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Old Tuesday 27th March 2007, 17:44   #1
Hockey.Lover
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Cooper's Hawk (?) in California, ID Help

I was thrilled a hawk on my fence this morning. The cats were eyeballing it from the window. Fortunately, my camera was right next to me. Two of the shots are very clear, but the one where it is taking off is blurry.

I've had a Sharpie in my yard before and it seemed so much smaller than this one. My guess is a Cooper's Hawk? Thanks.

Gail
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Last edited by Hockey.Lover : Tuesday 27th March 2007 at 17:59.
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Old Tuesday 27th March 2007, 18:46   #2
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Your guess is right - lovely Cooper´s Hawk with it´s paler neckside/nape than crown, best seen in image 2 where also seen that eye is set well forward.

Nice images!

JanJ
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Old Tuesday 27th March 2007, 18:51   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANJ
Your guess is right - lovely Cooper´s Hawk with it´s paler neckside/nape than crown, best seen in image 2 where also seen that eye is set well forward.

Nice images!

JanJ
Thank you, JanJ. So I got the paler neckside part. I couldn't tell by any of my photos that the tail was longer and rounder... The eye set well forward is another characteristic?

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Old Tuesday 27th March 2007, 23:58   #4
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Great shots of an adult Cooper's Hawk!
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:06   #5
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Thanks, Alex! Do you know if this is a male or female, by chance?
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:08   #6
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It's a male, Gail, and a cracking photo of a great bird too.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterntwisted
It's a male, Gail, and a cracking photo of a great bird too.
Thank you very much, bitterntwisted. How do you tell gender on these?
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:23   #8
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Originally Posted by Hockey.Lover
Thank you very much, bitterntwisted. How do you tell gender on these?
With rather more perspecuity than I showed, Gail. I was just double-checking as you posted. I erred horribly there, and shall retreat to threads on British birds in shame. Serves me right for brazenly crossing continents without my books!

Cooper's do not show the sexual dimorphism that their Eurasian counterparts do, and so it seems size is the only guide with females being up to 20" and males as small as 14". Presumably why Alex didn't make a call on the sex.

Sorry!

Graham

EDIT: If you can nip out and measure that fence, we might save my embarassment yet!

EDIT2: I'll delete my post if you delete yours then no-one need know, right?

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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:31   #9
Terry O'Nolley
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Photo 2 is fantastic! It shows the "fierce" look that is supposed to denote Cooper's rather than Sharpie. But it also shows a very clear, wide white terminal tail band that, combined with the size, points to Cooper's (I am not judging the size, but, rather, referring to your having noticed its larger size). I didn't know about the paler neck. I will remember that.

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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterntwisted
With rather more perspecuity than I showed, Gail. I was just double-checking as you posted. I erred horribly there, and shall retreat to threads on British birds in shame. Serves me right for brazenly crossing continents without my books!

Cooper's do not show the sexual dimorphism that their Eurasian counterparts do, and so it seems size is the only guide with females being up to 20" and males as small as 14". Presumably why Alex didn't make a call on the sex.

Sorry!

Graham

EDIT: If you can nip out and measure that fence, we might save my embarassment yet!

EDIT2: I'll delete my post if you delete yours then no-one need know, right?
LOL, Graham. That is too funny!!

To humor you, I went out and measured that top board on the fence. It is 3" high, sorry I don't know metric.... Does that help?

~G

Edited to say that my 'crude' calculations say the size is female.

Last edited by Hockey.Lover : Wednesday 28th March 2007 at 00:40.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:38   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
Photo 2 is fantastic! It shows the "fierce" look that is supposed to denote Cooper's rather than Sharpie. But it also shows a very clear, wide white terminal tail band that, combined with the size, points to Cooper's (I am not judging the size, but, rather, referring to your having noticed its larger size). I didn't know about the paler neck. I will remember that.
Thank you Terry!! That is my favorite, as well. Maybe Graham can figure out it's size??
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey.Lover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
(I am not judging the size, but, rather, referring to your having noticed its larger size)
Maybe Graham can figure out it's size??
I thought I had better add that disclaimer to my post LOL!!!
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:41   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
I thought I had better add that disclaimer to my post LOL!!!
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:42   #14
Terry O'Nolley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey.Lover
To humor you, I went out and measured that top board on the fence. It is 3" high, sorry I don't know metric
3 inches?!?!?!?!?

