Safe and effective cleaning fluids for greasy smudges on glass surfaces (2 Viewers)

[WJC]

I wonder where you get that info. I happen to work with optics at one of those institutions and can assure you neither I nor anyone else I have seen use windex to clean optics. We do use the windex foaming glass cleaner to clean non-optical surfaces but never anything in a light path. Interestingly I also remember recently you claimed that acetone was the optics cleaner of choice at that same list of institutions.

230909

Hi has 530:

You wrote:

“I wonder where you get that information.”

I got it from 50 years in the optics industry, 12,000+ binocular repair and collimation jobs, firsthand experience dealing with optical engineering and repair, being a Chief Opticalman for the Navy, being friends with optical engineers, corporate heads of optical sales and repair companies in the United States and Europe, respected authors of optically-oriented books, as well as the movers and shakers who frequent BirdForum, and I know the difference between popular, ego-stroking bull crap and rational thought. I know that BF is built on OPINION. However, I don't play that game.

Next you say:

“I happen to work with optics at one of those institutions and can assure you neither I nor anyone else I have seen use windex to clean optics.”

I have never been ashamed of who I have done optics for: the Navy, the Navy Reserve (where I was selected chief optical tech for SIMA San Diego, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (where I was also a test director), Fort Lewis (now Lewis-McChord), US Department of Defense, and 21 years at the late Captain’s Nautical Supplies in Seattle.

Thus, “I happen to work with optics at one of those institutions AND CAN ASSURE YOU NEITHER I NOR ANYONE ELSE I HAVE SEEN USE WINDEX TO CLEAN OPTICS.”

I would be more impressed if you would tell us the name of that company, the optical title you held, and the length of time you were in that role. Be advised however, that the credentials of Ph.Ds. don’t impress me if I know they are wrong. That is why I was invited to speak on Collimation vs Conditional Alignment to the optical Ph.Ds. at SPIE’s 2012 Photonics West in San Diego. (Attachment 1)

But then, as Mark Twain said:

“Truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie.”

I would appreciate being your friend. But I have a job to do. In order to do it, I have to keep my credibility intact. So, if you persist in nipping at my heels, you may ultimately wish you hadn’t, for I have only scratched the surface on sharing my credentials and associations in the optical industry.

Friends?

Bill

 

[has530]

230909

Hi has 530:

You wrote:

“I wonder where you get that information.”

I got it from 50 years in the optics industry, 12,000+ binocular repair and collimation jobs, firsthand experience dealing with optical engineering and repair, being a Chief Opticalman for the Navy, being friends with optical engineers, corporate heads of optical sales and repair companies in the United States and Europe, respected authors of optically-oriented books, as well as the movers and shakers who frequent BirdForum, and I know the difference between popular, ego-stroking bull crap and rational thought. I know that BF is built on OPINION. However, I don't play that game.

Next you say:

“I happen to work with optics at one of those institutions and can assure you neither I nor anyone else I have seen use windex to clean optics.”

I have never been ashamed of who I have done optics for: the Navy, the Navy Reserve (where I was selected chief optical tech for SIMA San Diego, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (where I was also a test director), Fort Lewis (now Lewis-McChord), US Department of Defense, and 21 years at the late Captain’s Nautical Supplies in Seattle.

Thus, “I happen to work with optics at one of those institutions AND CAN ASSURE YOU NEITHER I NOR ANYONE ELSE I HAVE SEEN USE WINDEX TO CLEAN OPTICS.”

I would be more impressed if you would tell us the name of that company, the optical title you held, and the length of time you were in that role. Be advised however, that the credentials of Ph.Ds. don’t impress me if I know they are wrong. That is why I was invited to speak on Collimation vs Conditional Alignment to the optical Ph.Ds. at SPIE’s 2012 Photonics West in San Diego. (Attachment 1)

But then, as Mark Twain said:

“Truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie.”

I would appreciate being your friend. But I have a job to do. In order to do it, I have to keep my credibility intact. So, if you persist in nipping at my heels, you may ultimately with you hadn’t, for I have only scratched the surface on sharing my credentials and associations in the optical industry.

Friends?

Bill

I greatly appreciate your sharing of your expertise on these forums and don't mean it as a personal attack when correcting you. If you had said "I use windex" I would have gratefully accepted that tip as I am sure few if any people alive have serviced and repaired more binoculars than you. Rather what I took issue with was you claiming that it is what I use at my job. I am a physicist at the livermore national lab (here is a paper describing one of the main optical systems I work on for anyone curious A multi-wavelength streaked optical pyrometer for dynamic shock compression measurements above 2500 K). I can assure you I have never seen anyone use windex here or any lab I have ever worked in with optics. That doesn't mean one can't, just that it's not what is done in one of the facilities you claimed it was. For me, your credentials and experience would be enough without the need to claim others do the same.

 

[WJC]

I greatly appreciate your sharing of your expertise on these forums and don't mean it as a personal attack when correcting you. If you had said "I use windex" I would have gratefully accepted that tip as I am sure few if any people alive have serviced and repaired more binoculars than you. Rather what I took issue with was you claiming that it is what I use at my job. I am a physicist at the livermore national lab (here is a paper describing one of the main optical systems I work on for anyone curious A multi-wavelength streaked optical pyrometer for dynamic shock compression measurements above 2500 K). I can assure you I have never seen anyone use windex here or any lab I have ever worked in with optics. That doesn't mean one can't, just that it's not what is done in one of the facilities you claimed it was. For me, your credentials and experience would be enough without the need to claim others do the same.

