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Captive Breeding of Derbyan Parakeet - your thoughts on this option (1 Viewer)

china guy

A taff living in Sichuan
In the Sichuan thread there's been a lot of talk about Derbyan Parakeet - a species that seems to have gone through big recent population falls and range reduction.
Part of this trend surely comes from habitat loss - a trend that has been partly tackled through reforestation projects and protection of existing areas of forest. Today it seems that one of the biggest threats to this bird is trapping for the cage bird trade.
Even through taking these birds for pet trade is illegal - we know how difficult it is to enforce anti-poaching laws in the remote areas that still hold populations of this fantastic bird - we also know that its difficult to get authorities to regulate the traders who sell these birds in the bigger cities like Chengdu.
With this in mind we were thinking about the issues involved with captive breeding of this bird - not so much for re-stocking wild populations but more in a quest to breed for the cage-bird trade thus combating wild trapping and making it easier to supply bred bird rather than wild examples.
We also thought that breeding could take place in the areas where the bird was being collected - thus giving those who trapped a sustainable replacement income by using the very same species they were experienced in selling. These people already have experience in keeping the bird - so starting a project where these guys where taught how to construct aviaries and nest boxes where the birds could breed seems a logical progression to their skills. However whether the hunters would want to turn Parakeet farmers is a whole other question.
What we are looking for are views on this project - whether anyone can point out any big cons - or arguments against.
We've read on the web that this species has already been bred in captivity - at least one Australian breeder is taking about Derbyan Parakeet on his site.
This brings up one obvious concern - hybridization of caged Parakeets and the threat to wild stocks if hybrids or other Parakeet species escape into the Derbyan range. However I suppose the Derbyan lives in such a specialized habitat - the high altitude Tibetan plateau - that hybrids or other species would surely have a problem surviving the same conditions.

To execute this project we'd try and get one of the aid agencies that operate environmental projects on the Kham to organize it - but to do that its takes a proposal document with some good arguments of how this project can both conserve a species and become a sustainable industry in its own right.

With this in mind - does anyone here have any views on this subject

All the best
Sid
 
Sid

Interesting idea

I suggest you contact BirdLife International, who will have a good grasp of the issues.

Cheers
Mike
 
Thanks Mike,
for reminding me that getting a recognised and influential international ornithological/environmental would also be an important part of the game-plan.

As independent individuals with no accredited background it can be a big-problem to get the aid agencies to back us and then fund these kind of projects - a couple of years back we devised a plan to train bird-guides in an attempt to bolster the eco-tourist industry on the Kham. Our plans, were well prepared, included a teaching plan, a bilingual teacher who was familiar with the area and its birds, and was budgeted. These were met with great enthusiasm by an American based NGO that funding aid work on the Kham - but our participation floundered because we were independent of an NGO. A local NGO was then recruited by the US NGO with the aim of funding them to execute our project - but at the time there were problems out west - and as you can imagine, out here, things are never as simple as back home - and the whole project, with us eventually out of the picture, died a death of meetings, reports and then nothing!!!!!!!!

This time if we were to submit this project we'd far sooner present it through a western NGO like BirdLife International or indeed any reputable birding organisation that would prepared to back such a project (OBC also seems a possible idea) - not financially but with their name. Having a combination of an international birding NGO to back the project with their name and a western aid organisation, that's already working in the area, to fund it and provide the on-site foundations for a project sounds mighty complicated - but believe me if you want to get anything done in the areas where there is real need - Derbyan Parakeet habitat and range - then you have find some way of skipping around the quagmire that can easily build up in connection with these kind of projects.

Then comes our next problem - convincing these guys, like the folk at BirdInternational, about our credentials. Sometimes I've had problems getting through - especially since this plan isn't backed up by volumes of research that document habitat loss - it's more of brainwave that hit me a while back when thinking of the problems caused by trapping in China.

Does anybody have anybody reading this have any links to an 'influential" sympathetic ear - who may be interested in this project???

Thanks again Mike for the post - your idea has woken up some memory cells with regard to the best ways to go about doing this kind of stuff:t:
 
Thanks again guys for the links - it great to get info on folk who have experience in breeding these birds, and studying and protecting Parrot populations.

Unfortunately all that great work in establishing captive populations isn't, at the moment, doing much to halt our Sichuan trapping - and with this in mind today me Meggie and Jiujiu (a Chengdu birding friend also who posts on the Sichuan thread) did something truly loathsome - we visited one of the Chengdu Bird Markets.

