CTS 30x75 or CTS 85? (1 Viewer)

I have an Optolyth 30x75 drawtube scope that I love for its portability - more often than not I'll have it slung across my back on dog walks.

I'm thinking of 'upgrading' to the the Swarovski equivalent (CTS 30x75) but, whilst pondering that, I have also begun to consider the CTS 85 with a 20-60 eyepiece.

I was wondering if anyone (particularly owners of such scopes) may be able to offer any advice on either scope.

Many thanks!

Chitterne said:

I have an Optolyth 30x75 drawtube scope that I love for its portability - more often than not I'll have it slung across my back on dog walks.

I'm thinking of 'upgrading' to the the Swarovski equivalent (CTS 30x75) but, whilst pondering that, I have also begun to consider the CTS 85 with a 20-60 eyepiece.

I was wondering if anyone (particularly owners of such scopes) may be able to offer any advice on either scope.

Many thanks!

Click to expand...

Chitterne: Are you talking about upgrading to a CTC 30x75, or are you talking about the older model CT 75? I have both the Optolyth 30x75 and the Swaro CTC 30x75, and there is not much difference between them in viewing (Swaro a bit brighter, little better FOV), but I wouldn't consider it a big step up. The CTS 85 has always intrigued me, but its cost with the 20-60 eyepiece included puts it on par with the other Swaro scopes and I can't hand hold the higher powers like I can the 30x draw tubes I have now. The real advantage to the draw tubes are their compactness & use without a tripod--the higher powers on the CTS 85-zoom combo will require some kind of steadying mount that will add weight & bulk. I am surprised that draw tubes are not more popular in the States--biggest drawback I'm sure is their lack of waterproofness. Also consider the newer Optolyth draw tubes!

Karmantra,

Grateful for the feedback.

It's the CTC 30x75 I have in mind (always thought it was a 'CTS' until you pointed it out!). My Optolyth has superb resolution, but when I had the chance to look through a CTC 30x75 I was struck by the colour hue and brightness which seemed akin to my EL binos -and that's what made me think about changing.

My thoughts moved to the CTS 85 simply because it packs as small as the CTC; but appears to offer far greater versatility -albeit at almost twice the price! I'm assuming that digiscoping would be possible with the CTS 85 too.

My reservation on making the price jump to the CTS 85 is that it -as you've pointed out- puts me (pricewise) into STS 65HD territory ....where I'd be buying 'waterproofness' (with which, I assume, would come a certain piece of mind); but in a slightly (I think) less robust and packable package -and the jump from an 85mm objective to 65mm seems (to my brain at least) a jump in the wrong direction!

....and my judgement is further clouded because I'm not sure how important the 'waterproofness' angle is....for example, can a CTS (or CTC) be used in heavy rain without calamity? [Our local Swaro rep claims 'yes'].

Chitterna: You can improvise a 'rain bonnet' for those wet days using a draw tube scope--find a narrow width plastic bag with a bit bigger diameter than your scope, cut out the bottom of the bag and when the scope is extended, use 2 tight rubber bands around the bag-- one surrounding the armoring next to the extended section and the other rubber band right next to the eyepiece. Looks tacky, but works! I would not trust my scope's 'water-resistance' in a heavy rain! If you're considering the CTS 85, remember that if you are using the higher powers (40-60) you're going to need a monopod, tripod or some kind of device to eliminate 'shake' in the view.

I don't have the paperwork anymore so I'm not sure what my Swarovski 30 x 75 drawtube is called. I bought it 30 years ago in the U.K. and spent many happy weekends sea-watching it with on the Firth of Forth where it was subjected to all kinds of bad weather (cold, rain, spindrift) without internal fogging or other mishap though I usually put it away when conditions turned really miserable. For sea-watching I generally had it on a tripod. On other occasions, however, and this is where scopes of this type really come into their own, I generally used it hand-held, propped against a fence or tree or on the top of my car..

The scope was surprising good optically, the main defects being a ludicrously long "short focus"--about a hundred feet--and a pronounced yellow cast to the image (though one got used to the yellow after a while), and nowadays, after acquiring a modern prismatic scope, I seldom use it.

