[Gill Osborne]

Yesterday, Monday, I was at work and my boss said that he'd seen a Grey Squirrel dart across the road opposite the Victory pub in South Gosforth. I treble checked with him that it wasn't a ferret, grey cat etc but he insisted it was a grey squirrel! His 16 years old daugher was with him and she saw it as well! This was on Saturday at about 11.45am.
Are there greys in Jesmond Dene? I thought if anyone would know it would be you as you virtually know it inside out!!!
I've looked on a site that tells you what birds/mammals/flowers etc are about in a postcode area but it only reported the Red Squirrels

http://flood.nhm.ac.uk

If there are greys about and they get to Gosforth Park, will this be a disaster for the reds?

[Michael Frankis]

Bad news, that. There were two or three reports of a Grey Squirrel in Jes Dene a few years ago, fortunately it ended up under the wheels of a car. It was thought to be an illegally released animal. This is the first I've heard of since then, let's hope it is just one, and not going to breed. But sooner or later, they are going to arrive in force, and yes, I fear that will be the end of Reds in Gos Park.

Michael

[Elizabeth Bigg]

In the Lake District they have a scheme for monitoring any grey squirrels that come into the red squirrels' territory, with a facility for anyone to report the sighting of a grey squirrel. When this is received, apparently a trained marksman is sent out to attempt to "remove" it.

If you go to :http://www.oakhurstgardencentre.com/wildlife.htm and follow some of the leads, you will be able to find out more about it. Perhaps a similar scheme is needed in your area?

[IanF]

Not sure how pertinent this is but earlier this year I bumped into a lady at Thornley Woodland Centre who was undertaking a study of feeders on behalf of the Hancock Museum to find one that Red Squirrels could use but which defeated the Grey Squirrels. Perhaps you could do with some of them in Jesmond Dene ?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Ian,
That's been discussed, and may (if funding can be found) be implemented. The big problems will be (a) vandalism and (b) staff time to fill, clean, etc the feeders. At the moment, the latter isn't feasible.

Hi Elizabeth,
Similar policy in parts of Northumberland, including Gosforth Park. But unless everyone does it, it won't be successful. And it won't be feasible in suburban Newcastle.

Michael

[Gill Osborne]

Thanks Michael,
I thought I remembered some rumour about a grey in Jesmond Dene a few years ago but I wasn't sure. So when my boss mentioned it to me yesterday my first thought was to send an e-mail to the Natural History Society and/or the Northumberland Wildlife trust to report the sighting. But then I thought what if they already know...i'd look a right nugget reporting something in which was common knowledge! So then I thought of you since you know the Dene better than anyone else!
I'll ask my boss about it again tomorrow(i've had a day off today) just to make sure he really saw what he says he saw! He's not a birder or a naturalist as such but he does go walking in the countryside and watch wildlife programmes so he knows a grey when he sees one!
Didn't realise they had a marksman scheme going in the Lakes or parts of Northumberland....I can see that causing an uproar amongst the over-sentimental folk if we had to take out a grey in the Dene!!!!
I don't agree with unnecessary killing of things but we have to look after our Reds!

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Originally posted by Gill Osborne

I don't agree with unnecessary killing of things but we have to look after our Reds!

Up the Reds - and I am definitely NOT talking about football!!!

[Michael Frankis]

Originally posted by Gill Osborne
Didn't realise they had a marksman scheme going in the Lakes or parts of Northumberland....I can see that causing an uproar amongst the over-sentimental folk if we had to take out a grey in the Dene!!!!

Particularly the 2 or 3 nutters who bring in a sackful of grain each, every day, to feed the rats. They are utterly impervious to the damage they're doing to the wildlife in the Dene (I've tried!)

Michael

[Gill Osborne]

I wondered why the rat population was so high in the Dene! Now I know!! I used to live in Longbenton six years ago and as I only worked part-time was in the Dene about four or five times a week and I often used to see the rats occasionally. I will admit that I do like rats but my boss, who lives just round the corner from South Gosforth Metro Station, says the Dene is over-run with them. I thought he was just exaggerating and getting on his 'high-horse'...I know NOT to mention rats,cats,magpies,crows etc etc in front of him as it starts him off ranting and raving!!!
So, is it real bad now with the rats? Are they affecting the birds in any way? If so, then we do need to do something!
I remember about nine years ago watching FOUR water voles swimming around and feeding on the bank...just where the two bridges are together(the low one and the higher one...I think I once read that the higher one was for the upper-class and gentry and the lower was for the peasants and lower class!).
Haven't seen any in the Dene for years now....could the rats be having any impact on them or are the river banks clogging up with Himalayan Balsam and not giving the voles the habitat they need?
Since moving to first Whitley Bay and now North Shields I hardly ever get to the Dene.....but I finish early tomorrow...think I'll nip along and see what's about and check out my husband's precious Moorhens!!!

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Gill,

"I wondered why the rat population was so high in the Dene!"