The main market used to be slap bang in the central city area - but know it's been moved further out of sight, to a much harder to find location in the outer suburbs.
It took us a bit of driving and asking after directions, but we eventually found the market and our Parakeets - and a lot of other wild species.
Amid the masses of Hwamei, Plumbeous Water Redstart and even a few Himalayan Rubythroat there were in fact only 5 Parakeets for sale - but that could be explained by the price these birds were fetching - 3000RMB for birds that couldn't talk to 10000RMB for those that were trained to say many words.
In comparison Hwamei - the most popular of cage birds - could be bought for around 150 RMB/bird.
At those prices Derbyan Parakeet are most definitely the pet of the wealthy - and many are probably transported to other areas of China. I'm pretty sure if you want to buy one of these birds you are put in connection with dealers who keep these birds away from the ordinary bird markets.

As for the origins of the birds at the market - well of course nobody admits to trapping - but one of the items for sale at nearly every shop are mist nets - the main tool of the bird trapper. Although I'm pretty sure Derbyan Parakeet are also poached by raiding nests for fledglings.

The pictures from today's trip - are the Parakeet (the bird with the black-bill and green head is a young female), dealers, one of the many nets for sale and some of the pitiful Hwamei - who look like battery hens in their tiny cells.
 

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A quick surf of the net has shown that we need not look far for experience and expertise with regard to captive breeding of Derbyan Parakeet - they've been bred at Chengdu Zoo.
http://www.cnki.com.cn/Article/CJFDTOTAL-SCXS200001013.htm
This short article talks about how Derbyan Parakeet has been bred at Chengdu Zoo - where the chicks were reared over a 65 day period by zoo personnel - and how there was a 100% success rate.

However another Chinese site - which concentrates on pet birds - and encourages Derbyan Parakeet owners to try and breed their birds but tells of difficulties -
http://bird.intopet.com/15214.shtml
Here they talk about willing males - but having problems with females during the breeding season.
It looks like the breeding process with these birds can be complicated.

With this simple research we're starting to home in on the kind of specific questions we'll have to ask the experts on the feasibility of captive breeding - whether the complications in finding willing birds, setting up breeding aviaries (the Chinese site mentioned people who had had success with aviaries built into apartment balconies - but it seems a bit of hit and miss) and whether chances of success were likely to be better if the captive breeding was taking place within the natural range of the bird - where climatic conditions would surely encourage mating.
However the huge question is still - if the breeding is indeed a difficult, complicated process, why should the hunters bother, when they can skip passed that process and just harvest the birds wild?
I suppose it'll be money as ever that would be the motivator. At 3000RMB/bird in the market place (and a lot more if they can get those birds to talk) - there must be a few interested soles - and of course the rarity, if not total disappearance of the species from former range would surely come into play.

Also included are a couple of photos of Derbyan Parakeet habitat - taken during a trip to Yajiang - a Sichuan town up on eastern Tibetan Plateau. - way back in 2005 - the first time we got to see this bird.
One picture gives evidence of the logging operations that were about to completly denude this area of forest. Then in the late 90's came massive floods, with high death tolls, in central China - and growing appreciation of how Forest and other natural vegetation in the high mountains of Sichuan worked as an important water catchment tool to protect against rapid water runoff that, during periods of high precipitation, can result in devastating flooding on the plains of China.
Therefore Logging in Sichuan was abruptly stopped (as it was in the rest of China) - and the picture shows how felled trees, not allowed to be collected, still litter the valley bottom. In many places logging camps became forest protection stations - and vast areas were replanted. However over the last two years logging has again started in Sichuan - with the typical total cut method where everything is logged leaving bare ground in its place - instead of the method we better recognise from back home, periodic thinning to produce an ultimate crop of large timber trees trees.
The other picture shows that forests have started to regenerated - but these young forests mostly act as feeding areas, since the large trees where the Parakeet must breed - they are hole nesters - mainly survive on the upper ridges.
 

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Derbyan Parakeets, China and Chester Zoo

Hi Sid,

Will mail you privately with my contact details. I am Head of Field Programmes here at Chester Zoo and amongst our other field conservation programmes I am responsible for our China programme which has several elements - main one of which is our support for Sichuan Forestry Dept for reserve development in broadleaf forests in Sichuan - focal birds species there was the Sichuan Partridge but this has since developed into a much larger project. Check our website Chesterzoo www.chesterzoo.org and navigate through Conservation to Field Programmes then to China for details.

