[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by Veracocha

And there you go again, wide of the mark.

Ok please let us know your detailed plans for the management of the reserve. I'm sure your experience of the Solway Firth will stand you in good stead. Seriously, please explain in detail where you think we're going wrong.

[Veracocha]

Originally Posted by Woodchat

Ok please let us know your detailed plans for the management of the reserve. I'm sure your experience of the Solway Firth will stand you in good stead. Seriously, please explain in detail where you think we're going wrong.

You really need to come down from your high horse. You shot a man down for offering a suggestion of a possible change to the forum despite telling us how tolerant you are and how we are all entitled to an opinion. My response was directly aimed at that attack, it has sweet FA to do with the management of the reserve to which I have conceded knowing next to nothing about habitat conservation.

You have completely missed the point and tried once again to belittle someone who hasn't your vast wealth of knowledge of UW despite asking for some information. I will put this down to someone hitting a "raw nerve" as you say but this doesn't give you the right to dictate how people post on this forum. Climb down.

[upstarts1979]

Originally Posted by Veracocha

Guys, I'm one of the uneducated as to habitat conservation on the smallish scale that I consider UW to be. What would really happen if the reserve was left to it's own natural devices. I can go and read a book for sure but an abridged version would be helpful if anyone can help I genuinly would like to understand.

I am not one of the moaners and don't get the opportunity to get there often enough (once in six months) but my experiences are of some of the largest reserves in the country (Solway/Wigtown) which are pretty much left unmolested yet thrive. Hope someone can help.

The management there (Solway/Wigtown) is the tide...we are trying to turn back the tide of natural progression. Which in simple terms...would turn a marsh land( reedbed) into a oak woodland in 30 years . We are constantly working with and sometimes against nature. If the Trust wanted a scrubby damp woodland then we could leave the Moors alone. The Flashes can manage itself in one sense, ie the salt will kill off the non salt tolerant plant species. Unfortunately to maximise the habitat for waders, we have to manipulate the water levels. We also now have to ensure that the natural succession of the encroaching reeds doesn't encircle the whole of the open shoreline. The islands which are above the salt line will be choked by dominant species such as docks and teazel. This will in a short time curtail any breeding by waders.
So all in all we could leave it to nature and within 3 years there would be no breeding waders, terns or ducks but we would probably have more reed warblers. But you wouldn't see anything on the Flashes and wader passage would be a thing of the past. Blue tits and corvids would proliferate in the new Moors woodland and coot and moorhens would also increase in the few remaining areas of wetland.
Most of our work goes on just keeping the status quo, This last couple of years have seen a lot of woodland management and its this that causes most of the consternation at present. In simple terms when you coppice or pollard a tree you are prolonging its life and at the same time you are opening up the surrounding area. This in turn allows the flora to become more diverse which in turn increase the insect life and ultimately provides more food for more nesting birds. The structural diversity of the resultant scrub and woodland provides more diverse nesting opportunities for a wide range of species.and also increase butterfly populations.
I have gone on a bit, but I feel very passionate about the whole reserve and I cannot understand how there can be so much opposition to what we are trying to and in most cases achieving from our endeavours.
Suffice to say that if we stopped the work parties for just one year a great deal would be lost.
Its not for me to say how other people feel but a personal sense of making that difference is enough for me to continue until I am physically unable to do so. I could go on but even after 28 yerars there is always something new to learn about Upton.
John

[binus1963]

thought i'd put a few pics on from last few days visits, thought the hide was a lot better than i'd expected it to be, nice to be back on the flashes again, enjoyed reading the thread lately who's on here hayes and chisora! don't ya just love it.

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by Veracocha

You really need to come down from your high horse. You shot a man down for offering a suggestion of a possible change to the forum despite telling us how tolerant you are and how we are all entitled to an opinion. My response was directly aimed at that attack, it has sweet FA to do with the management of the reserve to which I have conceded knowing next to nothing about habitat conservation.

You have completely missed the point and tried once again to belittle someone who hasn't your vast wealth of knowledge of UW despite asking for some information. I will put this down to someone hitting a "raw nerve" as you say but this doesn't give you the right to dictate how people post on this forum. Climb down.

I Certainly never intended to belittle anyone. Tolerance is a two-way-street and if it seems I've been less than tolerant then I sincereley apologise to anyone thinks I have for that. My beleif is that this forum is all the richer for the diverse opinion, banter and any random comments. I probably react too stongly to people who try to restrict its content but I seriously think it would be diminished if it was reduced to meer 'bird news'. If you disagree with this then we will just agree to disagree. As Voltaire said, 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it'.

