Binocular Evolution I: Field of View (2 Viewers)

[Paultricounty]

I wouldn’t call wide fov a fad, as the current fov race is in compact roof format, and furthermore adds the challenges of internal focusing, and good edge correction.

Not having owned a vintage ultrawide, but the photos suggest substantial weight, and externally focused design.

Kimmik,

Maybe a bad choice of words on my part. I agree the new wide field roof binoculars (not so wide) are a different animal and technology. I think if the latest and greatest ever get over 10° + , it would be a complete game changer. Ad IS and were in a whole different world. Like going from old flip phones to a modern smart phone, it'll shake up the world.

Yes, the the vintage WF bins are heavy, built to last, external porro focuser. The fact that they still function like the day they came out of the box 50-70 years ago is testament to their over built quality. I doubt very much when my grand kids are in there 40's the SF's will still be working.

On some of them, like the 10 and 11 degree ones, they have a surprisingly good image circle. Fall off is gradual and not funky. After 11 degrees things get a little weird , panning can be brutal on some of them if your faint of heart and notice globe effect. Its kind of the definition of globe effect and almost everyone can see it. But the views are incredible. I think a lot people who've never tried one of these high end WF vintage binos would be shocked how good the image is with such a picture window FOV.

Paul

 

[Thotmosis]

There are far more compact EWA designs than the 7x35 Japanese porros. Like the 6x24 Komz super wide or the 6x25 skeleton binos (one of my absolute favourite super wide angle) with 11.5°.
I think the most impressive are still the 8x30, 10° models however. Those really feel like you can no longer see where the FoV ends without rolling your eyes around. And they are fairly compact for porros.
True, they all have external focusing but I know how to open them should they ever get dust or moisture inside. The Komz 6x24 is also pretty well sealed with the felt on the ocular shafts that keeps out dust and moisture to a certain degree and the rest of the body being pretty well sealed with the typical "Russian black goo".
I think these old things kick behinds.
If you find a good one it will be as sharp as todays top models but not as bright of course because of the coatings. Some are fairly good though and for daytime use I don't really need 90+ % light transmission.

The most compact wide angle design would be the 2x54 starfield binos of course.

WONDERFUL PICTURES

 

[Binocollector]

WONDERFUL PICTURES

Thanks . The last one was for fun. But those 2x54 are pretty awesome. Roaming the night sky with them is a sight to behold.

@Paultricounty
I guess you mean "pincushion"? Which is implemented to counter globe effect. But scanning up and down can have quite some interesting effects with lines at the edge bending up and down. Panning from side to side however is perfectly fine I think. The wide angle 7x50s are not nearly as extreme with the pincushion distortion btw.
The modern day Kowa BDII has a way more annoying mustache distortion however which actually leads to globe effect. The oldies pan much nicer for my eyes.

 

[Thotmosis]

Thanks . The last one was for fun. But those 2x54 are pretty awesome. Roaming the night sky with them is a sight to behold.

Im thinking of getting a pair myself ✨

 

[Paultricounty]

Thanks . The last one was for fun. But those 2x54 are pretty awesome. Roaming the night sky with them is a sight to behold.

@Paultricounty
I guess you mean "pincushion"? Which is implemented to counter globe effect. But scanning up and down can have quite some interesting effects with lines at the edge bending up and down. Panning from side to side however is perfectly fine I think. The wide angle 7x50s are not nearly as extreme with the pincushion distortion btw.
The modern day Kowa BDII has a way more annoying mustache distortion however which actually leads to globe effect. The oldies pan much nicer for my eyes.

I should've said rolling eye, its a residual pincushion effect. It's extremely noticeable on some of the 11° and up. I have a few of them and I'm not sure why some are worse than others. I have a Swift sport king which is the worst of all of the 11th degree wide fields I have at the moment. Yet the Swift Holiday MKII is one of the best in this area. Would Bk7 and Bak4 make a a big difference in this type of distortion?