Idea of captive breeding to replace the wild take of birds in Sichuan certainly interesting. We have a small group of birds here at Chester Zoo which we have had and bred for many years - certainly since I started my work here as then Curator of Birds over 25 years ago. Compared with many other parrots these birds are incredibly hardy, relatively easy to breed and have advantage that they will breed in a colony - that is separate aviaries for each pair not essential. The challenges in China would be in ensuring that the wild take doesnt occur anyway and that economics of this really do work and can fit with local culture. Also as you noted in previous mail it would need a local organisation to implement any plan.

I have looked myself for projects on Derbyan Parakeet conservation and research that we might support. I was unable to find opportunities in areas we are currently working in Sichuan. There is a site in Yunnan with a small apparently isolated Derbyan Parakeet population in a village where WWF-China previously supporting construction and erection of artificial nest boxes and conservation education of schoolchildren. When I visited the village with Chinese and European colleagues in 2005 we found a small population of parakeets still there. Pride of local villagers there offers protection for these birds - perhaps that is something that could be emulated elsewhere?

Lets chat this through in person or on the phone and see what options there may be for supporting the conservation of Derbyan Parakeets in Sichuan.

With best wishes

Roger
 
Thanks so much Roger for contributing to the thread - it's great to get input from someone with such important links to Chinese and Sichuan wildlife conservation.

As for me and Derbyan Parakeet - well this thread is an act of brainstorming - in fact our idea about trying to get the Parakeet hunter to become Parakeet breeder was hatched not so long ago - just before we wrote the first thread post. So far this project is about recording that thinking process in these posts and building on that first embryo of an idea, seeing if we can mold it into a feasible blue-print for action. Its a bit like laying an idea egg, and then through the process of tending it, seeing if there's any possibility of it going to hatch!!!!
What we would really like - since me, Meggie and Juijui are acting as lay-folk independent of any NGO's - was a process where interested experts would participate in this project - which would allow it to evolve from an anonymous birdwatchers idea into something that could be bolstered by expert evaluation. If the idea grew in that manner then it would be easier to persuade an end partner - an NGO that operates in the region where Derbyan Prakeet is found - to take on the practical and financial chore of running the project.

Now that Chester Zoo have given an expert input, we're privy to a whole lot more relevant info -

From Email contact I've had with the Curator Of Birds at Chester - Andrew Owen - we've found out that a similar project of training and supporting bird trappers into becoming bird breeders has taken place on Java.
Now from Roger's contribution - we can see that captive breeding of Derbyan Parakeet is very possible and that the decline of this species in the wild has already made it a target for conservation projects.

To help take Meggie and me further up the Derbyan Parakeet learning curve - today we visited a captive breeding site - Chengdu Zoo.
Although we didn't get to talk to anyone involved with looking after the birds we got to see the largish aviary where they're held. Just to look at this set-up and the nest-boxes gives us more of an idea of what must be involved with starting a captive breeding colony -which made us think straight away that this may not be an enterprise for the individual hunter - but more a communal village exercise in setting up a larger breeding aviary.
However after looking at aviary size - I don't think construction would offer too many problems for plateau people who construct large timber framed houses. Nest boxes also look very simple - I suppose the biggest problem would be ensuring that the birds were given suitable protection when weather conditions turned harsh during the winter months.

By the way - in the Chengdu aviary they had a mix of three species - Derbyan, Alexandrine and Rose-ringed - so I suppose there was the chance that hybridization had occurred over the years.

Today's pix are the aviary and a line of the nest boxes - in Chengdu they're built of metal, and seem fairly new.

On a final note for this post - it was interesting to read about Rogers 2005 visit to the Yunnan village where Derbyan Parakeet conservation had been taking place. I first saw this bird way back in 1987 - in NW Yunnan - in an area that must have been very close to where Roger visited the Parakeet village. It would be interesting to know how well the Parakeet population of that village are still surviving the poaching threat.
 

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Not a dead parrot !

This thread is so heartening. In just one week, we have gone from ‘thoughts’ to public contact with experienced professionals- all due to the power of the internet. This where and how it can be used beneficially.

Were such a project to come to fruition in, say, rural Sichuan, it would reflect well on all those who read and contribute to these fora- and BirdForum generally, as such a wholesome ‘tool’ (usually!).

Good luck to all.
 
Thanks for those encouraging words John - just we can communicate the predicament of this species and share ideas and feelings with such speed over such vast distances advertises everybody's potential new power for encouraging the positive within this new digital age.

