuals)
4) pale rump - always darker in Vegae
5) Classic bill pattern and size, dark at tip and pinkish -usually all dark or with a bluish base with black tip on Vegae

The overall size suggests a male. However, there are some anomalies.

1) This bird has a pale eye, not right for Vegae or Mongolian in 1st winter, but perhaps this is because it is moving into it's second year.

2) It doesn't appear to have quite as extensive a white rump as a lot of Mongolians have.

This is just my humble opinion, but I am sure JanJ has something to add!
 
Last edited:
Katy Penland said:
Nope, you've got to physically go to Yahoo, create (if you don't already have) a Yahoo ID (which is free), go to Yahoo's "groups" home, and join the "Calbirds" group. :t:

Hi All,

You can also try this link, though as Katy suggests, you must be a Calbirds Yahoo member to post.

http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CALB.html#1173545846

Scroll upward for the newer posts.

Chris
 
Hi Katy & all.

I have seen this on Calbirds and the one Katy linked. Also here:

http://ronstorey.com/Lucchesi/index.html

Interesting gull which doesn´t strike you as a Mongolian Gull. Firstly - the age of the gull is essential to establish.
Being in Marsh a 1st winter would have pointed and more worn primaries and slightly different upperparts, on the subject gull there are some grey feathers which is more in line with 2nd winter (now 3cy), but there´s some variation (as in Herring Gull), some 3cy mongolicus have nearly fully grey upperparts:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/051118/mongolicus2w.htm

The tail band is more clear-cut and narrower in 1st winter mongolicus with barring above tail band and usually all dark bill, some are pale based and slightly more blunt-tipped:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/060124/mongolia.htm

http://starling.dyndns.org/~birdkitahiro/hokkaido/gulls/gullindex/mongol/1w08.htm

The inner primaries are pale as the subject gull but note the dark subterminal markings near the tip on all inners in the linked mongolicus.

Have a look at different ages here:

http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2007/feb/2007020501.htm

I agree with Alvaro Jaramillo except I think it´s a 3cy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS/message/6077

JanJ
 
JANJ said:
Hi Katy & all.

I have seen this on Calbirds and the one Katy linked. Also here:

http://ronstorey.com/Lucchesi/index.html

Interesting gull which doesn´t strike you as a Mongolian Gull. Firstly - the age of the gull is essential to establish.
Being in Marsh a 1st winter would have pointed and more worn primaries and slightly different upperparts, on the subject gull there are some grey feathers which is more in line with 2nd winter (now 3cy), but there´s some variation (as in Herring Gull), some 3cy mongolicus have nearly fully grey upperparts:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/051118/mongolicus2w.htm

The tail band is more clear-cut and narrower in 1st winter mongolicus with barring above tail band and usually all dark bill, some are pale based and slightly more blunt-tipped:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/060124/mongolia.htm

http://starling.dyndns.org/~birdkitahiro/hokkaido/gulls/gullindex/mongol/1w08.htm

The inner primaries are pale as the subject gull but note the dark subterminal markings near the tip on all inners in the linked mongolicus.

Have a look at different ages here:

http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2007/feb/2007020501.htm

I agree with Alvaro Jaramillo except I think it´s a 3cy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS/message/6077

JanJ

Hey JanJ

Wow! You just blew away my rather pathetic attempt to try and help ID this gull. I had a feeling it wasn't a 1st winter, due to the grey on the mantle and the pale eye. You are a gull master a 'samurai' compare to my lowly 'ronin' status!

I initially thought the tail band was quite slim, compared to a lot of Vegae I have seen and photographed, as well as comparing to photos in the various books I have, but I have to admit it did seem rather wide. I am not sure about the barring above the tail band being exclusive to Mongolian, but JanJ has studied this more than me!:brains:

For Mongolian I think the bill is usually nearly all dark for most of the winter, but starts to get a pink base by the end of winter going into summer and eventually looks not unlike the bird in this photo.

I hadn't really looked at the inner primaries closely enough and realize that Jan is right about the dark subterminal markings near the tip on all the inners.

Guess I am gonna have to hit my local gull roost again and hit the books again!

Sean :-O
 
Last edited:
Hi Sean.

Here are some 1st winter Vega Gulls to illustrate the similarity of some of them to Mongolian Gull. Note the usually darker underparts of Vega:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/050224v/vegagull1w.htm

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/040403/vegae1w.html

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/040326/vegae.html

Mongolian:

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/050315/mongo.htm

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/040319/mongolicus1w.html

Also these from Korea April:

http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2005/apr/0401.htm

The 6 first ones and figs. 25, 27, 29, 30,31 & 24 is what we would call 1st winter Vega Gulls and the ones in fig 15, 18 & 19 Mongolian Gulls but what about the three in fig. 16?

JanJ
 
Warning! This thread is more than 17 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top