 

[Binocollector]

@Paultricounty
I don't think the glass type has any effect on the distortion profile. So far I found only 3 wide angles with BaK4 -- the Komz 6x24 (technically not BaK4 but close) a "Scope" 7x50 EWA (one of my very best) and a Kamakura labeled "Bresser" 8x30 but it's no 11° - I'd have to look what the FoV is.
The Komz has similar distortion to the Kowa BDII -- slight mustache distortion. The other 2 have normal pincushion that increases over the FoV.

 

[Paultricounty]

@Paultricounty
I don't think the glass type has any effect on the distortion profile. So far I found only 3 wide angles with BaK4 -- the Komz 6x24 (technically not BaK4 but close) a "Scope" 7x50 EWA (one of my very best) and a Kamakura labeled "Bresser" 8x30 but it's no 11° - I'd have to look what the FoV is.
The Komz has similar distortion to the Kowa BDII -- slight mustache distortion. The other 2 have normal pincushion that increases over the FoV.

All the other Japanese wide fields I have Bushnell/Tamron and FPO, Tasco and Swifts are all high index BaK4 , except for the swift Sport King and it’s the worst one with the distortion.

 

[Binocollector]

All the other Japanese wide fields I have Bushnell/Tamron and FPO, Tasco and Swifts are all high index BaK4 , except for the swift Sport King and it’s the worst one with the distortion.

Interesting but I think it is not because of the glass. The only difference I notice is that BaK4 is sharper and has more contrast but that might be in part due to the coatings. My Scope EWA 7x50 (I think it has 10.5°) has slightly amber-colored "UV"-Coatings as does my "Bresser" Kamakura 8x30 and both are amongst my sharpest binos. The "Scope" is actually sharper on axis than the FMTR-SX2 Fuji 7x50. So that's 2 factors being similar between these two models, BaK4 and "amber" UV-coatings.
But one my favourite EWAs, the skeleton 6x25 has BK7. It is not quite as sharp but has a more neutral color rendition. But this one also has amber colored coatings. As can be seen in the pics above.
Most of the other old porros with BaK4 that I own are no EWAs, like the Hartmann 8x30 "Porlerim" or an 8x30 Optolyth or the 8x30 Zeiss Jena.
I don't think I know enough about the inner workings of these models to make a claim either way. I have excellent wide angle models with BK7 as well as BaK4.

 

[etudiant]

Wider angle means lesser eye relief, barring heroic optics.
For those of us who need glasses, that reduces the fun.
I'd love to see a 12* 10x32 glass with 15mm eye relief, but am still waiting.

 

[Binocollector]

Wider angle means lesser eye relief, barring heroic optics.

Especially the older porros. But the Kowa BDII 6.5x32 for example is perfectly usable with glasses (or the Nikon Action EX 7x35 -- though I am not much of a fan of those) and I need a lot of eye relief if I wanna use a bino with glasses. My eyes are deep-set and my glasses have a thick plastic frame (and I have a long nose and high ridge). Even some modern roofs don't have enough eye-relief for me. The Nikon P7 for instance was especially horrible (I hate that bino. Cheap plastic crap and they are basically lying when claiming it is usable with glasses. Even if the frame of my glasses was super thin -- I couldn't use these with glasses on).
12° on a 10x32 seems rather unrealistic though.
Some of the vintage-fans on CN remove the eyecups completely and put rubber o-rings around the oculars to prevent scratches. Some of the super wides seem to work that way.

 

[Paultricounty]

Wider angle means lesser eye relief, barring heroic optics.
For those of us who need glasses, that reduces the fun.
I'd love to see a 12* 10x32 glass with 15mm eye relief, but am still waiting.

Absolutely, the 12.5° Tasco 7x35 is a ridiculous 10 mm. You have to put your eyes right up against the glass, your eyelashes get in the way. Yet the Bushnell 10° has 14. I think the Sears 13.5 has 8mm of eye relief.