Another power given to us by the digital media is the way we can now become arm-chair researchers - finding info doesn't have to be an academic labour of sifting through libraries of paper - but now so much is available at arms-length reach over the net.
Proof of the pudding lie with those links from Roger at Chester Zoo that have led us to a village in Southern Yunnan - Mangba - and a Derbyan Parakeet project that was supported by the WWF.

Here's a WWF press release I found this morning -
Derbyan Parakeets benefit from grassroots conservation group
September 10, 2002

Once a rare sight, the near-threatened Derbyan Parakeet has made a comeback. Now, with the help of a WWF project, the grassroots organization responsible is getting an extra boost to help spread their success.

Beijing - Known for the beautiful shades of violet on their head and breast, and the deep green to electric cobalt blue covering the rest of their body, the Derbyan Parakeet is an incredibly striking bird. Native to southwest China and adjacent Southeast Asia, locals consider the Derbyan Parakeet a sacred bird that can provide warning of looming natural disasters. But despite their elevated status, the magnificent bird has become a globally near-threatened species.

In the village of Mangba, near China’s border with Laos in southern Yunnan Province, a group of about 100 Derbyan Parakeets have survived thanks to a grassroots conservation group formed by local Bulang farmers, members of one of China’s smallest ethnic groups.

In 1999, the farmers established a Parrot Conservation Association and developed local regulations to promote parrot conservation. Nowadays, illegal trapping of the parakeet for the domestic pet trade - the birds’ biggest threat and responsible for eradicating entire populations of the parakeet in some areas – has been markedly reduced and the parrot population is on the rise.

However, though similar to Mangba in terms of vegetation and climate, the sight and sound of Derbyan parakeets are still a rare sight in neighboring villages, where potential threats still exist. To address this, the Parrot Conservation Association, with support from WWF’s Conservation Small Grants Fund, is now aiming to spread the idea of ‘people living in harmony with nature’ to villagers and primary school students through a series of environmental education games and workshops.

One of the most popular games – amongst both kids and villagers – is the ‘pyramid’ game. In the game, players use building blocks representing different species to form a pyramid, representing the ecosystem. Players then take turns to remove the building blocks. As they remove the ‘species,’ the pyramid becomes less and less stable, and finally collapses. Another popular activity organized as part of the environmental education project was a Derbyan Parakeet drawing contest. A set of postcards has now been printed from the children’s drawings.

Yaqiong Chen, a leader of the project, is heartened by the strong response to the activities, “Nearly all the villagers, no matter how busy, come out and participate in the activities. They’re eager to learn about the environment, and are very enthusiastic about treating birds and all creatures well.”

In addition to environmental education, WWF project staff and partners have helped villagers devise and install artificial nesting boxes for the parakeets, after studies found that the reproduction of parrots is limited by the lack of adequate nest sites. The parakeets have now not only begun to live in them, but have also even begun to breed in them, generating excitement amongst the villagers to both build more nests and to further work toward the conservation of the bird.

Villagers have now formed a monitoring and patrolling team, looking out for the well-being of not only the Derbyan Parakeet but other creatures as well.

WWF’s Conservation Small Grants Fund focuses on lesser-known plants and animals that are either on the IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources) Red List for China, or have been officially designated 1st or 2nd Category Protected Species by the Chinese government.

Resources available for research are currently almost all focused on a few 'popular' species, such as the Tiger and Yangtze River dolphin, while lesser-known species and their habitats may decline or even disappear with little fanfare. The dearth of scientific data on these endangered species makes it difficult for the government to develop effective conservation policies. Yet these species are equally important in terms of their overall function within an ecosystem.

Financial support for a portion of the Small Grants Fund has been provided by Novozymes, Copenhagen, Denmark.

For further information:

Wei Juan, Species Program Associate, WWF China Programme. Tel: 86-10- 8563-6538 ext. 221. Fax: 86-10- 8561-5731. Email: [email protected] , website: www.wwfchina.org

We'd love to find out more about this project - we believe that the HK birdwatching Society were also involved - but the info dries out on how this project is going after the initial couple of years. When I met Bjorn Anderson in 2008 he talked about a village in Yunnan that protected Derbyan Parakeets - and he has pictures of the Bird, dated 2008, on OBC images - but this is where the trail runs out.
We contacted WWF (that Jwei Email address doesn't seem to work - so we mailed through the main WWF China addy) - we'd really like to get some current info on the state of the Mangba project and what have been the effects with regard to the Parakeet collecting trade in the area - on a long term-basis do nest boxes encourage larger population or more Parakeet collection - and even if collection grows, if it's of a sustainable level, can the population and local range still grow?

