Dowitcher help Alberni-Clayoquot District, British Columbia August 13 (1 Viewer)

[chipster454]

Also while at Combers Beach, I saw some Dowitchers. Based on the barring on the tail (White appears as thick as the black), I think the one in the back is a Short-Billed Dowitcher?

 

[tom baxter]

These are juvenile Short-billed Dowitchers. The orange outlined flight feathers are diagnostic in this juvenile plumage. This is probably the one variety of dowitcher plumage that is quite noticeably distinct.

 

[jmepler]

Barring on the tail is not a great field mark in my opinion. The marked tertials of juvenile Short-billed Dowithchers (which these birds are) is definitive.

 

[chipster454]

Thank you both for the reply. I always struggle with Dowitchers. It's always good to get a couple more opinions.

 

[Butty]

orange outlined flight feathers

Not sure exactly what you mean here... tertials? greater coverts? (Flight-feathers normally means primaries and secondaries.)

 

[tom baxter]

Not sure exactly what you mean here... tertials? greater coverts? (Flight-feathers normally means primaries and secondaries.)

Tertials and scapulars on this bird it looks like... I often use "flight feathers" to refer to any feathers belonging to the wings. Whether this is appropriate or not, I am not sure, but it makes sense to me intuitively. I use the term "flight feathers" this way because I am unaware of another more precise term or phrase that refers to the collective general grouping of wing feathers.

 

[Butty]

I am unaware of another more precise term or phrase that refers to the collective general grouping of wing feathers.

Just 'wing feathers' is the term for that 👍🏻

Topography - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

 

[Indobirder]

Tertials and scapulars on this bird it looks like... I often use "flight feathers" to refer to any feathers belonging to the wings. Whether this is appropriate or not, I am not sure, but it makes sense to me intuitively. I use the term "flight feathers" this way because I am unaware of another more precise term or phrase that refers to the collective general grouping of wing feathers.

FWIW, it's specifically the tertials where this matters. And it's about whether they have "tiger stripes" inside (i.e. it's not about the edges to the feathers).

Anyways, agree on ID 👍

 

[tom baxter]

FWIW, it's specifically the tertials where this matters. And it's about whether they have "tiger stripes" inside (i.e. it's not about the edges to the feathers).

Anyways, agree on ID 👍

Agreed that the tiger striped tertials are the most obvious distinction. However, I believe there is a difference in appearance with the orange outlined scapulars/mantle. I’ve never critically analyzed it because it just looks noticeably different but I think juvenile LB have darker centers to those feathers outlined in orange. The “scaly” look of juvenile SB is much accentuated by the tiger striped tertials though. It is fair to draw all the attention to the tertials because this will secure the ID.

 

[tom baxter]

Just 'wing feathers' is the term for that 👍🏻

Topography - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

It appears that according to the opus link, the term “Flight Feathers” is to include the tertials, but it does not specify that it includes scapulars. This all seems unnecessarily technical and arbitrary to me. Why does this not apply to all wing feathers? They are after all flight feathers, even if they are not “Flight Feathers”. I do appreciate an opportunity to discuss this. I’m always open to learning to be more technically correct, but it does leave a little confusion still.

 

[qwerty5]

As I understand it, the term flight feathers (or remiges) refers specifically to those wing feathers that are long, stiff, and asymmetrical (the primaries and secondaries). These are the feathers that actually support the bird during flight. As I'm sure you know, the coverts and scapulars have a much different structure and function, more like body feathers. So the difference in terminology is presumably due to the difference in structure, and the fact that the primaries and secondaries are the ones primarily facilitating flight. This distinction can be helpful if one needs to refer to areas of the wing without being precise down to the individual feather tracts. The primaries and secondaries can be called flight feathers, and the rest are all coverts of various kinds.

 

[Butty]

“Flight Feathers” is to include the tertials, but it does not specify that it includes scapulars

Correct, yes. Tertials are the innermost secondaries - so, flight-feathers = secondaries (including tertials) + primaries. Scapulars are not included.

...it does leave a little confusion still

Certainly one may have one's personal feelings about what specific words might best and most-intuitively be used to describe certain feather-tracts, but... there's no confusion in the current widespread accepted usage. As defined above, the term is explicit and unambiguous.

 

[tom baxter]

Thank you both for the clarification and added context. I am usually the type to speak and operate off the cuff, so I surely miss things like this. It is nice to learn from you both. I will be sure to properly integrate this, as is the same with the distinction between primary projection vs primary extension that we had discussed in the past.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Not sure exactly what you mean here... tertials? greater coverts? (Flight-feathers normally means primaries and secondaries.)

The field guides, from memory, say tertials.