[BobinKy]

Like many before me, I love the views through the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 820EDs. However, the negative aspects of the eye cups and diopter have bothered me since I purchased the pair.

At last, I think I have figured how to live with the eye cups. Yes, the twist up eye cups do move on me. Locking positions would have been better. Now what I do is continually adjust the twist up distance as I look through them, first one eye, then the other. It really is not so bad, since I find I want different twist up differences depending upon which angle I am holding the binoculars--as well as whether the binoculars rest upon the bones of my brow or the eye sockets of my face.

So there you have it. I have learned to live with one of the negatives of these amazing binoculars.

As for the diopter that moves--it must be the binocular elf playing tricks on me. I have found the way to live with it is to memorize my diopter setting and check it frequently. A little pain, but doable.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by BobinKy

Like many before me, I love the views through the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 820EDs. However, the negative aspects of the eye cups and diopter have bothered me since I purchased the pair.

At last, I think I have figured how to live with the eye cups. Yes, the twist up eye cups do move on me. Locking positions would have been better. Now what I do is continually adjust the twist up distance as I look through them, first one eye, then the other. It really is not so bad, since I find I want different twist up differences depending upon which angle I am holding the binoculars--as well as whether the binoculars rest upon the bones of my brow or the eye sockets of my face.

So there you have it. I have learned to live with one of the negatives of these amazing binoculars.

As for the diopter that moves--it must be the binocular elf playing tricks on me. I have found the way to live with it is to memorize my diopter setting and check it frequently. A little pain, but doable.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

May I ask if you bought these through a US dealer and how long ago? Were they new and under warranty? My 2006 catalog says the eyecups lock in the up position, and, in fact, Swift got a patent, which names Mr. Nicolas Crista, their chief opticalman, as the inventor. The diopter control may need to be tightened up.

Ed

[BobinKy]

Originally Posted by elkcub

May I ask if you bought these through a US dealer and how long ago? Were they new and under warranty? My 2006 catalog says the eyecups lock in the up position, and, in fact, Swift got a patent, which names Mr. Nicolas Crista, their chief opticalman, as the inventor. The diopter control may need to be tightened up.

Ed

elkcub:

Thank you for your comments.

I purchased my Audubon EDs four months ago from a U.S. dealer as new and under warranty.

Yes, if I twist the eye cups all the way up--they do lock in the full twist up position. My problem is, the full twist up is not my preferred position. Normally, I find I prefer to view with the eye cups twisted up only halfway. The eye cups only "lock" in the full twist up position and in the twist down position. In between these two positions, they do not lock in any way and tend to move as I repeatedly place them against my face.

I do not understand why Swift allowed such a great pair of binoculars to get out the research door with the current twist up eye cups that fail to lock in the intermediary positions. Most other manufacturers have twist ups with four or five lockable positions.

Thank you for telling me Mr. Crista, Swift's chief optical man, designed the twist up eye cups. Some day I would like to sit down and discuss the eye cup design with him, face-to-face, eye-to-eye.

I am the guilty elf on the diopter. At times, I find myself grabbing the eye cups as I pull them out of the snug-fitting case (another negative I have learned to live with--but let's not go there!). Sometimes when I do grab the eye cup with the diopter, the diopter does move, millimeter by millimeter, with each removal from the case. Tightening up the diopter may help. However, as of yet, that problem is not worth sending them off.

. . .

Other than the above negatives, I truly love my Swift Audubon 820EDs.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[elkcub]

Bob,

Actually, Mr. Crista's patent allows for intermediate locking positions, but Swift didn't implement it that way on the 820ED for some reason. I could find and send you the US patent info, but then you'll only get more frustrated knowing that they could have been made to meet your needs.

What you're attempting to do is truly heroic, but it's a slippery slope.

Blue skies,
Ed

[BobinKy]

Ed:

No thank you on the patent information. As I stated in my original post to this thread, I have learned to live with the negatives. Be Positive, I keep telling myself.

. . .

Last night I took the Audubon EDs to a local nature preserve. I observed a herd of 22 deer and one red fox. The time was twilight. I was amazed at the bright views through the Audubon EDs. The red fox was sitting in a little valley, preening himself. The red fur on his head and back was so clear I felt I could reach out and pet him. There were 10 fawns in the deer herd, all with spots--like little Bambi's. And the three bucks had soft brown velvet on their antlers. Beautiful--and all due to the Audubon Eds. [Sorry, Mr. Crista, for my ill-spoken words!]

. . .

Ed, perhaps you have an opinion on a quest of mine. While I love to do serious birding and nature observing with the Audubon EDs, I want to find another pair of binoculars that give similar views--however in a smaller size. Something I can carry with me when the bulk of the Audubon EDs would be too much.

My quest has a slogan--To walk around with quality glass in my pocket.

