Leica 77 - Split personality? (1 Viewer)

A friend recently emailed me a sad photo (hopefully attached!) of his Leica 77 which fell in two after a mild knock. Another friend has had exactly the same problem. As I'm contemplating purchasing a Leica 77 (or 62 model) in the near future I'm wondering what is the frequency of this disasterous fault,

John

Send the pieces back - if it was a mild knock then the scope was flawed!

Ouch! Can't say I've ever come across that one before. I know at least 6 friends / birders (including myself) who use Leica's. One of them recently fell on his whilst it was attached to his manfrotto. Result no damage to scope but a busted tripod. I have however heard of several Kowas and at least one Nikon which have met a similar fate as your friends Leica.

Mark

John

The only problem I've had is the thread which joins the scope to the quick-release plate, which I've seen/heard happen to nearly all scopes. I couldn't recommend a 77 highly enough, especially to one already as proficient as yourself!

By the way, there's a thread on Cycle-listing going on at the moment, that may be of interest to you. I seem to remember you were an avid cylcle-lister for a time there.......

mikebirdart said:

John
..... especially to one already as proficient as yourself!

By the way, there's a thread on Cycle-listing going on at the moment, that may be of interest to you. I seem to remember you were an avid cylcle-lister for a time there.......

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An intriguing response. First a little of flattery (all the sweeter for being undeserved)! Then slightly scary revelation that you know I used to be keen on cycle birding; what's this long distance stalking? Or could it just be the result of having an unusual moniker?

What you might not know is that I do a little dabbling in bird art. Do you have a website for your artwork - I'd like to see some!

My friend is, of course, sending his scope back, but the real worry is that I know two people to whom this has happened, John

Certainly not what you want from a scope - I have a 77 and have had no problem with it (though have not given it too much physical punishment yet)!

I do however know someone who dropped theirs along with their Swaro bins down a fairly steep hill - all they could do was watch them bounce off... when retrived both the scope and the bins were in perfect working order, with just a couple of scuffs on the casing. The only lasting damage was to my friends nerves....

I'd say it was very bad luck in your friends case - I would highly recommend the Leica scopes - optically fantastic and a real pleasure to use.

I don't think snapping scopes are at all unusual, it could probably happen to any scope that is dropped and lands in a critical manner.

I was the proud owner of the then market leading Bausch & Lomb Discoverer, when it dropped off a car window mount onto tarmac, and broke itself and my heart in two!

They are easily repaired, and anyway, that is why we pay these excessively costly insurance premiums.

Clive

Break no. 3!

John Cantelo said:

A friend recently emailed me a sad photo (hopefully attached!) of his Leica 77 which fell in two after a mild knock. Another friend has had exactly the same problem. As I'm contemplating purchasing a Leica 77 (or 62 model) in the near future I'm wondering what is the frequency of this disasterous fault,

John

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My birding buddy had the very same misfortune with his Leica Televid 77 last year!
He bought his scope June 1998.

On a seawatch, autumn 2006, he noticed at some point he lost sharp views and however he tried, he couldn’t focus anymore. He removed the stay-on case and was shocked to find his scope BROKEN IN HALF, behind the tripod attachment ring. See the ATTACHED THUMBNAILS.
He’s a guy who always takes great care of his scope, and in the 8 years he has used it, he never dropped it or severely mistreated it. I can vouch for his trustworthyness, because we go out a lot together and he’s always careful with his equipment.

He was puzzled as to how this could have happened, but managed to shove the two pieces together again and put the soc back on. This way he could use the scope for the rest of the day; back at home, he put black duct tape on to hold the two halves together.

He wanted to send the scope to Leica as soon as possible, but due to ( happy ) family circumstances ( his first child had been born ) he didn’t find the time. July the 12th 2007 he brought the broken scope to a Leica dealer in his hometown, who sent it to the Leica importer for the Netherlands, and from there it was transferred to Leica Germany.
My friend felt confident it would be repaired under guarantee; when he bought the Televid he had been told it had a lifetime guarantee.
Not so.
The Leica dealer where he had brought his scope informed him the repair cost would be € 605.33 !! ( About 400 GBP )
The Leica dealer didn’t have a clue why Leica Germany refused to repair it under guarantee, so my friend got on the phone with the official Leica importer Transcontinenta in the Netherlands who phoned Leica Germany.
Leica Germany claimed my friend must have dropped his scope or forcefully bumped it, to get it damaged the way it was. They refused to repair it under guarantee, reasons being “strong traces of using” and “impact damage”.
Of course my friend denied this, convincing the Leica importer of his innocence. The scope body also showed haircracks long before the break incident happened ( see thumbnail ), that’s what made my friend believe the body was already weak. Transcontinenta began negociating with Leica Germany. It took my friend a lot of his time and many phonecalls, but Leica Germany remained unconvinced that the scope hadn’t been mistreated, and put all the blame on him. They found the haircracks in the scope body strange, but they stayed with their conclusion: impact damage. My friend was given the blunt choice to pay to get his scope back repaired, or leave it and get the two halves back.

The most amazing announcement by Leica Germany was, that it couldn’t have been a fabrication fault, because

QUOTE: “ THIS BROKEN SCOPE IS A UNIQUE CASE, IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE A LEICA TELEVID BREAKING IN HALF SPONTANEOUSLY “ UNQUOTE.

Surely, they must have remembered the two earlier cases that were similar to this one. So, what’s going on here? A severe lapse of memory by Leica? Or are the customers lying? I find both highly unlikely. Suggestions, anyone?