Now, you are in the realm of reality. I can appreciate that very much. LLL was the first real job for my friend Ken Moore, the writer of Zemax. Photo of my hard keys attached. I bought my first copy while Ken and Michelle were on the road between UofA and Livermore.

But since you have toned things down, I would be PLEASED to share the WHYS of my comments and think you would appreciate the logic. So many people, who don't know which end is up, often want to take me to task because they have looked through 3 or 4 binos and have dubbed themselves an expert—frustrating to one trying to raise the bar of understanding. "Mr. Bill" Bill Faatz of Cloudy Nights said he did optics there and he once shared a photo of a large container of Windex with me and stated it is what they used. I had no reason to doubt the fellow. This was before 1993 when J&J bought the company and the formula started changing. I also know optical engineer and founder of Tele Vue optics has used Windex since the mid-sixties. I was a dealer and we were closer before I designed and introduced the Baywatch (attached).

Further, I have been associated with the US government many years, and I know how they are easily swayed by bogus "facts." Many folks would be shocked by how "MIL Spec" is doctored and used—I just roll my eyes. If I said what I know, I would again be crucified. I also know that BF is a major home for those seeking an ego stroke by trying to have their opinions raised to fact. I can't go there. If they need that kind of adoration, they need to get an Irish Setter.

While this is at a good conclusion, I think you should be more vocal on BF. If for no other reason than to share some the heat I generate. Misery loves company.

So, if you will now kiss my ring, I'll let ya go. 😇

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Paultricounty]

I greatly appreciate your sharing of your expertise on these forums and don't mean it as a personal attack when correcting you. If you had said "I use windex" I would have gratefully accepted that tip as I am sure few if any people alive have serviced and repaired more binoculars than you. Rather what I took issue with was you claiming that it is what I use at my job. I am a physicist at the livermore national lab (here is a paper describing one of the main optical systems I work on for anyone curious A multi-wavelength streaked optical pyrometer for dynamic shock compression measurements above 2500 K). I can assure you I have never seen anyone use windex here or any lab I have ever worked in with optics. That doesn't mean one can't, just that it's not what is done in one of the facilities you claimed it was. For me, your credentials and experience would be enough without the need to claim others do the same.

A nice humble gentlemanly response 🙏🏼.

Ive Been humbled by Bill more than once. Even though he barks and bites, there probably aren’t too many human beings on the planet that know as much as he when it comes to binoculars.

Paul

 

[S_Man]

Oh oh. Diatribe ending with "AND HOW MANY BINOCULARS HAVE YOU SERVICED???" heading your way as we speak...

And he really did... I can't believe that!

 

[wllmspd]

We normally get our stuff at the electro-opto-mechanical supermarket that is Thorlabs, no longer necessary to have a shelf of different catalogs to go through. They even give you “lab snacks” if you buy enough….

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_ID=330

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=9025

I note that they mention “approved solvent”, to allow other people to use other things (other than IPA/methanol) if necessarily.
I’m a drag-n-drop/drop-n-drag chap, IPA being less harsh on the fingers, though I went through a phase using using ethanol when I worked with optical fibres, though I swear I had colleagues who used to drink it when I wasn’t looking.
I can attest to the caution about cleaning “Pellicle” beamsplitters, though in my case it was a finger, rather than overuse of the “dusting gas” that was the issue ;-)

Peter

 

[tenex]

+1 . Lynch mob mentality at it's best . Usually involves insecurity .

"+1"? That's just sniping itself... and what does it involve?

 

[has530]

Now, you are in the realm of reality. I can appreciate that very much. LLL was the first real job for my friend Ken Moore, the writer of Zemax. Photo of my hard keys attached. I bought my first copy while Ken and Michelle were on the road between UofA and Livermore.

But since you have toned things down, I would be PLEASED to share the WHYS of my comments and think you would appreciate the logic. So many people, who don't know which end is up, often want to take me to task because they have looked through 3 or 4 binos and have dubbed themselves an expert—frustrating to one trying to raise the bar of understanding. "Mr. Bill" Bill Faatz of Cloudy Nights said he did optics there and he once shared a photo of a large container of Windex with me and stated it is what they used. I had no reason to doubt the fellow. This was before 1993 when J&J bought the company and the formula started changing. I also know optical engineer and founder of Tele Vue optics has used Windex since the mid-sixties. I was a dealer and we were closer before I designed and introduced the Baywatch (attached).

Further, I have been associated with the US government many years, and I know how they are easily swayed by bogus "facts." Many folks would be shocked by how "MIL Spec" is doctored and used—I just roll my eyes. If I said what I know, I would again be crucified. I also know that BF is a major home for those seeking an ego stroke by trying to have their opinions raised to fact. I can't go there. If they need that kind of adoration, they need to get an Irish Setter.

While this is at a good conclusion, I think you should be more vocal on BF. If for no other reason than to share some the heat I generate. Misery loves company.

So, if you will now kiss my ring, I'll let ya go. 😇

Cheers,

Bill

Very interesting thank you for sharing. Yes I will admit I was not even born when J&J bought it and started mucking with the formula. We typically use stuff that looks like the thorlabs kit posted by wllmspd with IPA. As for the fluid of choice it probably comes down to price, availability through suppliers with existing contracts, and using the least hazardous materials and streamlining our chem waste process. Of course it's entirely possible the dye or fragrance currently used make Windex a less suitable option. Maybe I'll buy an old dirty pair of binoculars and do an experiment! As for your last comment I try to be vocal when I feel I have something to add. But also as I am sure you know sometimes it is best to just stay out of things.