[binus1963]

ya can only put 5 on at a time.

[Veracocha]

Originally Posted by upstarts1979

The management there (Solway/Wigtown) is the tide...we are trying to turn back the tide of natural progression. Which in simple terms...would turn a marsh land( reedbed) into a oak woodland in 30 years . We are constantly working with and sometimes against nature. If the Trust wanted a scrubby damp woodland then we could leave the Moors alone. The Flashes can manage itself in one sense, ie the salt will kill off the non salt tolerant plant species. Unfortunately to maximise the habitat for waders, we have to manipulate the water levels. We also now have to ensure that the natural succession of the encroaching reeds doesn't encircle the whole of the open shoreline. The islands which are above the salt line will be choked by dominant species such as docks and teazel. This will in a short time curtail any breeding by waders.
So all in all we could leave it to nature and within 3 years there would be no breeding waders, terns or ducks but we would probably have more reed warblers. But you wouldn't see anything on the Flashes and wader passage would be a thing of the past. Blue tits and corvids would proliferate in the new Moors woodland and coot and moorhens would also increase in the few remaining areas of wetland.
Most of our work goes on just keeping the status quo, This last couple of years have seen a lot of woodland management and its this that causes most of the consternation at present. In simple terms when you coppice or pollard a tree you are prolonging its life and at the same time you are opening up the surrounding area. This in turn allows the flora to become more diverse which in turn increase the insect life and ultimately provides more food for more nesting birds. The structural diversity of the resultant scrub and woodland provides more diverse nesting opportunities for a wide range of species.and also increase butterfly populations.
I have gone on a bit, but I feel very passionate about the whole reserve and I cannot understand how there can be so much opposition to what we are trying to and in most cases achieving from our endeavours.
Suffice to say that if we stopped the work parties for just one year a great deal would be lost.
Its not for me to say how other people feel but a personal sense of making that difference is enough for me to continue until I am physically unable to do so. I could go on but even after 28 yerars there is always something new to learn about Upton.
John

Very informative John, thank you. Salt/Flashes, I had no idea. Why would anyone oppose the work that is being carried out then? what skin is it off anyones nose or is it the trust who have an objection?

[PeterE]

Can I sweeten the mood a little by saying that my first impressions of the new hide were very favourable? I managed a brief visit in my lunchbreak and although I didn't see many birds I thought the visibility at both the front and the sides was much improved. It also felt very solid and the wood surfaces were smooth and reassuring. I am looking forward to much longer sessions there.

Although there were few birds to be seen I thought that there was much more birdsong around the Hen Pool hide than of late, not just Robins. Has anyone else noticed this or is it my wishful thinking?

Peter

[Veracocha]

Originally Posted by Woodchat

I Certainly never intended to belittle anyone. Tolerance is a two-way-street and if it seems I've been less than tolerant then I sincereley apologise to anyone thinks I have for that. My beleif is that this forum is all the richer for the diverse opinion, banter and any random comments. I probably react too stongly to people who try to restrict its content but I seriously think it would be diminished if it was reduced to meer 'bird news'. If you disagree with this then we will just agree to disagree. As Voltaire said, 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it'.

I don't disagree with what you said and I respect your position when trying to defend the forum as it is but I felt a little uneasy with how it was put across to a relatively new member, that could be a member lost. Hope you can understand that.

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by Veracocha

I don't disagree with what you said and I respect your position when trying to defend the forum as it is but I felt a little uneasy with how it was put across to a relatively new member, that could be a member lost. Hope you can understand that.

Fair enough. Some of my best friends and acquaintancies started in hostile confrontation. What can I say? It's probably just the way I do business. No offence to anyone who may've been offended I just speak my mind and speak with honesty. A member lost would indeed be tragic.

[upstarts1979]

Originally Posted by Veracocha

Very informative John, thank you. Salt/Flashes, I had no idea. Why would anyone oppose the work that is being carried out then? what skin is it off anyones nose or is it the trust who have an objection?

