[paulwfromtheden]

Visited my Mum's birdtable in Dorset today. I could not sat for definite which one, can anyone say which is more likely?

[Jane Turner]

In Dorset more likely to be Marsh..... I believe.

[rozinante]

Phew,
glad there is no picture.

[paulwfromtheden]

Originally Posted by rozinante

Phew,
glad there is no picture.

I was armed with my new camera, but as ever, the photo was taken where the tit was 3 seconds ago!

[joe cockram]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

In Dorset more likely to be Marsh..... I believe.

Yeh, Willow Tit is very difficult to get in Dorset nowadays, so Marsh would seem the likely answer.
Roughly whereabouts was this?

Joe

[paulwfromtheden]

Originally Posted by joe cockram

Yeh, Willow Tit is very difficult to get in Dorset nowadays, so Marsh would seem the likely answer.
Roughly whereabouts was this?

Joe

My mum's back garden in Morecomelake (about 2 miles west of Chideok), she also had a Yellowhammer as well.
I was pretty sure it was a Marsh tit, small bib, no obvious wing bar...

[bitterntwisted]

Originally Posted by paulwfromtheden

My mum's back garden in Morecomelake (about 2 miles west of Chideok), she also had a Yellowhammer as well.
I was pretty sure it was a Marsh tit, small bib, no obvious wing bar...

Bibs and wingbars are old school, Paul. Big fat head Willow, neat little capped chap Marsh. That's the new way. See Poecile's posts in numerous ID threads of the last few months.

[martin kitching]

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted

Bibs and wingbars are old school, Paul. Big fat head Willow, neat little capped chap Marsh. That's the new way. See Poecile's posts in numerous ID threads of the last few months.

I think a summary of Poecile's reliable Marsh/Willow separation features would be;

Willow; Clean white cheeks, all dark mandibles, dusky flanks.
Marsh; Cheeks duskier behind ear coverts, pale cutting edge, clean flanks.

Structure is very unreliable because it's so dependent on what the bird is doing, what angle it is to the observer etc.

I'm quite lucky in that I see Willow Tits daily; there are 2 regularly visiting the feeding station in my garden, 2 (sometimes 3) on the feeding station that I run in my local nature reserve (often competing with the Red Squirrels) and 1 or 2 that come and scold me whenever I walk past a certain stretch of hedge in the reserve. Other observers close to where I live are reporting a noticeable decrease in the number that they are recording though. I'm still waiting for my first Marsh on my local patch....

cheers
martin

[KnockerNorton]

Originally Posted by martin kitching

I think a summary of Poecile's reliable Marsh/Willow separation features would be;

Willow; Clean white cheeks, all dark mandibles, dusky flanks.
Marsh; Cheeks duskier behind ear coverts, pale cutting edge, clean flanks.

Structure is very unreliable because it's so dependent on what the bird is doing, what angle it is to the observer etc.

These threads get harder - there isn't even a picture with this one!

That's about the top and bottom of it, although I'd say the flanks are more buff than dusky on willow (willow underparts are more warmly coloured than marsh, so buff sounds warmer than dusky to me, but take your pick - they're more brown and less pale, that's the point). Marsh can have dirty flanks, as they do vary, but they're generally much more pale underparts.

[martin kitching]

Originally Posted by Poecile

That's about the top and bottom of it, although I'd say the flanks are more buff than dusky on willow (willow underparts are more warmly coloured than marsh, so buff sounds warmer than dusky to me, but take your pick - they're more brown and less pale, that's the point). Marsh can have dirty flanks, as they do vary, but they're generally much more pale underparts.

Hi Poecile

I meant 'buffy' but for some inexplicable reason wrote 'dusky'

Here's another Marsh/Willow thread;

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....illow+sakhalin

a few weeks old now but what do you think of the birds in that one?

cheers
martin

[aythya_hybrid]

Originally Posted by martin kitching

I'm quite lucky in that I see Willow Tits daily

I would say this makes you the luckiest man in the world!

You must have done something good in a previous life or something :)

[KnockerNorton]

Blimey, is this a conspiracy?! northern subspecies now?! That looks like a willow tit to me, but it's a different kettle of fish away from western europe. It's supposed to be easier, with the british races the hardest, but it's still tricky. I'd stick by willow though, not sure about the 3rd bird. Looks more marshy, but impossible to tell with that one. For me anyway.