[pmydon]

Hi all,

I am new to mothing. Taking advice from this forum I have bought the book (Waring, Townsend and Lewington) and my brand new moth trap arrived yesterday (Gladiator 22 watt actinic).

Great excitement as I set up the trap last night. Even greater excitement as I got up at the unearthly hour (well for me) of 6am, and went around to the garden armed with pencil, ruler, notebook, macro camera and identification book. I was expecting to spend the day happily being mystified by the identification problems presented by my first catch of my new hobby.

Not a sausage, or even a micro moth. A few very small flies which I needed a magnifying glass to see, apart from them zero.

The weather last night in Cumbria was a little breezy, although I set the moth trap up in a sheltered part of the garden. Rain had moved in over night and the wind has increased.

My questions are “Is this a little late in the year to catch moths in Cumbria? Was I being unduly optimistic in expecting a catch in less than ideal weather? Is position of moth trap critical? Is a zero catch not usual at this time of year? Should I pack up and just go back to bird watching?”

All advice gratefully received.

Yours, ever so slightly depressed and a little bored having been up for hours on a Sunday morning when I should be in bed listening to the Archers omnibus.

[SveinB]

Hi, it is really not easy to tell why Your first attempt with Your brand new moth trap didnt give any catch at all, but my limited experience with moth trapping has showed me that the result is depending on many factors. Weather conditions, light pollution from the moon or other light sources, how the trap is placed etc. Some nights have given nothing here too, and then again a few nights later there is plenty inside the trap to study. There is one thing You dont mention in Your post, did You put any empty egg boxes in Your trap for the moths to find hide and shelter? I guess that is one important thing to do to keep the moths inside the trap after they have gotten inside.

Here it is not the best conditions for mothing- the temperature was creeping down towards zero tonight, but the weather was quite good. The last days heavy wind had calmed down, and my only worries for setting up the trap was a bit low temperature, and a too bright sky. Today i woke up to 5 cm with fresh snow outside.....one single Brindled ochre in the trap.

Good luck with further attempts, I am sure there will be plenty to study in the trap when the right night is there.

Svein B

[pmydon]

Morning Svein,

and I was worried about temperature dropping slightly below 10 C here in Cumbria. You have snow and you are still trapping.This is heartening. I will settle for one moth trapped at the moment, but it will take me a least two days to identfy it.

Regards

PS. Yes, I did have broken eggboxes in the trap.

[Steve]

Did you switch the lamp on?

[pmydon]

That's where I am going wrong........................

[Surreybirder]

A 22W actinic is never going to get the sort of catches you get with a 125W robinson trap. Catching moths is not an exact science. Wind, moonlight, street lights, cold, heavy rain, can all depress catches. Sometimes a warm day will encourage more activity that evening (presumably as more adults emerge from their cocoons) but a series of warm days may decrease this effect. Persistence is the main thing. Try and put the trap in a sheltered spot but not where the light can only be seen from a few yards away. Good luck.

Ken

[Oenanthe]

Try putting your Actinic trap next to a greenhouse or patio doors if you have them,I've always had better results in doing this.

If you haven't got these then next to a fence/wall can be productive, I've caught more with these methods than putting the trap out in the open ie middle of the lawn.

Damian

[pmydon]

Many thanks everyone for encouragement and practical tips (including turning the light on).

It was wet amd windy all day yesterday in Cumbria, but cleared up in the evening, so out came the trap again on a still, clear night. This time I set it up in front of patio doors, about 10 metres from the previous blank night.

Great pleasure in trapping TWO moths last night. Now this might not sound great to you guys, but I am ecstatic. Now the hard part in identification. Now I knew this would be difficult, but do all moths have to look the same. I thumbed my Waring anbd Townsend to tatters trying to pin down (not literally you understand) my two prize specimens. Once I think I have an answer, the next paragraph in the moth bible tells me that the underwings are the wrong colour, so it just doesn't occur "up north", or something just does not fit.

In despair, I am appealing to you to help with identification (I know that there is an identification section to the forum, but I am embarrassed to go there yet with two, I assume, very common gardem moths). I thought I would appeal to your benevolent nature first.

I think the first moth is a garden dart. It was about 16mm, but did not fold its forewings with an obvious overlap "like what the book says".

I have no idea what moth no 2 is. Originally I thought it was a North Rustic, but this is rules out because it has whitish underwings. It is slightly bigger than Moth No 1, about 18mm, but again does not fold its wings with an obvious overlap. It also seems to have a lack of antenae.

Suggestions please. Many thanks.

PS Forgive the crap pics. They are taken with a compact digital. I want to get to grips with this new hobby before I spend real money on a decent camera.

[Surreybirder]

Well, done! You are now on the road.
The second is, I think, a rosy rustic (I know, it's not rosy but colour isn't everything).
Not too sure about the first.
Ken

[pmydon]

Thanks, Ken. Rosy Rustic seems a perfect fit. I completely overlooked it on my search. I attach another pic which I think is closer to the illustration in Waring and Townsend. I also attach several views of my suspected Garden Dart for any expert comment (on the identification, not the crap photos....). Doesn't the colour on pics alter a lot depending on light, background etc.

