[kittykat23uk]

Dear all

Always one to start planning my holiday early, I'd like some ideas for a wildlife based holiday for next year. Considering I am off to India next month I would say that it would either need to be a main holiday (2 weeks anything up to about £2000 for travel and accommodation) some time in autumn 2008 or a couple of cheaper breaks (c. £200 to 400 for travel and accommodation) with perhaps a view to another biggie in the spring of 2009.

My interests are birding (duh!) but also scuba diving and mammals, particularly big cats. So far I have dived the red sea twice, been on safari /diving in Kenya last November, attempted to dive the dominican republic (2002) and been to India birding/safari in 1995 and of course going again this year.

I loved all the above except the Dom rep, but that was for a variety of reasons, and I'm sure if I were to go again with the right person, things would be a lot different.

This November is my first holiday in five years with my partner and he has only ever been to Europe and never been on a wildlife-based holiday before. If we get on well, hopefully he'll want to come on holiday with me more often and if so, it might be that I go for a couple of shorter breaks, one with him and one either diving or doing something else. He is not so interested in wildlife unless it is big and predatory (he like wolves, big cats, birds of prey etc, but not little brown jobs). He also doesn't get on well in very hot or humid climates. He also likes good food, beer, relaxing and heavy metal!

We have yet to visit North or South America, or most of Europe.

So any ideas gratefully received.

[Liz Watson]

Kittykat23uk,

Somewhere like California is pretty good for a birder/non-birder combo.

It has the non-birder plusses of easy transport (we hired an open top Pontiac Firebird really cheap and a great car for cruising!), good accommodation, food, brewpubs etc, but also great birding.

Yosemite is superb for special birds like Great Grey Owl, Black-Backed Woodpecker etc. plus it has spectacular scenery and big stuff like black bears, moose etc.

Birding on the coast is also really nice, and a pelagic with Debi Shearwater is a must so long as have a strong stomach - we took two pelagics, both fantastic for birds, and saw Blue and Humpback Whales at unbelievably close range.

We were there in August, doing a figure of 8 trip from San Francisco (it's a must to watch Eddie Izzard stand up on SF before you go, sooooo funny).

It suited us great as we had visited the States a few times before, but I think it is one of those places that has much to offer at almost any season.

We've been to over 40 countries birding, but California was a great trip, easy to do on your own - can't wait to go back, still a few species in the south to mop up.

Have fun wherever you go.

[ayasuda]

I recommend New Zealand for the exotic avian species and the lush terrain. It can transition from icy fiords to lush primal rainforests to green coasts. No big predators, but the landscape, birding oportunities, diving oportunities, and the friendly hiking trails make it top of my places to visit.

Otherwise, if your looking for a real rugged adventure. I still think Alaska is the place to go. Eagles, wolves, big bears, big fish, big hoof critters, predatory whales, pinnepeds, and a big stop over for nesting birds. Plan this adventure carefully.

[Stephen C]

Originally Posted by kittykat23uk

... ideas for a wildlife based holiday for next year... either need to be a main holiday (2 weeks anything up to about £2000 for travel and accommodation) ...or a couple of cheaper breaks (c. £200 to 400 for travel and accommodation).

might be ..a couple of shorter breaks, one with him and one either diving or doing something else. He is not so interested in wildlife unless it is big and predatory (he like wolves, big cats, birds of prey etc,). He also doesn't get on well in very hot or humid climates. He also likes good food, beer, relaxing and heavy metal!

You seem to be considering a lot of possibilities so I'm sure you can consider Spain on many fronts. Northern Spain has wolves, bears, (pigs?) etc. And Barcelona and its surroundings, as well as the birds, has the climate, diving (apparently) and I'm sure you can find a metal gig or two (!). Beer and good food go without saying.

Its sounds like you prefer more exotic climes though so have a good one.

All the best

[redeyedvideo]

South Africa's got all you're looking for & more. Your partner couldn't fail to be impressed with Giraffe, Rhino & Elephants etc.