I'd estimate there's around 10 kg of grain dumped in the Dene EVERY DAY by these 3-4 people - enough to support 400 rats. And that's on top of all the bread mothers & kids 'feeding the ducks' (a lot of which also goes to rats)

"So, is it real bad now with the rats? Are they affecting the birds in any way? If so, then we do need to do something!"

Yes - Kingfishers failed to breed the last couple of years in the Dene, they're a lot less easy to see now. Also fewer Mallards & Moorhens (rats raid their nests, take the eggs, kill the young chicks)

"I remember about nine years ago watching FOUR water voles swimming around and feeding on the bank...just where the two bridges are together(the low one and the higher one...I think I once read that the higher one was for the upper-class and gentry and the lower was for the peasants and lower class!)."

Correct!

"Haven't seen any in the Dene for years now....could the rats be having any impact on them"

Yes. I'm pretty sure it is rats that have caused the demise of the Dene's Water Vole population

"or are the river banks clogging up with Himalayan Balsam and not giving the voles the habitat they need?"

Water Voles can eat Himalayan Balsam. I don't think that species is a problem for voles (it is for some other waterside flora, though)

11 Moorhens on my WeBS count through the Dene on Sat (used to be around 15-20+, 3-4 years ago)

Michael

[Gill Osborne]

Oh dear! Looks like SOMETHING needs to be done! I get SO annoyed at these people who come along with their kids and loads of bread...always feel as though it's not the correct diet for the birds, especially the young ones. Neil and I only ever give birds grain...when we lived in Whitley Bay we were just up the road from Marden Quarry and in the winter months would go along to feed the ducks,coots,moorhens and geese and they LOVED the grain...we often saw parents come along with bread and the birds did seem to often turn their noses(beaks?) up at it! Perhaps they just get sick of the same rubbish being fed to them each day!!! I know too much bread always seems to make me feel bloated and bunged up!!!
Perhaps if folk giving bread to the birds in the Dene were told that most of it would go to feed the rats these people would be horrified and stop?You know how we have this irrational hatred of rats...live and let live I say...but not when things get out of hand and other species are put at risk or being wiped out!!!
10kg of grain EACH DAY is a disgrace!!!!! God, I despair of some people!!! Where are their brains???? A bit of lead between the eyes is too good for them....cos trying to educate them just does not seem to work!!!!.......ok, that's my little rant over!!!
Thanks for the info Michael...knew you'd come up with the facts!

[cuddy]

Hi Gill, please do report your sightings of the Grey Squirrel too the Trust and The Hancock , they will not mind any duplication of info.

Marden Quarry is going through a major face lift, helped along by the lady who was instumental in the creation of St Mary's Wetland. Whatch out for the retuning Smew.

Rats and Watervoles occupy similar territories, not sure rats are to blame for their decline.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Cuddy,

Brown Rats deliberately exclude Water Voles from their territories

Michael

[Gill Osborne]

Checked with my boss today that he was 300% sure that it WAS a grey he saw and, sadly, yes it was! I'll post off an e-mail to the Hancock and the Trust tonight.
Used to go to Marden Quarry quite regular when I lived just round the corner...but I never managed to see that blasted Smew!!!!! I would read reports on Bird Links that it had been seen, go down at first light the next morning.....and not see it!!! Then, to rub salt into the wounds even further, I would read later on in Bird Links that it had been present in the Quarry that day.....where does it hide????
I've seen loads of females, which are very attractive in themselves, but never a male........well, i did a few years ago at Washington Wildfowl ....but that doesn't count!!!!

[sparrowbirder]

Ive been seeing the odd grey squirrel around my area too,in a stronghold of Red squirrel, quite a worry that!! I read an article a while ago about reporting sightings of grey squirrels in newly colonised areas but cant remember were it was or who was doing it!! In my eyes they should be classed as vermin ,nothing more!!

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Sparrowbirder - perhaps your local Wildlife Trust could give you some information.

[Gill Osborne]

Sent in my report to both the Northumberland Wildlife Trust and Natural History Society on Wednesday night... got an e-mail back from Louise Bessant, Red Squirrel Conservation Officer with the Northumberland Wildlife Trust today. Thanked me for my record, which has been added to their database.
Apparently a sighting of a Grey had already been reported from Jesmond Dene so the one my boss saw last Saturday could have come from there. Louise has got in touch with the Natural History Society and asked if they will consider taking a trap for the Grey to the Dene. Apparently this sighting does not necessarily mean the end for the Reds in Gosforth Park...but if the Grey is carrying the parapox virus then that will be a matter of concern!
Fingers crossed it's a one-off sighting!!!

[StevieEvans]

Used to see Reds every day near Durham City, haven't seen any for nearly a year now.

The first Grey appeared in those same woods in August 1996. (Only took 6 years to clear out their native cousins, from prime habitat)

NB. GREY SQUIRRELS TASTE QUITE GOOD ! Perhaps this factor can be brought into the "Save the Reds Plan"

S

[cuddy]

Good stuff Gill glad you got feedback on your report
.