SatNav - What style of co-ordinates to use for a site guide? (1 Viewer)

[John Cantelo]

After many suggestions that I should do so, I'm contemplating adding GPS co-ordinates to my birding site guide to Cadiz Province. It's a daunting task as I'll probably have to copy & paste details of 500-600 locations. Unfortunately, I've never had a SatNav so, whilst I have some idea how to put in a destination when it's an address, I've only the foggiest notion of what's the best (or most widely used) method of feeding in the co-ordinates. Being somewhat old school in such matters, my first notion was to use longitude & latitude which has the advantage of using only two sets of six numbers (e.g. 51°20'45.41"N 0°53'21.10"E) but in terms of completing the task has the big disadvantage of being somewhat laborious for me to do via Google Earth (which seems the only way to do it unless someone knows a better). Google Maps digital degrees are easier for me to copy & paste but with two sets of 17 numbers (51.345938339631566, 0.8891813541144623) it must be more tiresome to type in & it's easier for users to make errors. What3Words has the same level of convenience for me as using digital degrees (///scratches.formal.graduated) and seems just as easy (or easier) to use as the first option. However, I'm not sure all SatNav systems support What3Words or whether people actually use the system (and do you always have to add ///)? Suggestions & help are welcome!

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

I use what 3 words on an iPhone successfully; haven’t tried either other system.

 

[Paul Chapman]

After many suggestions that I should do so, I'm contemplating adding GPS co-ordinates to my birding site guide to Cadiz Province. It's a daunting task as I'll probably have to copy & paste details of 500-600 locations. Unfortunately, I've never had a SatNav so, whilst I have some idea how to put in a destination when it's an address, I've only the foggiest notion of what's the best (or most widely used) method of feeding in the co-ordinates. Being somewhat old school in such matters, my first notion was to use longitude & latitude which has the advantage of using only two sets of six numbers (e.g. 51°20'45.41"N 0°53'21.10"E) but in terms of completing the task has the big disadvantage of being somewhat laborious for me to do via Google Earth (which seems the only way to do it unless someone knows a better). Google Maps digital degrees are easier for me to copy & paste but with two sets of 17 numbers (51.345938339631566, 0.8891813541144623) it must be more tiresome to type in & it's easier for users to make errors. What3Words has the same level of convenience for me as using digital degrees (///scratches.formal.graduated) and seems just as easy (or easier) to use as the first option. However, I'm not sure all SatNav systems support What3Words or whether people actually use the system (and do you always have to add ///)? Suggestions & help are welcome!

The second. Just cut & pasted it. Popped it into Google Maps & asked for directions. See you in 3 hours 35 mins.

That is the standard I expect to see & I see used internationally. It is how I look for output out of eBird & also Xeno Canto.

All the best

Paul

 

[dantheman]

After many suggestions that I should do so, I'm contemplating adding GPS co-ordinates to my birding site guide to Cadiz Province. It's a daunting task as I'll probably have to copy & paste details of 500-600 locations. Unfortunately, I've never had a SatNav so, whilst I have some idea how to put in a destination when it's an address, I've only the foggiest notion of what's the best (or most widely used) method of feeding in the co-ordinates. Being somewhat old school in such matters, my first notion was to use longitude & latitude which has the advantage of using only two sets of six numbers (e.g. 51°20'45.41"N 0°53'21.10"E) but in terms of completing the task has the big disadvantage of being somewhat laborious for me to do via Google Earth (which seems the only way to do it unless someone knows a better). Google Maps digital degrees are easier for me to copy & paste but with two sets of 17 numbers (51.345938339631566, 0.8891813541144623) it must be more tiresome to type in & it's easier for users to make errors. What3Words has the same level of convenience for me as using digital degrees (///scratches.formal.graduated) and seems just as easy (or easier) to use as the first option. However, I'm not sure all SatNav systems support What3Words or whether people actually use the system (and do you always have to add ///)? Suggestions & help are welcome!

See this recent thread -

Why don't we use What3words for bird sightings?

Apologies if this has already been covered but this seems a no brainer. It is so frustrating knowing you are in the general area when twitching but are unsure exactly where to go if there isn't anybody about. Would the news services be up for adding the info as well as the traditional...

www.birdforum.net

Everyone (?) has a smartphone these days. Two things to bear in mind are human error in typing long strings of numbers (at your end and the consumers end) and the time and effort you have to put in - words should be easier as long as bear in mind similar words etc as per that thread.

I would guess what3words would be the way to go?? ... good luck!

 

[Paul Chapman]

See this recent thread -

Why don't we use What3words for bird sightings?

Apologies if this has already been covered but this seems a no brainer. It is so frustrating knowing you are in the general area when twitching but are unsure exactly where to go if there isn't anybody about. Would the news services be up for adding the info as well as the traditional...

www.birdforum.net

Everyone (?) has a smartphone these days. Two things to bear in mind are human error in typing long strings of numbers (at your end and the consumers end) and the time and effort you have to put in - words should be easier as long as bear in mind similar words etc as er that thread.

I would guess what3words would be the way to go?? ... good luck!