I've been curious about the modern Swarovski drawtubes with their close-focus capabilities and inter-changeable eyepieces, and would like very much to handle one someday. I imagine the optics are much improved (but as I've said, the old ones really weren't all that bad). Unfortunately, no one stocks them out where I live.

Anyway, I'll be interested in hearing what other people have to say about these currently unfashionable scopes.

karmantra, fugl,

Many thanks. Particularly pleased to read the feedback on 'roughish' coastal use without fogging! I have a tube made of a bit of old goretex permanently around my optolyth -it scrunches up around the body of the scope when it's closed. Works well, but I'd prefer not to have to use one!

I'm hoping to compare the CTC and CTS side by side in town today (I'll take my optolyth along too) ....but I really am having trouble with the CTS price vs waterproof alternatives: STS65HD or STS80 (non-HD)

...I'm now thinking (in this whirling spin of doubt!) that for roughly the same money, the non-HD STS80 (despite all the HD non-HD arguments)must be at least the equal of the CTS (?)

But there's just something so 'neat', packable and robust about the drawtubes! aaagh!

Chitterne: Let us know of your comparisions between the three draw tubes--I would be curious to know your 'test' results!

karmantra said:

Chitterne: Let us know of your comparisions between the three draw tubes--I would be curious to know your 'test' results!

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Hi all -

The CT-series collapsable spotting scopes were so infrequently sold here in the US that we have stopped making them a part of our regular catalog, but we can still special order them. In 9 years of working as the Swarovski Optik "birder" in the US, I only ever saw one fellow using one at a birding venue, and he might also have been an avid hunter, too.

This is not to say that the CTs were inferior to the solid-body scopes, it's that they were different, and the American consumer is reluctant ot try something different.

That said, when the roof prisms in the CTs were equipped with the Swarobright coating (after the introduction of the EL binocular) the problem with the "yellow" went away.

The scope sitting on a tripod can get soaking wet and no water will get inside UNLESS you collapse it down without making sure that it is perfectly dry first. If you transport water inside it by collapsing it while wet and thus fog the lenses, you CAN dry it out - open it up, and set it in a warm spot or under a warm light for a few hours. This will allow the water inside to evaporate, and now you can "pump" the scope closed and open a few times to clear out the moisture-laden air and replace it with dry air.

Depending on the amount of water that was transported inside the scope, this might take a few sessions to accomplish, but it's better than sending it in for service...

Clay Taylor
Swarovski Optik N.A.

Clay: Thanks for info on the 'drying process' regarding the Swaro draw tubes--I have never gotten my CTC 30x75 wet because of my fear of damage to the scope, but it sounds like the CTC is a little more 'robust' than I thought when it comes to moisture penetration. I'm also suprised that draw tubes are not more popular in the States, especially the 30x that can easily be hand-held. Before I forget Clay, thanks for sending on the resolution chart from Swarovski--it's nice to have a Swaro rep replying to the Forum!

Clay,

Thanks for your input; the simple 'fogging solution' is particularly good to know about; especially if you read down and see what I chose!

karmantra said:

Chitterne: Let us know of your comparisions between the three draw tubes--I would be curious to know your 'test' results!

Click to expand...

K,

My (thoroughly subjective!) views:

I was able to compare my Optolyth, CTC 30x75, CTS 85 with 20-60 and ATS 80HD with both 20-60 and 30x.

Bottom line upfront: I bought a CTC 30x75.

CTC 30x75: Similar central resolution to my optolyth, but sharper to the edges, noticeably brighter and -to my eye- better colour; also faster to focus -in the sense that it snapped into focus (where I find myself twiddling the focus back and forth a little on the Optolyth).

CTS 85: Very surprised to find I didn't like this at all (I had thought this the most promising candidate 'off paper'). Folded, it somehow felt far less 'elegant' than the CTC -noticeably heavier and clunky and far less daypackable (...or sling-on-your-back dog-walkable!). In use it was also unergonomic...focus is by turning the whole rear tube..ie the whole eyepiece rotates too. Well that's fine, until you want to change power setting...because all that happens is that you change focus again -unless you use a second hand to stop the tube rotating whilst you rotate the zoom ring. I discounted the CTS very quickly; it just didn't feel 'right'.