Little brown jobs are good too!


Dave J

[kittykat23uk]

Thank you all for your ideas! Keep them coming! Spain was one place we were thinking of. I found a week long trip with naturetrek wolftracking for about £600 which my OH thinks is a bit pricey for just a week. He has found one in Romania, but I have a feeling that there is a better chance of seeing wolves on the spanish trip..

[Jos Stratford]

Originally Posted by kittykat23uk

Thank you all for your ideas! Keep them coming! Spain was one place we were thinking of. I found a week long trip with naturetrek wolftracking for about £600 which my OH thinks is a bit pricey for just a week. He has found one in Romania, but I have a feeling that there is a better chance of seeing wolves on the spanish trip..

Bears are easier in Romania though

[steve west]

If your partner likes "big birds" then the Ebro delta wouldn't be a bad place with Flamingoes, herons, geese and the like. And then just inland you could see Spanish Ibex, vultures and eagles in els Ports.
For a combination of diving and birds the best bet would probably be around the Cap de Creus/Aiguamolls of Empordà.
I've never seen wolves, basically because I've never looked for them. The Naturetrek tour takes you to the best wolfing regions in Spain , and they have good local guides who have a high success rate of producing observations. However, don't get the impression that you will be sitting watching wolves non-stop for 5 days!

Steve
http://www.birdinginspain.com

[kittykat23uk]

No the tour didn't give me that impression, although it is quite encouraging the level of success they seem to have. I only wish the tour were a little longer. Would it be difficult to add on an extension to some of the other areas you mention without having to hire a car? I don't think either of us would be confident driving in a foreign country..

[kittykat23uk]

Originally Posted by redeyedvideo

South Africa's got all you're looking for & more. Your partner couldn't fail to be impressed with Giraffe, Rhino & Elephants etc.

Little brown jobs are good too!


Dave J

not to mention cage diving with some big sharks! Yes thats on my list too!!

[steve west]

Originally Posted by kittykat23uk

No the tour didn't give me that impression, although it is quite encouraging the level of success they seem to have. I only wish the tour were a little longer. Would it be difficult to add on an extension to some of the other areas you mention without having to hire a car? I don't think either of us would be confident driving in a foreign country..

I'm afraid getting to decent birding sites without a car in Spain is either excessively time-consuming or mission near impossible. I don't know what your driving is like, but I don't think that you would have to suffer too much on the roads in northern Spain. This spring I was driving in Marrakech, now THAT is a completely different story!
Although I'd have to glance at a map, you probably wouldn't be that far from Villafáfila, a great site for Great Bustards and wintering geese, and then there's also the Azud de Riolobos (I think, I never get over there, so look in an atlas before taking me on my word).
STeve
http://www.birdinginspain.com

[Steve Babbs]

Originally Posted by redeyedvideo

South Africa's got all you're looking for & more. Your partner couldn't fail to be impressed with Giraffe, Rhino & Elephants etc.

Little brown jobs are good too!


Dave J

I second that South Africa is amazing and an easy, relatively cheap country to travel in.

Steve
http://www.freewebs.com/stevebabbs/index.htm

[kittykat23uk]

He does seem quite warm to the South Africa idea.. Best see how India plays out before getting my hopes up though..

[Jos Stratford]

Originally Posted by kittykat23uk

He does seem quite warm to the South Africa idea.. Best see how India plays out before getting my hopes up though..

Another vote for South Africa - I've spent several months on the Indian Subcontinent and over a year in South Africa, whilst the India is amazing, South Africa just knocks spots off it. In short, South Africa has got everything, be you a birder or non-birder, you can not fail to be impressed. Weather to suit all, landscapes from high mountain to desert, sub-tropical forest to fynbos, big game animals in abundance, both Indian and Atlantic Oceans, no worries with illness (cf. India) and, in reality (for the toursit), no worries with regard crime. Bird list is staggeringly high, species are dramatic and, generally, very easy to see. On top of that, facilities are good, roads good and the trip can be done at almost any budget from very low upwards. Self-drive car hire is a doddle.