End of story, Leica insisting on the € 605.33 repair amount, my friend who couldn’t afford a new one, reluctantly paid and 11th October 2007 received his repaired Televid back. The housing had been renewed, but they had not replaced the original tripod attachment ring.

Greetings, Ronald

These are scary stories indeed - have happily owned my 77 for 8 years and managed to bounce it twice but it is still going strong. First I have ever seen or heard of a Leica failing in this manner and I bird with a fair few APO Televid owners.

Have just taken it out of its Skua case to check for possible signs of stress fracture but all appears OK.

On the thumbnail showing cracks around the area of the screws, surely this is the eyepiece mounting ring rather than the centre section of the scope body?

Corvus Corax said:

On the thumbnail showing cracks around the area of the screws, surely this is the eyepiece mounting ring rather than the centre section of the scope body?

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Yes, it is the eyepiece mounting ring.
Leica Germany could not explain this happening, but saw no connection with the breaking of the body.

Greetings, Ronald

Please do not take offence Ronald, but looking at the eyepiece ring I would agree with Leica that this scope may have taken a knock even though your friend says not.

To cause damage like that I would hazard a guess that the eyepiece has been struck and pushed in toward the body with sufficient force to push the retaining ring and screws inward and creating the cracks seen in the thumbnail.

Most likely would be a fall back where the eyepiece strikes an object first then the scope body striking along its side.

Just my thoughts obviously and I could easily be wide of the mark but I can see where Leica might think along similar lines.

Corvus Corax said:

Please do not take offence Ronald, but looking at the eyepiece ring I would agree with Leica that this scope may have taken a knock even though your friend says not.

To cause damage like that I would hazard a guess that the eyepiece has been struck and pushed in toward the body with sufficient force to push the retaining ring and screws inward and creating the cracks seen in the thumbnail.

Most likely would be a fall back where the eyepiece strikes an object first then the scope body striking along its side.

Just my thoughts obviously and I could easily be wide of the mark but I can see where Leica might think along similar lines.

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Hi Karl,

No offence taken, of course; in fact I can follow your reasoning and I agree that sufficient force might cause severe impact damage similar to what I described. However, to get a Televid breaking in two it must have been a real monster blow, and I just can't believe that has happened knowing the cautious nature of my friend.

The thread starter mentioned "a mild knock" so maybe it could be a cumulative effect; mild knocks are almost inevitable in normal birding situations, and over the years the last one could have been the proverbial straw that broke the donkey's back. ( Or was it a camel? ... Oh, never mind. )
Just a guess.

To be honest, I don't know what happened, but to my friend it was a bit more than a mild knock to learn that Leica's guarantee service was on the harsh side. I wonder what Swarovski would have said if this happened to one of their scopes? But then again, that's only speculation, because I've never read about Swarovski's breaking in half.
It's happened to Leica's three times; I hope my contribution will be the last one on this thread, sincerely I do, wouldn't want to see more tales of woe.

Take care of, and enjoy, your scope!

Greetings, Ronald

Ouch...I've never heard of this before this thread. It makes me want to be very careful with mine...:eek!:

John and all,

I'm no physicist mind you, however as I understand it, how any individual item survives a fall is not necessarily limited to the distance fallen, or even the perceived amount of force alone (be it a mild knock or hard), but more over how/where the item is impacted. For example, let's say a scope is locked hard on a tripod and it gets blown over by the wind landing on pavement. If the scope lands flat on its side the energy exerted at impact is absorbed across the entire length of the scope body effectively softening the blow and likely the subsequent damage. Take the same scenario and turn the scope 90 degrees so it "tomahawks" squarely into the pavement, then all of the energy enters at one small point and the subsequent shock felt will be much greater and likely something will have to give! The moral of the story, nothing is indestructible, however as a proud Leica employee (and someone accused of being admittedly rough on equipment as a user) I happily stand behind the product and am happy to say that Leica still maintains some of the highest build tolerence in the industry today. Of course, obviously I'm jaded but look around for yourself and see whose products have weathered the effects of time the most. I typically see at least one person still using old Leitz Trinovid binoculars at every show I attend and these things are usually close to 30 years old!

At any rate, back to the initial question. With full candor I will admit to seeing this type of break exactly one time in my 5 years with Leica which brings the grand total up to 4 known occurrences of this type of break. Given that there are some 1500 views on this thread that puts our sample at 0.2%. I'd bet if I posted a query about who knows someone struck by lightning we'd get a higher percentage, yet I still wouldn't be afraid to go outside! ;p

Good birding,

Jeff Bouton
Product Specialist - Birder/Naturalist Markets
Leica Sport Optics, USA

My Leica APO Televid 77 is getting loose at the joint and now there is a screw bouncing around inside that has scratched the inner surface of the telescope glass. Leica has a really good Sales Department in Terry Moore. He even lent me the scope for three months for a study in Costa Rica. I was able to buy the scope for less than half price after the study was over.BUT the repair department is horrendous. I have sent four items back to them so far.(Not all mine, but I got an account for equipment for a successful amazon lodge) Each time, the repair department drag their feet, never return calls, seem to not know how to use email, and have that New Jersey "Who you think your talking to!?" attitude. I have to send this scope back to have this flaw repaired and Im not looking forward to it. That being said, I also have returned a telscope back to Swarovski and they made a mistake, but fixed the scope for free and sent it back rush delivery once they released their mistake. Lieca, on the on the other hand is a nightmare. That being said I just got a new pair of 10X42 Ultravids. SWEET!