 

[Paultricounty]

Especially the older porros. But the Kowa BDII 6.5x32 for example is perfectly usable with glasses (or the Nikon Action EX 7x35 -- though I am not much of a fan of those) and I need a lot of eye relief if I wanna use a bino with glasses. My eyes are deep-set and my glasses have a thick plastic frame (and I have a long nose and high ridge). Even some modern roofs don't have enough eye-relief for me. The Nikon P7 for instance was especially horrible (I hate that bino. Cheap plastic crap and they are basically lying when claiming it is usable with glasses. Even if the frame of my glasses was super thin -- I couldn't use these with glasses on).
12° on a 10x32 seems rather unrealistic though.
Some of the vintage-fans on CN remove the eyecups completely and put rubber o-rings around the oculars to prevent scratches. Some of the super wides seem to work that way.

Exactly.

 

[cytherian]

Thanks . The last one was for fun. But those 2x54 are pretty awesome. Roaming the night sky with them is a sight to behold.

@Paultricounty
I guess you mean "pincushion"? Which is implemented to counter globe effect. But scanning up and down can have quite some interesting effects with lines at the edge bending up and down. Panning from side to side however is perfectly fine I think. The wide angle 7x50s are not nearly as extreme with the pincushion distortion btw.
The modern day Kowa BDII has a way more annoying mustache distortion however which actually leads to globe effect. The oldies pan much nicer for my eyes.

I never would have considered something like this in the past... but wow. It's something to gaze up at the night sky and then use binoculars or a telescope to focus in on something of interest, but to take a kind of naked-eye style view and just double or triple the magnification while keeping a very wide view... like being in a planetarium, but with real active stars in view.

 

[Binocollector]

@cytherian
This things are definitely amazing. I even use them sometimes during the day. It's like having bionic vision. And they have 36° FoV so even with glasses the view is still pretty impressive.
At night they go one magnitude deeper than when looking with the naked eye. And you can fit whole constellations like "The Swan" into the FoV. Especially impressive under dark skies of course but that is true for any stargazing with binos.
But even under slightly light-polluted skies they work pretty well because they are so bright. And the low magnification makes the views rock solid of course. Sometimes in the summer, I just lie on a bench or zero gravity chair flat on my back and rest them on my eyes. Amazing views.
And despite being Made in China (I think there was an earlier version made in Japan) they are really high quality. Everything is just glass and metal.
Despite the super wide view the edges are pretty damn sharp.
Holger did a review of the 2.3x40 version which is based on an old Russian opera glass AFAIK.

Review: Opera glass 2.3x40 (United Optics)

And there is a very long thread about these low mag starfield binos on Cloudy Nights if you're interested in more info.

Finally the 2x54 ultimate sky roamer - Page 14 - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Page 14 of 15 - Finally the 2x54 ultimate sky roamer - posted in Binoculars:

www.cloudynights.com

And someone also built his own version at home:

Home built Nikon 2x54 widefield binos - Page 38 - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Page 38 of 38 - Home built Nikon 2x54 widefield binos - posted in Binoculars: Lets see how it fits first... CAD always looks nice Printing now...

www.cloudynights.com

Edit: I bought mine here but the same version is sold by Orion:

Omegon Fernglas 2x54 für Sternfeldbeobachtung

Tiefe Blicke in den Sternenhimmel - Wie wäre es, hunderte Sterne zu sehen, ganze Sternbilder und Himmelsobjekte? Mit dieser Sternfeldbrille gelingt das ganz einfach. Damit kön...

www.astroshop.de

Orion 2x54 Ultra Wide Angle Binoculars

The Orion 2x54 Ultra Wide Angle Binoculars turn the sky into your own personal star chart! Shop online - 100% satisfaction guaranteed!

www.telescope.com

Edit again: there are smaller 2x40 versions but the 54 is the most impressive with the widest FoV (as FoV is determined by objective size in this design) and has the sharpest edges of the FoV.