Far from it, the trust are on board with all we are doing and Andy Harris(trust reserve officer) is cutting trees and treating those that are in the wrong place.
They are the professionals and we are singing from the same hymn sheet. I think its the myth that trees are the panacea of life and its sacrilege to touch them, that gets to a lot of uninformed people.
I do also think that there a couple of disconsolate ex work party members that threw their toys out of the pram (who have got their own agenda), that are just bad mouthing everything we do. It is also a personal vendetta against me, but I don't scare easily so they had better up their game.
Unfortunately they are influencing some new members, before we have the chance to have our input. But you cant please all the people all the time. We are a little bit sensitive to unfounded criticism so you will have to bear with us at times we do our best and wont be deterred from doing so.
John

[Phil Andrews]

Originally Posted by binus1963

thought i'd put a few pics on from last few days visits, thought the hide was a lot better than i'd expected it to be, nice to be back on the flashes again, enjoyed reading the thread lately who's on here hayes and chisora! don't ya just love it.

How's the hand coming along Trace?

[Phil Andrews]

Originally Posted by PeterE

Can I sweeten the mood a little by saying that my first impressions of the new hide were very favourable? I managed a brief visit in my lunchbreak and although I didn't see many birds I thought the visibility at both the front and the sides was much improved. It also felt very solid and the wood surfaces were smooth and reassuring. I am looking forward to much longer sessions there.

Although there were few birds to be seen I thought that there was much more birdsong around the Hen Pool hide than of late, not just Robins. Has anyone else noticed this or is it my wishful thinking?
Peter

Hopefully that is the benefit of our scrub management works, which commenced last year, being reaped. Every effect has a cause

[kingfisherajh]

I have to say that in my view the New Hide is not as bad by any means as one might think from listening to the reports on this forum! I have been in it today and can honestly say its absolutely fine - in fact it seems great! It is strong, safe, sturdy, spacious, easy to access, comfortable, warm, draught proof etc etc! Yes there will be issues for certain people but on the whole I think the WWT have done a good job in getting it built, although its construction took a long time to complete I must admit!

Having stayed away from UW for some weeks due to this and the fact that there didn't appear to be much about I was shocked at the desolation that has taken place since my last visit! Scrub Management - I don't understand it if I was honest but surely it has now gone too far? Why not drop a nuclear bomb on the place - it would hardly be more effective! OK perhaps I am uneducated in these matters but why not curtail the work parties now for the breeding season at least and let the place go back to a natural state? It seems to me that the working parties are destroying the place? You may mean well but have you looked at it recently? Someone must be stocking up on logs for the winter from what I and others can see? I just can't see the justification in what has been and is being done as we speak! Can someone please explain why in simple terms for me and others who are confused? I have spoken to a number of members today and expressed my concerns - most of them agree with me! What do other members think?

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by kingfisherajh

I have to say that in my view the New Hide is not as bad by any means as one might think from listening to the reports on this forum! I have been in it today and can honestly say its absolutely fine - in fact it seems great! It is strong, safe, sturdy, spacious, easy to access, comfortable, warm, draught proof etc etc! Yes there will be issues for certain people but on the whole I think the WWT have done a good job in getting it built, although its construction took a long time to complete I must admit!

Having stayed away from UW for some weeks due to this and the fact that there didn't appear to be much about I was shocked at the desolation that has taken place since my last visit! Scrub Management - I don't understand it if I was honest but surely it has now gone too far? Why not drop a nuclear bomb on the place - it would hardly be more effective! OK perhaps I am uneducated in these matters but why not curtail the work parties now for the breeding season at least and let the place go back to a natural state? It seems to me that the working parties are destroying the place? You may mean well but have you looked at it recently? Someone must be stocking up on logs for the winter from what I and others can see? I just can't see the justification in what has been and is being done as we speak! Can someone please explain why in simple terms for me and others who are confused? I have spoken to a number of members today and expressed my concerns - most of them agree with me! What do other members think?

Could'nt disagree more with this, personally.

[Phil Andrews]

Originally Posted by kingfisherajh

I have to say that in my view the New Hide is not as bad by any means as one might think from listening to the reports on this forum! I have been in it today and can honestly say its absolutely fine - in fact it seems great! It is strong, safe, sturdy, spacious, easy to access, comfortable, warm, draught proof etc etc! Yes there will be issues for certain people but on the whole I think the WWT have done a good job in getting it built, although its construction took a long time to complete I must admit!