[mcali]

... and another vote for South Africa. I went there on my honeymoon this year, so definatley not a birding trip, but still saw over 200 lifers. Also saw the big 5 mammals, and sat in a cage with 7 Great White Sharks swimming around us (my wife didn't like that bit).

[BrightonBirder]

Maybe not within your budget is Honduras (flights would eat up the budget). Amazing birding along the caribean coast and the best diving in the the americas on the islands.

Another choice may be Cuba. There is limited diving opportunities in a few places, some neat birds and its cheap. The other big benefit is no americans! Fly to Canada and you can catch a flight or an all inclusive vacation package.

[kittykat23uk]

Hi All,

well we are back from India and my OH coped rather well, though he had his moments! Now, still considering ideas for our next trip together and the things he enjoyed on this one were the wildlife (particularly the tigers and the birds of prey- such as the eagles). He also enjoyed being out in the game parks and up in the foothills of the himalayas. Now, the things he didn't enjoy were the crowds of people at the touristy sites, the constant hassling of touts and beggars, the train journeys and the lack of western comforts. He would ideally like to go somewhere where there are eagles next time and where he can chill out and relax and take in the wildlife at a more sedate pace without having to worry about the above annoyances. He will be hard pressed to afford much this year and I was wondering whether a trip to Scotland to look for white tailed and golden eagles and some other scottish specialties like cappercaille would be feasible. Another idea is Spain for wolves or somewhere like Norway for orcas or Finland for bears/wolves. South Africa is still on the cards but probably not for next year. So any opinions on where to go and what to see and ideas for good accommodation would be gratefully received.

Thanks for all your help!

Jo

[rosbifs]

French Pyrenees. We have Eagles, Vultures, Mountains, not too hot, not too cold.
Budget to suit.....
Gavarnie is one of the wonders of Europe.
Pic du Midi a great day out.
Lourdes an experience.
Pau cheap flights and a great city to visit.

[kittykat23uk]

Ooh thats a new one. will consider that as well. Thanks!

[GDK]

Originally Posted by kittykat23uk

Ooh thats a new one. will consider that as well. Thanks!

For something a bit different look at Sabah, Borneo

Great diving, great birds. Large mammals = Proboscis monkey, Bornean Gibbon, Orang-utan, pigmy elephant. I did 3 weeks for under £1500 and stayed at some expensive sites. All well set up and not too much of a slog for rainforest birding - but check rainy season timing.

Must visit birding sites:

Mt Kinabalu - montane rainforest
Sukau - boat based birding and all mammals above (bat caves etc)
Danum Valley - lowland rainforest Orangutan/Gibbon/elephant etc night drives at rainforest lodge.

diving - plenty of info on web.

Birding can be a bit slow in rainforest (eg Kinabalu/Danum) so if you want to see large no's of birds tho go to SAfrica.

[john-henry]

IF your OH likes Eagles, Vultures etc then Southern Spain in Autumn is a must to see the migration of hundreds, if not thousands migrating birds of prey, sometimes just overhead.
Have a look at this website http://www.olivaramatours.com/

Jules is an excellent guide and a great person in himself as many on here will testify. One of his holidays could be the answer for you, in particular I'm thinking of the Andalusian Adventure ones, accommodation, food, transport is all provided all you have to do is sit back and enjoy the wildlife, and of course Spain.

Have a look at Jules site, especially the Holidays Home link.

Regards

John

[kittykat23uk]

Thanks John.

Regards

Jo

[Nick Elliston]

Whipsnade Zoo?

[steve west]

I still can't see any reason for you discarding northeast Spain. Creature comforts, excellent hotels and communications, big birds, etc.
Have you looked at the possibilities on the web page:
http://www.birdinginspain.com

Steve

[em1980]

Hiya

Have a look at ultimate pelagics, they charter luxury cruise liners to go whale dolphin and seabird watching.

Fantasic if you can get a balcony suite a real treat for any wildlife enthusiast.

Em