I have done some research and plan to field test the following models, along with the Audubon EDs, in a couple of weeks:

Pockets (<4.0 inches height)

• Leica 8x20mm BCR Ultravid
• Nikon 8x20mm Premier LX L

Big Pockets (4.0-5.5 inches height)

• Minox HG 8x33 BR
• Pentax 8x32mm DCF ED

Q1: Do you have any opinions on any of the above pocket/big pocket models?

Q2: Except for the wide FOV, are there different compacts or mid-size roofs, other than the ones above, you think give optical views comparable to the Swift Audubon EDs?

Q3: What do you think should be the major issues in the field test?

Q3: After all is said and done, will I find a compact or mid-size roof capable of giving views similar to the Audubon Eds?

Thanks,
Bob

[Pinewood]

Bob,

I had a similar problem with the dioptre setting moving, on an older, 1997, Swift 8,5x44. I took a heavy rubber band, doubled it up by making it into a figure eight, then put on the base of dioptre knob, where there is a groove. It has been in place, ever since.


Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[elkcub]

Bob,

Models 804 and 820 Swift Audubons provide a characteristic "easy view." This seems to be due to a combinations of factors, but most people recognize it when they see it.

Although easy to carry, pocket binoculars are not anywhere near as easy a view, and will always seem that way IMO.

In the big pocket class, I recently purchased an 8x32 Nikon LX L with roughly the same purpose in mind, — and I'm extremely pleased. I liken them to the easy view of my 804ED for reasons I can't quite articulate. So, I'd suggest you might add that to your list. (Nonetheless, side by side comparison of the Nikon LX L with the 804ED Swift Audubon still puts them at a lower performance level, as I think would be the case with any 8x32 roof.)

That said, I know little about the Minox or Pentax. If price were not a consideration, 8x32 Ultravids and FLs are also worthy contenders. (You'll also have a lot of room in your pockets after buying one. )

Field testing to me means viewing real birds (or other living wildlife) : (1) perched or on the fly, (2) in woodland and shoreline, and (3) at dawn, mid-day, and dusk. Personally, I prefer to dedicate time to each binocular separately, because it takes time to adapt to each design. As you can see, I'm a gestaltist by nature.

Oh, yes, be sure the focus wheel turns in the same direction as the Audubon's or it might challenge even your excellent adaptive abilities beyond their limits.

Blue skies,
Ed
PS. The LX L diopter setting snaps into place, and the four-position eyecups are excellent. No need for rubber bands or slippery slopes. Hi, Arthur

[BobinKy]

Ed:

Thank you for your knowledgeable answers and wise advice to my previous post.

In my head, I keep going back and forth between the go anywhere perspective (pocket 8x20) and what you call the easy view perspective (big pocket 8x32 & hand carry Audubon ED 8.5x44). Therefore, I am borrowing a couple of quality binoculars from each perspective for a field test in another week or two. I am also borrowing a Leupold Katmai 6x32 Roof Prism for the field test, as another solution for go anywhere binoculars.

Pocket enthusiasts tell me the easy carry feature is very nice and not to be dismissed until I try one of the two premium models (Ultravid or Premier). At the same time, these enthusiasts admit the superior views of the big pocket models. However, they emphasize the go anywhere feature is paramount in their lives, as long as they have a larger binocular of premium quality for serious birding and nature observing.

So far in my brief binocular observing hobby, I have not tired of the Audubon EDs in the field (except for the eye cup and diopter issues described in previous posts). At this time I am not looking to replace the Audubon EDs as a serious pair.

Regarding the premium models in the big pocket size--yes, someday I would like to test the Zeiss T* P* Victory FL in either the 8x32 or 7x42 sizes, as well as the Nikon 8x32 Premier LX L. If the first field test demonstrates the pocket will not satisfy my quest for go anywhere binoculars, then later I may do a second field test of big pockets, extending that test to the premium models you suggested.

I do not know if any of this makes much sense. I also own a pair of Nixon Travlite V 8x25s that I currently use as my go anywhere binoculars. This whole quest started as a simple desire to upgrade the Travelite, which has served me well for eight years, to something resembling the quality I am experiencing with the Audubon EDs.

Thus my dilemma and reason to borrow various models for a field test.

Ed, thank you again for your assistance. I am finding all of the folks here at the bird forum are very helpful.

--Bob

[BobinKy]

After many months of use, I am here to report that I actually like the eye cup on the Swift Audubon 820 ED. It is certainly different than rubber roll-back eyecups or 4-position style of twist-up eye cups. However, the locking position (all the way up) is great for scanning and creates little eye strain when used for long periods of time. And the Swift Audubon now sits proudly in my optical case next to some other great porros, such as Fujinon FMT-SX and Nikon SE.

Yesterday I had the Swift Audubon and the Nikon SE 8x32 out for some landscape viewing. While the Nikon SE gave me clear, sharp, neutral views that were superior (!) to the Swift Audubon, I found the Audubon gave me less eye strain during scanning activity.

I love porros.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[Tero]

The eye strain most people refer to has to do with the eye doing a lot of work to focus, and sometimes counteract bad alignment. We refer to discomfort of the eye cups etc by other terms.

