[Askar Isabekov]

Please help id these birds.

[lostinjapan]

Well here go my guesses without reference to field guides

1 and 2 - Cinerous Bunting

3 Common Whitethroat

4 Phyllosc - most likely a Chiffchaff

5 Common Rosefinch - immature

Sean

Hiroshima

[Askar Isabekov]

thanks Sean

[gerdwichers8]

It's a harder job to find out the first two birds Askar, but the third I agree with Sean, the fourth is a Hippolais, a Sykes's Warbler; the fifth is indeed what Sean sees in it.

[Askar Isabekov]

Thanks. May be 1-2 is Red-headed Bunting, because Cinerous Bunting is not occur in Kazakhstan. 4. Are you sure? Syke's or Booted?

[StuartReeves]

I thought Red-headed or Black-headed bunting for the first two.

[Joern Lehmhus]

Originally Posted by StuartReeves

I thought Red-headed or Black-headed bunting for the first two.

me too, and I agree with Gerd that 4 seems to be a Hippolais (I have not enough experience to id species here)

[Askar Isabekov]

Thanks Stuart

[gerdwichers8]

The first two bird show a very heavy bill and it is pinkish with only some black at the tip of the upper mandible. Other features involve a more or less randomly streaked back, white edges to the tops of the median and greater coverts. And so on.
Red headed bunting shows different plumagefeatures (but a juvenile may be okay with it) and the bill is not equal with this; either in colouration and shape: particularly the straight edge to the upper mandible is lacking. This bill is bulbous
I have been considering your Reedbunting pyrrhuloides as well, but that bird has a dark bill
Edit:
Here is a link for Red-headed: some bills give some bulbous impression, whilst others are straight. None of them shows a pink bill.
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/se...ID=&pagesize=1

[rob stoff]

1 and 2 look fine for Red-headed Bunting to me, 4 is probably a Booted Warbler but the angle doesn't help.

Rob

[JANJ]

Hi all.

Some Red-headed Buntings here:

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindho...kut/embbru.htm

I think the culmen is alright would expect a slight variation.

Nr 4 is not a Chiffchaff for various reasons - such as p-projection and structure - have to give that one a thought or two.

JanJ

[gerdwichers8]

We get some pinkish flush in some pics of Jan's link; I am okay with it.

[Harry Hussey]

No.4 looks better for Booted rather than Sykes's to me, based on a seemingly longer primary projection than on the latter, a supercilium that extends beyond the eye, and, as a supporting character, the fact that it is flitting around in low scrub (rose bushes), though I appreciate that this last point is not diagnostic.
What race of Common Whitethroat is out there? While I now agree that No.3 looks most like this species, it almost gave off a Booted Warbler vibe as well on initial inspection, due to seeming quite pale above.

[Askar Isabekov]

Sylvia communis rubicola

[gerdwichers8]

The drama warbler shows an undeniable long primary projection. The supercilium is not so long and the length of the body is a bit longish.

[Frenchy]

I think that the bunting is best identified by location rather than appearance. The mantle streaking and apparant lack of crown streaking would point to red-headed, but the photos are not good enough in my opinion to rule out black-headed. However, don't think that Black-headed's get near to Kazakhstan, so you're pretty safe!

[Xenospiza]

I'd support Booted Warbler: bill looks not that heavy, dark-tipped; bird is washed-out brownish.

[JANJ]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I think that the bunting is best identified by location rather than appearance. The mantle streaking and apparant lack of crown streaking would point to red-headed, but the photos are not good enough in my opinion to rule out black-headed. However, don't think that Black-headed's get near to Kazakhstan, so you're pretty safe!

That about sums it up.

JanJ

[hannu]

The bunting match well to juvenile Red-headed.

[Askar Isabekov]

thanks all

[MKinHK]

I'm not so sure that Black-headed Bunting can be dismissed.

It occurs almost annually in Hong Kong and has been recorded in China from Tibet to Fujian, in Japan, Korea and Thailand and is on the Tajikstan list.

While I agree that Red-headed Bunting is by far the commoner of the two in Kazakhstan, it seems at least possible that a bird with such an odd migration and documented ability to turn up way beyond its known wintering and breeding ranges cannot be dismissed.

I wouldn't bother to make this point if it weren't for the fact that I think it may be Black-headed. In the first pic the dark "hood" extends below the ear coverts in a pattern which is reminiscent of male Black-headed in breeding plumage - a feature we use in HK. The illustration 6c on page 343 of Grimskipp's "Birds of the Indian Subcontinent" is the best illustration of this.

We also expected Red-headed rather than Black-headed, based on range and proximity to breeding grounds when the first Red/Black-headed Buntings were found almost 20 years ago.

As a result I am going to stick my neck out and suggest this is a mature female Black-headed Bunting.


I have another rule of thumb to suggest for Booted/Sykes' Warblers. If it looks like a phyllosc its Booted and if it looks like an accro its a Sykes'. This looks to me like a Booted - the head is too rounded and there is an angle between the head and the bill. the Sykes' that I've seen in neighbouring Xinjiang were much more flat-headed.

Very interested to hear further views

Cheers
Mike

[hannu]

As to Bunting,

Firstly, I would like to speak up the age of the bunting. E.g. both wide pale edges of tertials and the weak pale tips of primaries suggests that the bird is juvenile. See the below link, where is adult female and juvenile Red-headed.

The hood is not so clear in the 2nd pic and perhaps the bird should have whole ear coverts darker, if it would be Black-headed ? It's well visible that ear coverts are not darker than e.g. neck. Compare the hood on this case to the right Red-headed in the follow link:
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/linto/EmbbruKI6W4070.jpg

The bunting has rather strong longitudinal black streaks in the mantle, which match better for Red-headed.

Finally, these juvenile birds is perhaps better to leave identify, because the age class is difficult for identification in many cases and the quality of the photos is not enough good for identification between these difficult pair of species.

Pic 4 (062) looks Booted to my eye, but pic 3 (059) is a big question mark!

[lostinjapan]

Aah..you see I knew i should have paid closer attention!

Well 1 out of 5 isn't bad.

I had a longer more detailed look and I don't know why I ever thought 1 and 2 were Cinerous Bunting. Now I have had a proper look, I would say Red-headed rather than Black-headed.

I really thought I was on the money with Whitethroat for 3, as the tertials seemed so rufous with dark centers and it seemed to have a rounded head, a lot of white in front of the eye...but I will bow to greater knowledge.

Finally for 4..OK Chiffchaff was way off..so perhaps Olivaceous would be a better fit?

Sean

Hiroshima

[hannu]

Originally Posted by lostinjapan

Finally for 4..OK Chiffchaff was way off..so perhaps Olivaceous would be a better fit?

Look at the bill !

[MKinHK]

Thanks for your comments and the very useful photo Hannu - have to agree it s a juvenile bird and am in total agreement that this is a very difficult pair in juv. plumage. I see what you mean about the hood in the your linked photo, but would still lean towards Black-headed, even if a certain ID is not possible.

What about a rather plain juv Barred Warbler for pic 3 - it just looks big, and big billed, and the eye is huge. I even considered Nightingale at first glance, but it clearly is not that.

Cheers
Mike