Dayummmm!!! That would make that bird the ancient Roc of legend! Better call your record's committee.

Last edited by Terry O'Nolley : Wednesday 28th March 2007 at 00:45.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
Photo 2 is fantastic! It shows the "fierce" look that is supposed to denote Cooper's rather than Sharpie. But it also shows a very clear, wide white terminal tail band that, combined with the size, points to Cooper's (I am not judging the size, but, rather, referring to your having noticed its larger size). I didn't know about the paler neck. I will remember that.
That "fierce-look" can be a dangerous feature - not diagnostic by any means. Somewhere JanJ, BLag, ChrisB, or someone else posted links of fierce-looking Sharpies and innocent-looking Coops - it's a needle in a haystack of Accipiter threads, though... I'll see if I can find it...
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:51   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overworkedirish
That "fierce-look" can be a dangerous feature - not diagnostic by any means. Somewhere JanJ, BLag, ChrisB, or someone else posted links of fierce-looking Sharpies and innocent-looking Coops - it's a needle in a haystack of Accipiter threads, though... I'll see if I can find it...
I agree. That is why I used the phrase "supposed to denote" and then "But it also shows....." to indicate the more definitive fieldmark.

Last edited by Terry O'Nolley : Wednesday 28th March 2007 at 00:55.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:54   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
I agree. That is why I used the phrase "supposed to denote" and then "But it also shows....." to indicate the more definitive fieldmark.


I know you know, Terry - just wanna make sure anyone lurking on the forum and trying to learn doesn't misunderstand.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 00:57   #18
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If that top beam is 3" deep, then the very rudimentary "Coopometer" (pat. pending) below makes the bird at least 33", and realistically at least 3'. If it's a female I wouldn't want to be Mr. Cooper's Hawk in that relationship. I know you've not gone metric, Gail, but are you sure your tape measure hasn't?

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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:01   #19
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I was assuming the beam was a 2 x 2.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:01   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterntwisted
If that top beam is 3" deep, then the very rudimentary "Coopometer" (pat. pending) below makes the bird at least 33", and realistically at least 3'. If it's a female I wouldn't want to be Mr. Cooper's Hawk in that relationship. I know you've not gone metric, Gail, but are you sure your tape measure hasn't?

Graham
A 3' Coop??? I think something got lost in communication/measurement... a Coop that big's like... impossible.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:02   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterntwisted
If that top beam is 3" deep, then the very rudimentary "Coopometer" (pat. pending) below makes the bird at least 33", and realistically at least 3'. If it's a female I wouldn't want to be Mr. Cooper's Hawk in that relationship. I know you've not gone metric, Gail, but are you sure your tape measure hasn't?

Graham
I am tempted to skip my hockey tonight in lieu of continuing this discussion on the "Coopometer". I can hardly type....LOL. Oy vey.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:03   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry O'Nolley
I was assuming the beam was a 2 x 2.
There are two pieces of wood (not sure of terminology) on top of the fence which are approx. 1.5 inches each.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterntwisted
If that top beam is 3" deep, then the very rudimentary "Coopometer" (pat. pending) below makes the bird at least 33", and realistically at least 3'. If it's a female I wouldn't want to be Mr. Cooper's Hawk in that relationship. I know you've not gone metric, Gail, but are you sure your tape measure hasn't?

Graham
I love the drop-shadow effect! It adds that extra little...... something!
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:04   #24
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If it's a female I wouldn't want to be Mr. Cooper's Hawk in that relationship.
Graham

I just don't even know what to say to this.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 01:06   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey.Lover
There are two pieces of wood (not sure of terminology) on top of the fence which are approx. 1.5 inches each.
What you have there is a BACH (Big-A*sed Cooper's Hawk). At the very least a female. Possibly an uber-female. Don't let your cats out and don't get her angry!!!!
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