[barontan2418]

I was wondering if any of you fellow raptorphiles out there have any information relating to how well (or not) our Montagu's Harriers have done this year. I know that the locations of this magnificent raptor are kept on a need to know basis, and rightly so, but it would be good to hear that they are at least stable. To start the ball rolling, I do know that our east coast community had a reasonably good season with 11 young hatched from 5 nests, a 6th nest failed to produce. Are we having much success elsewhere ?

Mick Baron

Leeds

[pauco]

Hi Mick.
the best man to ask about raptors is spar.
put a message on the board for him, and he will get back to you unless he is on line now.
bert.

[Andrew Rowlands]

wpercy is your man for the Southern birds, p.m. him.

Andy.

[Jasonbirder]

It is my understanding that 2003 has been the most succesful year for some time for Montagu`s Harriers

[barontan2418]

Originally Posted by bert

Hi Mick.
the best man to ask about raptors is spar.
put a message on the board for him, and he will get back to you unless he is on line now.
bert.

Thanks Bert, I've sent wpercy a p.m and will do the same to spar, thanks again for replying.

Take care.

Mick

[Gerry Hooper]

Let us all know the results please.

[Jasonbirder]

Why the secrecy about their breeding success? No-one is asking for locations which should stay under wraps (though knowledge does seem to get out...) but surely numbers and counties isn`t privilaged information....never understood that!

[Andrew Rowlands]

Doesn't look like wpercy has been on for a while. 'His' pair successfully fledged some young, I think 3? This was despite the alleged disturbance by a 'well known birder': charges may be pending.

I resisted the urge to visit the site in August, even though they had already fledged, and I was holidaying in the county for a week.

Andy.

[barontan2418]

I wish there were no need for secrecy but I think most of us believe there unfortunately is. Anyway the total young fledged so far is 15 from six nests, good news, but I'm sure it could get better. Many thanks for your replies.



Mick Baron

[Jasonbirder]

I agree secrecy is important with regards to particular sites sometimes that secrecy extends to numbers/success which i do not understand tho!

I sometimes wonder if an accessible breeding site, wardened & with viewing arangements put in place would discourage people from going off to see the sites they know about from friends and contacts...in the long run reducing disturbance? Any thoughts?

[Gerry Hooper]

Fair comment Jason, there was well known televised site a couple of years ago, it was popular and may have reduced disturbance at other sites.

So it's been a reasonably good year for Monty's.
Good stuff, maybe I'll see one next year then!!

[wpercy]

Hi Satrow,
It was four Monts,did not know you were down this way!.

[Colin]

A friend of mine was driving down a road in central England a couple of months or so ago when he saw a raptor fly across the road in front of him. It was not so close as to cause him to brake but close enough for a postive id - Montagu's Harrier. The bird went and perched in a tree. My friend stopped the car in a safe place off the road and got out his scope. While scoping the bird this four wheeled drive vehicle came up and stopped. It had a well known birding logo on it. The chap gets out and asks what my friend is looking at. When my friend replies "Montagu's Harrier" the chaps reply in a gruff voice was "Who told you about that?". My friend replies that no one had told him anything but the bird had just flown across the road as he was driving by. The attitude alerted my friend who subsequently observed 7 birds, which appeared to be 2 pairs each with a young and a lone adult. If this chap had replied with amazement that my friend was looking at a Monties then my friend would have put it down to a passage bird and that he just got lucky with the fly by.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Jasonbirder

Why the secrecy about their breeding success? No-one is asking for locations which should stay under wraps (though knowledge does seem to get out...) but surely numbers and counties isn`t privilaged information....never understood that!

Agreed. To be honest most sites are known to those in the know anyway.

Breeding success rates do not divulge anything! I crack up when speaking to people I've known for years, who protect Goshawks clam up when I ask "what their breeding success was for the year."

Probably I know more breeding sites than them.

Osprey

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

Doesn't look like wpercy has been on for a while. 'His' pair successfully fledged some young, I think 3? This was despite the alleged disturbance by a 'well known birder': charges may be pending.

I resisted the urge to visit the site in August, even though they had already fledged, and I was holidaying in the county for a week.

Andy.

Disturbance by a "well known birder" ? What's that mean? If he was just trying to get nearer the nest (which I don't condone) charges cannot be brought IMHO

Osprey

[Andrew Rowlands]

Originally Posted by Osprey

Disturbance by a "well known birder" ? What's that mean? If he was just trying to get nearer the nest (which I don't condone) charges cannot be brought IMHO

Osprey

This has been mentioned previously (and I think, a name given), in another thread. As this matter is, I presume, sub judice, and I cannot recall circumstances (I was not present), it would be deemed hearsay. Again, wpercy may be able to enlighten us as to the events.