Having stayed away from UW for some weeks due to this and the fact that there didn't appear to be much about I was shocked at the desolation that has taken place since my last visit! Scrub Management - I don't understand it if I was honest but surely it has now gone too far? Why not drop a nuclear bomb on the place - it would hardly be more effective! OK perhaps I am uneducated in these matters but why not curtail the work parties now for the breeding season at least and let the place go back to a natural state? It seems to me that the working parties are destroying the place? You may mean well but have you looked at it recently? Someone must be stocking up on logs for the winter from what I and others can see? I just can't see the justification in what has been and is being done as we speak! Can someone please explain why in simple terms for me and others who are confused? I have spoken to a number of members today and expressed my concerns - most of them agree with me! What do other members think?

Far from it - the work parties are rejuvinating Upton Warren. They will stop (as they always have done) in time for the breeding season but in the meantime they play a vital role in providing a diverse habitat targeting certain species under pressure. The breeding surveys undertaken last year speak for themselves, I am sure John can break out the stats if you want. Suffice to say that Willow Warbler, a bird lost to the reserve as a breeding species since the earlier 2000s, made a strong comeback and other warbler (incl Blackcap, Lesser Whitethroat, Common Whitethroat etc) all performed well.

As John has alluded to earlier, if we did nothing the reeds would march in, followed by the willows and the whole thing woud soon be a wood, of which there are plenty in Worcestershire. The work is focused on supporting what makes Upton unique. Whilst the scrub management (and its called management for a reason) may appear brutal at first glance, it is the only way to achieve change. I will be the first to admit that we have spent several years not engaging in work in several areas of the reserve through efforts being diverted elsewhere but we now have to play catch-up and we cant tinker around the edges.

Much of the work undertaken at the Moors Pool, where I imagine you are focusing for criticism, is taking it back to where is was 20 odd years ago (John was kind enough to post a series of images a few weeks back). It was never envisaged to have a huge screening woodland opposite Lifestyles and the recent works have taken it back to what was desired in the first place. Unfortunately much of the growth at Upton gets very leggy very quickly, resulting in shading out, little ground vegetation and very tall growth of little use to birds for either nesting or feeding. The thinning out of the trees and creation of dead hedges will not only promote lateral growth but also new bramble patches which will benefit small mammals, butterflies etc as well as breeding birds. Judge it not by what the area looks like now but what it is producing in say 15 months time. The fact that we have worked hand in hand with the Trust on this project demonstrates that they endorse the scrub management work. We have even put signs up around the reserve explaining why this work has been undertaken.

The work undertaken on the reserve by volunteers is founded on detailed research on what methods have been used on other reserves, books and ecology / conversation studies by the RSPB, Natural England and other such bodies, and by detailed observations over many years, both of the birds and how they use the reserve but also of nature's reaction to works we have done in the past.

Like John I am immensely proud of the work parties and what they have achieved over the years and I almost there was a paralell universe so I could demonstrate what the area would be like otherwise. the volunteer pool has now grown to 60 odd (well some of them are!) individuals, but individuals who make up a team. I know if I picked up the phone to call an emergency work party or some overnight wardening or policing a rarity most would respond at the drop of a hat.

Enough breast-beating, I feel like reinstating UPTON-TILL-I-DIE. GRRRRRR!

PS Is that a suggestion thrown in that the works are being driven from a personal gain from cut wood?! Over the years the organisers of the work party have invested many many hours and ££££ of their own money in keeping the work parties in refreshments, petrol, cable ties etc etc. We do it cos we love the place and are trying to do the right thing for it. Simples

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by Phil Andrews

Far from it - the work parties are rejuvinating Upton Warren. They will stop (as they always have done) in time for the breeding season but in the meantime they play a vital role in providing a diverse habitat targeting certain species under pressure. The breeding surveys undertaken last year speak for themselves, I am sure John can break out the stats if you want. Suffice to say that Willow Warbler, a bird lost to the reserve as a breeding species since the earlier 2000s, made a strong comeback and other warbler (incl Blackcap, Lesser Whitethroat, Common Whitethroat etc) all performed well.

As John has alluded to earlier, if we did nothing the reeds would march in, followed by the willows and the whole thing woud soon be a wood, of which there are plenty in Worcestershire. The work is focused on supporting what makes Upton unique. Whilst the scrub management (and its called management for a reason) may appear brutal at first glance, it is the only way to achieve change. I will be the first to admit that we have spent several years not engaging in work in several areas of the reserve through efforts being diverted elsewhere but we now have to play catch-up and we cant tinker around the edges.