Just not used... Reality is that the technological comparisons do not matter. It is the universal approach & compatibility with say eBird, Xeno Canto, etc.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I was brought up at school on D.M.S, reinforced once I started work, initially in surveying and it just comes naturally to me. Minutes and seconds of arc have a meaning in themselves as units. When I see decimal degrees my first instinct is to convert back to DMS (or D.M) by firstly multiplying the decimal part by 60 to get the minutes and then doing the same again with the result for the seconds. An endless string of decimals after the point in decimal degrees just leaves me cold, and it's much more open to transposition of the digits than the three pairs of numbers in the DMS system, only the first of which is ever greater than 59.

DMS also has the added function that a variation in minutes in coordinates for two relatively close locations can be used mentally to give you a rough distance you might need to travel, with one minute of arc of latitude being exactly one nautical mile (about 1.15 miles, or just under 2km - actually 1.85km) and, depending on how far you are above or below the equator on the globe, the same minute of arc is a bit less than 1nm. in longitude - near enough for a rough estimate in your head.

Another thing with decimal degrees is knowing where to stop that stream of digits before it becomes meaningless (anything beyond 4 or 5 places of decimals is a waste). With DMS, decimals of one second are also a waste of precision other than for proper surveying purposes. For identifying a location on a map the nearest second (.00028 deg) is more than enough. One second of arc of latitude is less than 30m, about 100 feet, plenty close enough for a birding location.

 

[opisska]

Decimal is far easier to use. There is no need to use 17 numbers - a degree is roughly 100 kms, so first decimal place is 10 km, second 1 km, third 100 m, fourth 10 m - are you ever gonna need to define a position better than within 10 meters? If yes, you can add a fifth decimal ... I really wonder what went into somebody's head at Google when they decided to give us coordinates with nanometer precision?! What3words is a proprietary closed system, dependent on online servers, that are outside of our control and can be closed on a whim. Don't use that for anything you wish to last longer than tomorrow.

 

[Mono]

If this is on the web or a pdf that folk are going to access online then I would put the sites in as Google Map or Open Street Map links.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Decimal is far easier to use. There is no need to use 17 numbers - a degree is roughly 100 kms, so first decimal place is 10 km, second 1 km, third 100 m, fourth 10 m - are you ever gonna need to define a position better than within 10 meters? If yes, you can add a fifth decimal ... I really wonder what went into somebody's head at Google when they decided to give us coordinates with nanometer precision?! What3words is a proprietary closed system, dependent on online servers, that are outside of our control and can be closed on a whim. Don't use that for anything you wish to last longer than tomorrow.

Good points. I may have to think again about their use.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Decimal my preference, no more than four digits after the point. But no big issue if DMS, easy for folk to convert if they don't like.

 

[John Cantelo]

The second. Just cut & pasted it. Popped it into Google Maps & asked for directions. See you in 3 hours 35 mins.

That is the standard I expect to see & I see used internationally. It is how I look for output out of eBird & also Xeno Canto.

All the best

Paul

I knew someone would check the co-ordinates! I'm afraid I won't be birding at Oare until tomorrow morning.

 

[John Cantelo]

Mono - If this is on the web or a pdf that folk are going to access online then I would put the sites in as Google Map or Open Street Map links.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Open Maps links. I think it offers no advantage over Google and is less familiar to most users.

Decimal is far easier to use. There is no need to use 17 numbers - a degree is roughly 100 kms, so first decimal place is 10 km, second 1 km, third 100 m, fourth 10 m - are you ever gonna need to define a position better than within 10 meters? If yes, you can add a fifth decimal ... I really wonder what went into somebody's head at Google when they decided to give us coordinates with nanometer precision?! What3words is a proprietary closed system, dependent on online servers, that are outside of our control and can be closed on a whim. Don't use that for anything you wish to last longer than tomorrow.

Thanks for that - I did wonder why Google co-ordinates seemed so unnecessarily long when latitude & longitude needed far fewer numbers to do the same job. Good point regarding What3Words. I'm edging towards using the decimal notation but it's tiresome to have to reduce the numbers down to a sensible length. It's a shame you can't toggle Google Maps to adjust the level of accuracy required.

 

[cafe birder]

While out at a local rewilding site the reptile people tried using what-three-words to record mat sites. As there were a whole group of us surveying insects at the same time 6 of us used our phones to get the 3 words for a mat as an experiment. Three separate groups of words appeared; twice each. One set referred to the correct area. One set to a village 4 miles away and the third set to Oxford, approx 100 miles distant. To be clear: four people got the wrong sites while 2 the correct one. We didn't try again.

 

[foresttwitcher]

Despite hearing good things about what-3-words I had similar issues to cafe birder in accurately providing locations of trees in a woodland requiring remedial safety work. When a contractor could not find the trees easily on being asked to quote for the work I met him on site and standing a few feet apart we both had different words for the same location. He seemed happy his app was good so I later deleted and reloaded mine and have not heard of the same issue recurring. But when I did the next annual survey for the same site I also used latitude/longitude (digital) and OS Grid Reference for each tree to be sure!