Macgregoria pulchra carolinae Junge, 1939 & Pitohui kirhocephalus carolinae Junge, 1952 (1 Viewer)

[Taphrospilus]

Macgregoria pulchra carolinae Junge, 1939
Pitohui kirhocephalus carolinae Junge, 1952

Discussed here:

This bird was described by George Christoffel Alexander Junge, Jr in 1939. (The Birds of South New Guinea. Part II. Passeres. In: Nova Guinea: a journal of botany, zoology, anthropology, ethnography, geology and palaeontology of the Papuan region. vol 3, 1939, p 1-94). According to Jobling (2010) carolinae could refer to Caroline La Touche (fl. 1898), wife of British ornithologist JohnLaTouche (Brachypteryx). My question is now. Did Junge commemorated this bird to Caroline La Touche or does the epithet carolinae refer to another person?

Thought to bring the topic to etymology and not nomencalture forum.

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds claims:

MacGregor's Honeyeater ssp. Macgregoria pulchra carolinae Junge, 1939
Variable Pitohuissp. Pitohui kirhocephalus carolinae Junge, 1952
Carolina Lydia Junge née Slingervoet Ramondt (b.1904) was the wife of the describer.

The Key to Scientific Names

Carolina Lydia Junge née Slingervoet Ramondt (b. 1904) wife of Dutch zoologist Dr George Christofell Alexander Junge (subsp. Macgregoria pulchra, subsp. Pitohui kirhocephalus).

So it seems still not clear when she died? Maybe time to bring the topic back to discussion.

 

[rollie_nl]

Macgregoria pulchra carolinae Junge, 1939
Pitohui kirhocephalus carolinae Junge, 1952

Discussed here:


Thought to bring the topic to etymology and not nomencalture forum.

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds claims:


The Key to Scientific Names


So it seems still not clear when she died? Maybe time to bring the topic back to discussion.

According to here , the exact date of birth is 9 April 1904. She was born in Amsterdam. She married Junge on 19 October 1935. She died on 5 April 1987: see here.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Well done, and well found "Rollie"

One minor, tiny remark/question (for James, that is), not re. Caroline, but re. her husband G. C. A. Junge ...

It might be worth taking a look at the given names of Mr Junge himself.

In today's Key he's:

jungei
Dr George Christofell Alexander Junge (1905-1962) Dutch ornithologist at RijksMuseum van Natuurlijke Historie, Leiden 1934-1962, editor of ‘Ardea’ 1938-1962 ...

... though, in the Obituary, by Voous, his (full) name was; George Christoffel Alexander Junge (here).

Which one is the correct one, is unknown to me.

Dutch Wiki here. English ditto here, and note that the Stadsarchief Amsterdam has him as:

• George Christoffel Alexander Junge, geboren op 7 augustus 1905 te Haarlem

I tend towards the latter -offel version.

Björn

PS. Either way, he's not to confuse with his Father and namesake.

 

[rollie_nl]

Well done, and well found "Rollie"

One minor, tiny remark/question (for James, that is), not re. Caroline, but re. her husband G. C. A. Junge ...

It might be worth taking a look at the given names of Mr Junge himself.

In today's Key he's:


... though, in the Obituary, by Voous, his (full) name was; George Christoffel Alexander Junge (here).

Which one is the correct one, is unknown to me.

Dutch Wiki here. English ditto here, and note that the Stadsarchief Amsterdam has him as:


I tend towards the latter -offel version.

Björn

PS. Either way, he's not to confuse with his Father and namesake.

De -offel version is correct: it is the way the Dutch would write Christoffel. In the Netherlands, almost no word ends in double l (ll). That is more of a English writing style.

 

[PScofield]

Nice finds Rollie - I see she is Caroline in all records and Lijdia in several records. I assume this is dialectual (edit) Comment?

 

[rollie_nl]

Nice finds Rollie - I see she is Caroline in all records and Lijdia in several records. I assume this is dilectual. Comment?

Hi Paul,
I tried hard to find what dilectual means but I failed. Without knowing I can however say that her first given name is Caroline (not Carolina as is now in the key) and her second given name is Lydia (sometimes written as Lijdia). In the official documents she is always Caroline. I hope that still answers your question.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

To me, the alleged claim of her second given name:

• Caroline Lijdia Slingervoet Ramondt, geboren op 9 april 1904 te Amsterdam

... might origin in a misreading of the original document in/at the Stadsarchief, Amsterdam (excerpt below):



I read it as Caroline Lydia ...

Or, maybe, possibly Lẏdia?

Either way; same, same, but different

Björn

 

[l_raty]

Nice finds Rollie - I see she is Caroline in all records and Lijdia in several records. I assume this is dilectual. Comment?

Lijdia is a Dutch (less frequent) variant of Lydia.

(Historically, ij and y have been treated as more or less interchangeable in a lot of Dutch words -- many words that are now written with one have also been written with the other at some point. In Belgium at least, y variants (of words that should now be spelled with ij) are preserved in a significant number of surnames -- e.g. De Ryke, a variant of De Rijke, etc. In Afrikaans, which is rooted in Dutch, y replaces ij completely, e.g. fynbos < fyn, in Dutch fijn, fine + bos, wood.)

The original document appears to have only one dot, instead of the expected two, on the putative ij; hence it is, in any case, not unambiguously readable as Lijdia.

 

[PScofield]

Sorry but I think there are two dots



here is the name Stijntje from two pages later



Ultimately its pretty irrelevant as its all the same name