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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 10:52   #1
ed keeble
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Ed's thread

Greetings all. Succumbed to the lure of Hayle WB Diver earlier in the week- there's just something about the big divers. A certain placid swarthy presence that nothing else can match (except possibly a bison, if that makes any sense as a comparison).

Anyway, squandered far too much time on close-ups with the evil Nikon, but came away with a painting firmly in mind of a croc-style attack on couple of Little Grebes. Attached are my working drawings so far of the episode pretty much as seen and recalled - first is the usual biro + finger painted coffee combo (no idea why I gave it a Black-throated Diver's head), second is scanned in and recomposed with head kneaded into shape, third with a digi-splash of colour to help work out where the light and dark will go.

But the plan is that the end result will be a proper painting on proper paper, using pencil, brushes, paint, all that stuff...the main technical problems current and expected (apart from remembering how to use paint) are how to maintain enough distance btween WBD and the grebes without having a hole in the middle of the painting- as the grebes lifted off at some distance when they saw monster boy coming. Also challenging will be the water - the strongest feature of the scene in true life was the shiny lines of WBD's wake (more obvious than the bird itself) crossing the more feeble wind blown ripples on the water.
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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 11:57   #2
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Look forward to seeing this develop, Ed.
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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 13:41   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timwootton
Look forward to seeing this develop, Ed.
Likewise here Ed! Looks like a nice beast, have spent a bit of time at Hayle, great site....
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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 14:11   #4
ed keeble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard12
....have spent a bit of time at Hayle, great site....
mmm Hayle..my careful notes (ha ha) record that I was last there 20 years ago in October 1987 at the tail end of brief twitching career- Mrs K says better my midlife crisis takes the form of a very occasional relapse into twitching than tight jeans and sports cars and she is probably right.
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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 14:38   #5
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Neat idea Ed, count me in for looking forward to developments too.

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Old Monday 19th March 2007, 16:59   #6
peter mathios
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Looks like a great idea! Looking forward to the progress.
www.mathiosstudios.net
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2007, 09:46   #7
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ditto to the above waiting to see the progress
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2007, 10:34   #8
nickderry
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interesting idea, I love the sort of pics where you have several species that you don't expect to see together. Looking forward to the progress.

To avoid a hole in the middle, you need to find some sort of link between the diver and the grebes, this could be some ripples attaching them, or a reflection, something that moves the composition along from one element to the next.
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2007, 11:03   #9
ed keeble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickderry
interesting idea, I love the sort of pics where you have several species that you don't expect to see together. Looking forward to the progress.

To avoid a hole in the middle, you need to find some sort of link between the diver and the grebes, this could be some ripples attaching them, or a reflection, something that moves the composition along from one element to the next.
Indeedy- the key will be where I place the dark water and the bright patches where there are windblown ripples

I might need to steal (I mean "use as reference") your Little Grebe posted yesterday...
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2007, 16:54   #10
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Go for it! I always try to incorporate methods that work for other people!
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Old Wednesday 21st March 2007, 08:43   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickderry
interesting idea, I love the sort of pics where you have several species that you don't expect to see together. Looking forward to the progress.
Going with the theme of species you don't normally see together, check this
out - something of a similar idea to what you are trying to pull Ed.

Couldn't resist adding one more link - two more species very much 'together' - can you guess what the one inside is?

Likewise look forward to seeing yours progress by the way (definitely preferable to tight jeans and a sports car!)

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Old Wednesday 21st March 2007, 09:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
Going with the theme of species you don't normally see together, check this
out - something of a similar idea to what you are trying to pull Ed.

Dave
Nice to hear from you. That Finfoot is a clever parallel- not too sure about the blue ripples, but I guess for $11,400 you would expect a bit of colour..
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Old Wednesday 21st March 2007, 15:11   #13
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Couldn't resist adding one more link - two more species very much 'together' - can you guess what the one inside is? //Quote Dave B




Looks how I felt after leaving Club Wooton last night after a few scoops, I was definitely overserved and as a result bought far to many kebabs at the local take away...

I'd say he's had a large Doner Dave...(pork variety!)

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Old Wednesday 21st March 2007, 17:03   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard12
Couldn't resist adding one more link - two more species very much 'together' - can you guess what the one inside is? //Quote Dave B


I'd say he's had a large Doner Dave...(pork variety!)
Pigs are very long bodied (see distinctive jizz of a swallowed pig in the first two pics here, assuming human has been correctly ruled out)

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/animals/anaconda.asp

so I guess goat or similar..
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Old Thursday 22nd March 2007, 00:59   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed keeble
Pigs are very long bodied (see distinctive jizz of a swallowed pig in the first two pics here, assuming human has been correctly ruled out)

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/animals/anaconda.asp

so I guess goat or similar..
Close. According to this site it was a pregnant ewe. I first saw this pic at a photo exhibition at a motorway service station here, where, if my memory serves, it was stated that the victim was a calf.