As far as I am aware, any disturbance to a breeding bird, without a license, may be classed as an offense.

I will not approach, eg., the environs of a Hobby or Goshawk nest knowingly, without first informing, then accompanying, a licensed person. Even though I was au fait to the Monty's site in wpercys' patch, I would not go near the field without him being present.

I have yet to see a Monty in the UK.

Andy.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

This has been mentioned previously (and I think, a name given), in another thread. As this matter is, I presume, sub judice, and I cannot recall circumstances (I was not present), it would be deemed hearsay. Again, wpercy may be able to enlighten us as to the events.

As far as I am aware, any disturbance to a breeding bird, without a license, may be classed as an offense.

I will not approach, eg., the environs of a Hobby or Goshawk nest knowingly, without first informing, then accompanying, a licensed person. Even though I was au fait to the Monty's site in wpercys' patch, I would not go near the field without him being present.

I have yet to see a Monty in the UK.

Andy.

A name given! Not cricket that.

You've missed a word out about an offence being commited "KNOWINGLY" If that wording wasn't in the act many farmers, builders, local authoraties etc could be prosecuted!

Osprey

[Andrew Rowlands]

Sorry Osprey,

He was apparently in the same field (which is completely private), yet 'a small field', whereby observation was no problem from the periphery.

Make of it what you will!

Andy.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

Sorry Osprey,

He was apparently in the same field (which is completely private), yet 'a small field', whereby observation was no problem from the periphery.

Make of it what you will!

Andy.

Nothing really: In law a trespass so the only thing that can be done, is ask him to leave by the nearest route to a public footpath or road.

I wouldn't hold your breath about a prosecution, whoever tries to prosecute could well be laughed out of court.

Quite why "A well known birder" would need to get closer I don't know! Photographing maybe. Cannot see that it was to tick it they are easy.

Blimey my spelling in the last post was diabolical, time for bed.

Osprey

[Andrew Rowlands]

"Quite why "A well known birder" would need to get closer I don't know! Photographing maybe. Cannot see that it was to tick it they are easy."

He is not known for his photographs!

Disturbance is disturbance. If he doesn't need to get that close then, with his experience (even with only one eye), he leaves himself open to prosecution.

Andy.

Andy.

[Andrew Rowlands]

Osprey, you said:

"You've missed a word out about an offence being commited "KNOWINGLY" If that wording wasn't in the act many farmers, builders, local authoraties etc could be prosecuted!"

I would contend that the aforementioned do so KNOWINGLY on many occasions, but because they are not "experts" they are given the benefit of doubt when the time comes.

Andy.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

"Quite why "A well known birder" would need to get closer I don't know! Photographing maybe. Cannot see that it was to tick it they are easy."

He is not known for his photographs!

Disturbance is disturbance. If he doesn't need to get that close then, with his experience (even with only one eye), he leaves himself open to prosecution.

Andy.

Andy.

Not many well known birders who use a monocular! Only me.

Not guilty my Lord.

Osprey

[Andrew Rowlands]

Osprey,

it is a small field, he is very experienced; should see the signs of possible breeding - yet still tries to get close?

Not what a lot of less-experienced birders would do.

Even licensed people - most of them would stay on the periphery and observe.

Andy.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

Osprey,

it is a small field, he is very experienced; should see the signs of possible breeding - yet still tries to get close?

Not what a lot of less-experienced birders would do.

Even licensed people - most of them would stay on the periphery and observe.

Andy.

I'm not getting into a flame war! Getting back to the subject of a successful prosecution no hope IMHO.

I wonder who the birder is? No don't answer.

Osprey

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by satrow

Osprey,

it is a small field, he is very experienced; should see the signs of possible breeding - yet still tries to get close?

Not what a lot of less-experienced birders would do.

Even licensed people - most of them would stay on the periphery and observe.

Andy.

Basic Protection
All birds, their nests and eggs are protected by law and it is thus an offence, with certain exceptions intentionally to:

Disturb any wild bird listed on Schedule 1 (includes all harriers) while it is nest building, or at a nest containing eggs or young, or disturb the dependent young of such a bird.

So not an offence to be in a field near a nest IMHO.

Osprey

Osprey