Real eye strain gives you headaches.

[BobinKy]

We refer to discomfort of the eye cups etc by other terms.

Interesting, what are the terms?

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[ronh]

Bob,
The eyepieces on my Leica Trinovid slide up and lock in the full up position, and that is "it". That setting is fine for me most of the time. It is plenty high to avoid the tendency to blackouts while panning, which can be annoying when birdwatching, especially in bright light conditions.

But, as it starts to get a little dark, the tendency to blackouts diminishes, because of the change in the eye's pupil I suppose, and I notice then that the edges of the field, while visible, appear darkened somewhat. Then, and also for astronomy, I wish I had an in between setting.

So, I fixed it. I found a plastic bottle whose inner diameter was a bit smaller than the outer diameter of the sliding part of the eyepieces. I cut rings out of the bottle and slit them, so they fit onto the eyepieces snugly. It took a bit of hand work to get them exactly the right width, and nicely smoothed off, but it was a fun little project. Now with the rings on, in low light I just lower the eyepieces and the rings stop them at the desired height. Not only does this give a well-illuminated field, but also puts my eye in a place where it is less sensitive to light intrusion from outside the field. I really like this setting when trying to see into shadows at the end of the day, with a bright sunset sky nearby.

In the rare case when I want to wear sunglasses, I remove the rings to lower the eyecups all the way, and try not to lose the ring thingies. I've still got my bottle, just in case!
Ron

[Tero]

Originally Posted by BobinKy

Interesting, what are the terms?
--Bob
Kentucky, USA

Well, we have no real terms. Just "bad ergonomics" and discomfort.

[elkcub]

There is an interesting story behind the eyecups. Hiyoshi's original design of the 820 (about 1999) ran into a serious production problem with the retractable eyecups they designed. Serious enough to threaten a shut down. At that point, Nicolas Crista, who was the head repairman for Swift, and educated in the trade school system in Germany, came to the rescue. His combination of engineering talent and fabrication skills saved the day with a retrofit. His invention was subsequently awarded a US patent. If you have a very early model, in fact, you may have one that was hand made by the master himself.

Ed

[BobinKy]

Ron--

Thank you for posting your bottle ring adaptation to the sliding eyecups on your Leica Trinovid. Very clever! I guess--if you felt the need--you could cut several pairs of plastic rings, each pair with a different width to simulate the 4-stop locking positions of other twist-up eyecups.

Which brings me to a question for Ed (Elkcub), which I will ask in my reply to his recent post.

. . .

I have to confess that when I returned from my outing with the Nikon SE 8x32 and Swift Audubon, I immediately ordered the Nikon SE 12x50, which arrived yesterday and gave me a pleasant armchair view of a snowcapped slope 1,000 yards distant from my living room window.

I must say, for daytime use (in dry weather), the Nikon SEs are challenging the Fujinon FMT-SXs for the front row in my optical case. Next spring I hope to do some side-by-side comparisons of my best porros: Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50, 16x70; Nikon SE 8x32, 12x50; and Swift Audubon 820 ED 8.5x44.

. . .

Ron, thank you for sharing your ring concept. It is good to hear from you again.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[BobinKy]

Ed--

Thank you for sharing the Audubon 820 eyecup story and the important rescue by Nicolas Crista.

I googled Nicolas Crista and discovered this link to NRC Optics, his optical repair company: http://www.nrcoptics.com/ .

• Do you think he could retrofit the Audubon 820 eyecups with locking positions for individual users?

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[Fernando np]

Bob,
You must the first person in this forum who's interested in the night performance, bellow the skies, of binoculars. Can you rate yours under this feature?. I've never seen a pair of FMTs and my experience with the 820 was in the noED side. An outstanding night watcher is also the old Zeiss Jena 7X40 DF. I might have buy them in the right time.

[BobinKy]

Fernando--

I like to use binoculars for both daytime nature and night astronomy. My favorite binoculars for observing the night sky are Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 and 16x70. For day use I prefer the Swift Audubon 820 8.5x44 and the Nikon SE 8x32 and 12x50. The Audubon is also good for night astronomy.

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by BobinKy

Ed--

Thank you for sharing the Audubon 820 eyecup story and the important rescue by Nicolas Crista.

I googled Nicolas Crista and discovered this link to NRC Optics, his optical repair company: http://www.nrcoptics.com/ .

• Do you think he could retrofit the Audubon 820 eyecups with locking positions for individual users?

--Bob
Kentucky, USA

Bob,

Nicolas would know if the design would allow such modification, or be worth the time and effort. No harm in giving him a call though. It's possible.

Ed

[BobinKy]

For all of my earlier complaining, I must say that I have gotten to like sweeping the landscape with the Swift Audubon 820 ED. In fact, if sweeping is my game, I will leave the Nikon SE 8x32 on the shelf and go with the Swift Audubon. Never any blackouts with the Swift Audubon.

. . .

However, when the sweeping is done, I want the Nikon SE in my hands.