Regards,
Derek

[Surreybirder]

Not sure, but it is beginning to look like a flounced rustic to me.
Ken

[pmydon]

Certainly the habitat (my garden is adjacent to farm land) and time of year is correct for Flounced Rustic, and the description also fits, although I was not immediately drawn to match it up with the illustration in Waring and Townsend. However, having looked at it again, seems a good match for illustration on left hand side in Waring and Townsend (there are 4 to choose from.).

Ken, you are a star. Hope you are awaiting the next batch of identification issues tomorrow (or am I being over optimistic given my ziltch catch of yesterday)

Thanks again and regards
Derek

[Brian Stone]

IMO Ken has named them correctly, sorry I couldn't post earlier. You have our sympathies for the steep learning curve you find yourself at the bottom of. If it's any consolation it does ease dramatically with time. The process is eased by paying close attention to what what others are catching and taking the time at this early stage to become really familiar with the regulars in your trap.

Don't pay too much attention to habitat when dealing with adult moths. Although some are reluctant to travel far most can be found well away from their breeding habitat. Flounced Rustic is quite distinctive when you get to know it; although the forewing marking can resemble some forms of the Common Rustic spp. it has a distinctive shape and strikingly white hindwings.

Rosy Rustic is easier and a familiar autumn vistor.

On positioning the trap, I'm with Damian on this. Actinics can often do well in more sheltered positions, especially early and late in the season. It's not unusual to get good results from one in fairly deep cover where micro-climate effects can keep things warmer and more humid on cooler autumn or spring nights.

Don't get too despondent with small catches from now on, especially when you see some people reporting large numbers. It's the time of year when exact location makes a huge difference. Even my garden MV is only trapping a handful at the moment and mine is a fairly productive garden at times. Press on into the autumn. You'll be glad of the small numbers as when things pick up next summer you will be in a much better position to cope with the onslaught. I started at this time of year and I think it's ideal for easing you in gradually.

[Surreybirder]

http://www.somersetmothgroup.org.uk/...e+wing+tonight
can be quite a useful indication. The most commonly observed species comes first.
Ken

[pmydon]

Thanks guys,

Presumably there is a big difference in the varieties on the wing between the soft south (i.e. Somerset) and us tough Northerners (i.e. Cumbria)?

Derek

[Oenanthe]

Hi Derek,

Told you the patio doors would do the trick !!

I was down to 3 species last night and like Brian I usually do well earlier in the year,guess it's that time of year when numbers are dropping off and the weather has more of an influence on catches.

I'm probably on the same latitude as you but on the east coast rather than west.

Damian

[pmydon]

Drew a blank last night, but it was very cold out there with hard frost on the ground.

Derek

[ColinD]

Originally Posted by pmydon

Drew a blank last night, but it was very cold out there with hard frost on the ground.

Derek

Hi Derek,
Unfortunately we are now approaching a time of year when species will drop away dramatically. All these folks "darn sarf" don't realise what it's like up here in the frozen north. You will still get moths, but don't expect more than one or two a week, once we get past the first week in October.

I trap all year round, and have caught moths on New Years Eve, and during January frosts, but I can go weeks without a thing, not even a Light Brown Apple moth. Even in April and May I only get 2 or 3 a night, whilst our southern friends are boasting about a trap full. I use a 125W Robinson trap. With an actinic you are likely to get less than me.

It can be disheartening, but stick with it, because once next June, July and August come you will be inundated with moths, to such an extent you'll not be able to do much else in your day. The great thing about moth trapping is that you can catch real rarities without much effort. Last year I had a Brindled Ochre, the first Lancashire record since 1926, and in previous years I've had Blotched Emerald and Barred Sallow, both species which had not been recorded in Lancashire for several years.

Unfortunately though, moths are much more common in the south, and you will never be able to compete with others on this forum when it comes to shear numbers of both species and individuals.

[pmydon]

Hi Bobby,

Thanks for your input. Ken posted details of a great site which tells you what is on the wing in Somerset. Is there a similar site/forum/message board for those of us a little further north and in the North West of England in particular.

Derek

[ColinD]

Originally Posted by pmydon

Hi Bobby,

Thanks for your input. Ken posted details of a great site which tells you what is on the wing in Somerset. Is there a similar site/forum/message board for those of us a little further north and in the North West of England in particular.

Derek

You could try North West Moths on Yahoo Groups at

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/nwmoths/

[Brian Stone]

It's not quite as simple as a north south thing. I catch vastly more moths in my brother in law's garden in Perthshire in early spring than I do here daan saaf because his garden is practically an ancient wood. Many of the same species are involved with a few additions and a few missing.

[WHIMBREL]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

http://www.somersetmothgroup.org.uk/...e+wing+tonight
can be quite a useful indication. The most commonly observed species comes first.
Ken

Excellent link for me Somerset is just 'over the way'....good man Ken.

Regards,

Bill