Much of the work undertaken at the Moors Pool, where I imagine you are focusing for criticism, is taking it back to where is was 20 odd years ago (John was kind enough to post a series of images a few weeks back). It was never envisaged to have a huge screening woodland opposite Lifestyles and the recent works have taken it back to what was desired in the first place. Unfortunately much of the growth at Upton gets very leggy very quickly, resulting in shading out, little ground vegetation and very tall growth of little use to birds for either nesting or feeding. The thinning out of the trees and creation of dead hedges will not only promote lateral growth but also new bramble patches which will benefit small mammals, butterflies etc as well as breeding birds. Judge it not by what the area looks like now but what it is producing in say 15 months time. The fact that we have worked hand in hand with the Trust on this project demonstrates that they endorse the scrub management work. We have even put signs up around the reserve explaining why this work has been undertaken.

The work undertaken on the reserve by volunteers is founded on detailed research on what methods have been used on other reserves, books and ecology / conversation studies by the RSPB, Natural England and other such bodies, and by detailed observations over many years, both of the birds and how they use the reserve but also of nature's reaction to works we have done in the past.

Like John I am immensely proud of the work parties and what they have achieved over the years and I almost there was a paralell universe so I could demonstrate what the area would be like otherwise. the volunteer pool has now grown to 60 odd (well some of them are!) individuals, but individuals who make up a team. I know if I picked up the phone to call an emergency work party or some overnight wardening or policing a rarity most would respond at the drop of a hat.

Enough breast-beating, I feel like reinstating UPTON-TILL-I-DIE. GRRRRRR!

Nicely summarised Phil. I, too, am proud of the way the management over the past 20 years has arested the widespread development of climax woodland and, thereby, resulted in a much more diverse wetland reserve. The breeding and visiting birds are testament to that.

[upstarts1979]

Originally Posted by kingfisherajh

I have to say that in my view the New Hide is not as bad by any means as one might think from listening to the reports on this forum! I have been in it today and can honestly say its absolutely fine - in fact it seems great! It is strong, safe, sturdy, spacious, easy to access, comfortable, warm, draught proof etc etc! Yes there will be issues for certain people but on the whole I think the WWT have done a good job in getting it built, although its construction took a long time to complete I must admit!

Having stayed away from UW for some weeks due to this and the fact that there didn't appear to be much about I was shocked at the desolation that has taken place since my last visit! Scrub Management - I don't understand it if I was honest but surely it has now gone too far? Why not drop a nuclear bomb on the place - it would hardly be more effective! OK perhaps I am uneducated in these matters but why not curtail the work parties now for the breeding season at least and let the place go back to a natural state? It seems to me that the working parties are destroying the place? You may mean well but have you looked at it recently? Someone must be stocking up on logs for the winter from what I and others can see? I just can't see the justification in what has been and is being done as we speak! Can someone please explain why in simple terms for me and others who are confused? I have spoken to a number of members today and expressed my concerns - most of them agree with me! What do other members think?

If you felt so strong about it , you saw me working with Andy from the Trust why didn't you come and have a discussion about it with us. Instead of bad mouthing me in the hide. Maybe you are talking to the wrong people and being influenced by them and I know who you have been talking to.

[kingfisherajh]

Originally Posted by upstarts1979

If you felt so strong about it , you saw me working with Andy from the Trust why didn't you come and have a discussion about it with us. Instead of bad mouthing me in the hide. Maybe you are talking to the wrong people and being influenced by them and I know who you have been talking to.

I haven't 'bad mouthed' any individual in the hide! I can't even remember your name but I remember you as being a decent guy! That's not the point. I didn't approach you at the time because I didn't understand what you were doing and I hadn't at that point walked from the Moors to the Flashes either to see the changes! Because I am putting forward a point of view, which maybe you and others don't like, you appear to be taking it personal! To me that seems to be the problem with this forum - you don't like to hear other members opinions if they don't fit or other members are afraid to speak out! No doubt your intentions are good but why don't you try getting others on your side instead of dismissing everyone else, including sometimes the WWT, as idiots? Maybe that's why the vast majority of members look at the forum to get information but don't interact with it or are afraid to? Food for thought? I am not afraid to speak out and tell it as it is as you can see but it isn't personal! Maybe I too should follow the others and look but not interact? Not my style though!