Dave

PS While googling 'python', I came across this, which, while somewhat tangential to the original topic, is still well worth a look!
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 00:25   #16
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Here's another ongoing project at the ultra fiddly digi-illustration end of the spectrum (sorry Tim- digipainting hasn't gone away, just keeping a low profile whilst so much real bird art is pinging about). This should turn into 3 Nordmann's Greenshank as the poster for this year's campaign against rampant mudflat reclamation in South Korea (last year's Spoon-billed Sandpiper previously posted). Currently locked in deep email discussions about breast profile, crown shape..head versus body size... Tiny changes make a big difference and it's a real test of discipline after the intial spontaneous first draft.
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 01:18   #17
nickderry
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I really like the composition sketch for these shanks, would have been proud to have done it myself, as for digipainting, to me it's a valid art form (as is photography btw - as long as there's a passion in it, there's an art), using a laptop without a mouse like a right hander, whereas I'm left-handed, this is the best I can do with paint!
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 01:18   #18
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forgot to add, when will we see the next W B Diver and Dabchick progress report?
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 14:09   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickderry
I really like the composition sketch for these shanks, would have been proud to have done it myself, as for digipainting, to me it's a valid art form (as is photography btw - as long as there's a passion in it, there's an art), using a laptop without a mouse like a right hander, whereas I'm left-handed, this is the best I can do with paint!
I rather like the Middle-spotted Woodpecker- especially the back-lit crown. I remember seeing one years ago which raised its crown feathers with the early morning sun shining through them and they absolutely glowed- image as fresh in my mind as if was yesterday.

The WBD is being nudged along...
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 16:06   #20
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Love the digital work Ed. I work as a retoucher so I appreciate the amount of work that goes into these pieces. Don't you just hate it when people say 'Isn't it great what computers can do these days!' AAhrrgghhh!! Without an artist to use them they do nothing!
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Old Saturday 24th March 2007, 22:16   #21
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Ed - the comp. sketch is vital and very convincing. I can see the subtle differences in the digi pics and I do prefer the 2nd (although how it actually relates to NG I have absolutely no idea!) - keep us posted on the progress. Oh, and there are a few outstanding pieces required for your end of term crit. - namely, BTD in flight and 'rocking chair' Great Bustard - would be nice to see them soon. (By the way, exactly how many hours are there in a Keeble day? - you work full time, are an accomplished sculptor and digi-wizard and can bloody-well draw better than I hope ever to - er, I know there's no footie to interest you on TV as a Gunner, but it still leaves Mrs K and kiddie Ks somewhere in the mix - is time warping another of your talents?)
Nick's two efforts are both reassuringly fun (the 1st) and exhasperatingly beautiful (er, the 2nd). Excellent contribution to a stimulating thread.
Love your observation, Woody - I don't know how many times I've presented an illustration just for some d*ck to suggest I move the holly leaf a bit to the right - On a f*cking original!!!!! One very senior client actually started brandishing a black marker pen at 50 hours worth of watercolour illustration - thought it was as easy as pressing 'revert' on Photoshop! Ah computers, where would we be without them and all they can do . . . . .
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Old Sunday 25th March 2007, 02:30   #22
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Had a brief chance to revisit the WBD composition- here's a more aggressive version achieved by kicking the perspective and straightening the line where the weedy rocks meet the water- previously it was a bit cosy, as if the diver and grebes were swimming happily around a nice round village duckpond..
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Old Sunday 25th March 2007, 19:08   #23
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Ed - I've been thinking about this piece today (whilst enjoying a belated Mother's Day and Grandmother's Day lunch at a local hotel) and I wondered if you may get more of the 'Jaws' effect if you turn the scene around. (I'm reluctant to suggest things which you may alrady have considered and dismissed, so I hope this isn't inappropriate - ) - Reading and viewing your account, it seemed to me the dabs were somewhat startled! - I found the most frightening scene in the film was when the two wannabe shark catchers inadvertantly caught Jaws and it proceeded to pull the jetty into the water - the water-level cinematography was extremely scary. Have you considered a view from the dabchick's perspective (or from just behind them?) - the diver can then be almost frame-fillingly huge beyond the grebes, and swooshing towards them with menace. Just a thought.
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Old Sunday 25th March 2007, 23:50   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timwootton
Ed - I've been thinking about this piece today (whilst enjoying a belated Mother's Day and Grandmother's Day lunch at a local hotel) and I wondered if you may get more of the 'Jaws' effect if you turn the scene around. (I'm reluctant to suggest things which you may alrady have considered and dismissed, so I hope this isn't inappropriate - ) - Reading and viewing your account, it seemed to me the dabs were somewhat startled! - I found the most frightening scene in the film was when the two wannabe shark catchers inadvertantly caught Jaws and it proceeded to pull the jetty into the water - the water-level cinematography was extremely scary. Have you considered a view from the dabchick's perspective (or from just behind them?) - the diver can then be almost frame-fillingly huge beyond the grebes, and swooshing towards them with menace. Just a thought.
That is a thought and defimitely in order- I'm currently being a bit stubborn about painting it as seen. Here's a study for the conventional view but you should have warned me about these watercolours Tim- get em wet and they go everywhere! Whitebalance on camera also misbehaving..it reminds a bit of an illustration from Peter Rabbit with these hues..
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Old Monday 26th March 2007, 00:00   #25
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That's a very nice study! The head anatomy looks perfect and spot on for character.
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