ATS80HD 20-60: Well, obviously less packable -but waterproof (I would have bought an STS if that had been my final choice -only an ATS was available to 'test'). upto x40 very impressive...but not (to my luddite eye) a wild leap ahead of the CTC...definitely a little brighter, but no major step change. Dialling up to x60 gave some dimming of the image...and that would annoy me -I'm not paying £1.5K for a zoom that is only 'optimal' for the first 66% of its range.

ATS80HD with 30x: Excellent. Noticeably brighter than the CTC. Resolution? I'm sure it must have been better (the marketing tells me so!); but no major resolution step-change to my eye.


Assessment:

My decision making reflected my requirement -rather along the lines of "What's the best scope in the World? ...the one you have with you"

The ATS w/ 30x was undoubtedly the best view. But would I carry it regularly? (and was it enough 'better' to justify its extra bulk and lack of 'neatness'?)The answer to both was 'no'.

Would I be happy with the CTC? My wife had (very kindly!) said to pretend the scopes were all the same price, and to buy the one I wanted most; well, the CTC gave me a 'wow' factor that the others didn't [I would expect a great big conventional scope (the ATS) to give an outstanding view -but I wouldn't carry it all the time; so, to find a simply awesome view in the neat robust little CTC package gives me 'wow'!] -and it'll be on all my dog walks!

Hi Chitterne,
I've been following this thread with interest as I am also a fan of draw-tube scopes and often carry an old Optolyth 30x75 for the very reasons you describe yourself. However, I do find that the eye relief is a little limited (I wear glasses) and wondered whether you've found that any of the Swarovski scopes are better in this respect. I've also wondered whether the Optolyth 30x80 is better and would welcome any comments.
Regards
Mike

Mike,

Slightly longer eye relief was also one of my reasons for thinking of a change (just forgot to mention it until you asked!).

Can't quantify it, but I think the CTC is a little more generous.

Matt

Chitterre: Great review! The CTC 30x75 is a great versatile scope! I am curious about your Opto 30x75--does it have the Ceralin coatings on the lenses? My Opto 30x75 does have it, and the lack of it may account for the brightness differences with your new Swaro CTC. My CTC is a bit brighter than my Opto, but not by a large amount.

Hi,
How do you guys hold your 30x draw scopes steady?
CJ

keithdrengen said:

Hi,
How do you guys hold your 30x draw scopes steady?
CJ

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Hi CJ
When hand-holding the scope I used to steady it by resting it on a horizontal surface--the top of a boulder, the back rest of a bench, a crotch in a tree, or whatever other suitable man-made or natural object was handy. For best results I used a bean bag (or back pack or wadded up sweater) between the scope and the steadying surface. If I had no other option, I propped it against a vertical surface but found it much harder to keep stable that way. When birding from a car, I used to rest it on a cushion on the top of the car (or on the hood) for a very steady view but whether this would be practical for you depends on your height & the size and shape of your car. Using the scope completely free-hand--no steadying surface at all--didn't work for me--there had to be something to steady it against to get a reasonable view. Hope this helps.

keithdrengen said:

Hi,
How do you guys hold your 30x draw scopes steady?
CJ

Click to expand...

Much as Fugl's response; but if there's nothing natural/man made to hand, I tend to go prone and rest the scope on whatever I have with me....I've also found that sitting on the ground with my back against something often allows me to rest the scope on a knee, or one leg folded across the other (à la Scottish Highland ghillie: http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/other/bfs/gk0026-20.htm -rather an extreme example, but the only one I could find online quickly!))

Chitterne: Let me know if you received my reply on the PM from you--I sent it, but I'm not sure if it got through! If not, resubmit.

Karmantra,

Yes I received it. Thanks; I really needed someone to idiot check me!

Took the thing in today; shop agreed with my (our!) assessment, they're replacing it ASAP. Outstanding service.

Matt