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by kingfisherajh

I haven't 'bad mouthed' any individual in the hide! I can't even remember your name but I remember you as being a decent guy! That's not the point. I didn't approach you at the time because I didn't understand what you were doing and I hadn't at that point walked from the Moors to the Flashes either to see the changes! Because I am putting forward a point of view, which maybe you and others don't like, you appear to be taking it personal! To me that seems to be the problem with this forum - you don't like to hear other members opinions if they don't fit or other members are afraid to speak out! No doubt your intentions are good but why don't you try getting others on your side instead of dismissing everyone else, including sometimes the WWT, as idiots? Maybe that's why the vast majority of members look at the forum to get information but don't interact with it or are afraid to? Food for thought? I am not afraid to speak out and tell it as it is as you can see but it isn't personal! Maybe I too should follow the others and look but not interact? Not my style though!

As I've said before, I disagree with most of what you say but you do have some valid points there and I do take on board the fact that some members do disagree with the course of management actions that are carried out. I think we would all be better off if we had some rational (rather than emotional) dialogue so that we could all be represented in our wishes for the future of this gem of a reserve.

[Grayman]

binus1963

Wonderful photos, my fav was the Green Woodpecker.

Thank you

Graham Martin

[Whoever]

Originally Posted by Grayman

binus1963

Wonderful photos, my fav was the Green Woodpecker.

Thank you

Graham Martin

I second that comment, the Green Woody is fantastic!
I hope my attempt to be funny is not the cause for this page's argument. I find this site very nice, funny and informative at the same time. I actually like to look for sightings and stumble across other posts from which I can learn something (mainly statistical formulas ) or have a little laugh about - or both!

[rollingthunder]

You only have to go to Wilden to see how quickly and drastically a habitat can change - The halcyon days of passage waders and wintering Water Pipits are a distant memory. These places have to be 'managed' some areas with them 'micro-managed' if variety of habits are desired. Worcestershire has enough areas of Sallow scrub and alas Wilden is now just another one of those. The Trust should have carried on some sort of management agreement with British Sugar to maintain the bunds and retain the water. Maybe they tried, i do'nt know - I bumped into somebody with his 'volunteer' hat on last year who told me i was'nt allowed to walk around. I thought, where were you 30 years ago mate? Needless to say i carried on birding.............

Somebody find something good at UW soon please.

Laurie

[Phil Andrews]

Originally Posted by rollingthunder

You only have to go to Wilden to see how quickly and drastically a habitat can change - The halcyon days of passage waders and wintering Water Pipits are a distant memory. These places have to be 'managed' some areas with them 'micro-managed' if variety of habits are desired. Worcestershire has enough areas of Sallow scrub and alas Wilden is now just another one of those. The Trust should have carried on some sort of management agreement with British Sugar to maintain the bunds and retain the water. Maybe they tried, i do'nt know - I bumped into somebody with his 'volunteer' hat on last year who told me i was'nt allowed to walk around. I thought, where were you 30 years ago mate? Needless to say i carried on birding.............

Somebody find something good at UW soon please.

Laurie

Thanks Laurie - I was dredging my mind for a local example of a lack of intervention and its result.

Now, as ordered, out into the field to find something decent. Sightings will be posted on here later

[Woodchat]

Originally Posted by rollingthunder

You only have to go to Wilden to see how quickly and drastically a habitat can change - The halcyon days of passage waders and wintering Water Pipits are a distant memory. These places have to be 'managed' some areas with them 'micro-managed' if variety of habits are desired. Worcestershire has enough areas of Sallow scrub and alas Wilden is now just another one of those. The Trust should have carried on some sort of management agreement with British Sugar to maintain the bunds and retain the water. Maybe they tried, i do'nt know - I bumped into somebody with his 'volunteer' hat on last year who told me i was'nt allowed to walk around. I thought, where were you 30 years ago mate? Needless to say i carried on birding.............

Somebody find something good at UW soon please.

Laurie

Having made many visits to Wilden over the years I too lament its passing as a prime birding spot due to lack of effective management. I thought it was widely understood amongst birders and people interested in wildlife that eutrophic lakes and wetlands are transient habitats that will disappear eventually forming climax woodland if left to their own devices. Actively managing them by removing trees and invading scrub is the only way to slow down this process. Maybe I mistakenly take it for granted that anyone interested in Wildlife would know this already.

Anyhow, a beautiful spring morning here on the flashes, three Redpolls, two Treecreepers, two Gadwalls, one Meadow Pipit, Skylark, Green Woodpecker and lots of early songsters are the best I can come up with so far. Onwards to the Ed Res.