By the way I always assumed that the Parakeet protection village was up in NW Yunnan - it came as a bit of a surprise to find it was close to the Lao Border in the south!!!!
 
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Very interesting! I wonder how significant it is that this was a particular minority group. Ethnographically, some groups might be more oriented (due to local values) to preserve birds (or specifically meaningful birds). However, in some ways I guess this helping people take pride in their natural fauna resources has been done in many places (including developed countries).

At a total guess, I wonder if the project funding/oversight ran out and the status is unclear (i.e. someone would have to go and see what's actually been self-sustaining) - you want to go to southern Yunnan anyway, right ;) Well, anyway, hopefully someone will come up with evidence that I'm wrong on that.
 
Wish we had time to get down to southern Yunnan - my freedom runs out in 4 days time -and then it's a series of commitments that take us into September !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Very interesting! I wonder how significant it is that this was a particular minority group. Ethnographically, some groups might be more oriented (due to local values) to preserve birds (or specifically meaningful birds). However, in some ways I guess this helping people take pride in their natural fauna resources has been done in many places (including developed countries).

At a total guess, I wonder if the project funding/oversight ran out and the status is unclear (i.e. someone would have to go and see what's actually been self-sustaining) - you want to go to southern Yunnan anyway, right Well, anyway, hopefully someone will come up with evidence that I'm wrong on that.

Well it's almost day zero before we pull out of town and start on our journeys - but we'll keep our minds on the Parakeet idea - and hopefully, since we'll be passing the edges of Derbyan Parakeet country we might even get a sighting of this bird.

In reference to some of Gretchen's points - yes it does seem easier to get certain ethnic groups in China to protect wildlife. Tibetans have long history of animal protection that is connected to religious belief - a shame there are no populations of Parakeets that are getting protection from the monasteries (well at least none we know of).
As for the state of the Mangba project - well Bjorn Anderson sent me a mail to say all looked very fine in 2008 - he saw no signs of trapping or trading - so lets hope all is still well.
And some pics to sign-off - a couple of pics of the kind of people who would need to be involved in any Parakeet conservation project. The guys in the picture are from a small village just outside Tagong, which is located on the Kham (the Eastern Tibetan Plateau - where the Parakeet still hangs on in localised populations) - this village group, with the aid of Winrock International had organised itself to produce craft ware for the local tourist markets - so these guys can certainly work together on focused project. That's Meggie checking out their stuff - we had a great day looking at there work.
And a final pic of the Derbyan Parakeet - here they are from a visit into Tibet we made some years back - you can see three males a young bird and the highest bird is a black-billed female - shame we can't see them too often like that in Sichuan!!!!
 

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I got some new information on our parakeet:
According to local farmers near Danba these birds were quite common about 20 to 30 years ago. In Summer they used to come in big flocks to the walnut trees near the villages (between 1200 and 2500 masl) to have a decent walnut meal.
The recent years they were seen occasionally and only in small numbers but still coming to the walnuts...
 
Although off on our spring/summer projects we're still keeping our brains ticking over with regard to the Parakeet - and yesterday we received more inspiration when we got a PM from another Birdforum member living on Jersey, who has connections with both Jersey zoo and the fight to save a highly threatened Chinese species; Jakowski's Bunting. His brain storm was to investigate getting help in protecting Derbyan Parakeet from the monks and monasteries in the Parakeets breeding area. And almost by magic, the same night, came a TV broadcast about a ornithologist Tibetan monk - living in Qinghai Province - who has taken up the work of protecting Tibetan Bunting (also a brilliant double coincidence, because we have no TV at home, but at the moment are living in a hotel).
Here's some information I've found on the net about this guy and his project -
Tashi Zumpo, a 39-year-old lama monk from Guolo Prefecture of Qinghai Province on the Qinghai-Tibetan plateau, probably never imagined that his love for the rare birds in his hometown would be made public nationwide.
Tashi, now a doctor on Tibetan Buddhism in the Palyul Monastery's subsidiary temple, told Xinhua that he fell in love with birds 26 years ago when his impoverished parents sent him to the temple to become a lama.
"I was homesick and I felt so happy watching the birds," Tashi said, with a simple smile on his tanned face.
Since then, he has recorded the habits of nearly 400 species of birds, such as when and where to make nests or breed, by drawing pictures or jotting down notes.
He is also a loyal guardian to emberiza koslowi, a rarely seen species of bunting restricted to the eastern part of the Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau.
In 2005, Tashi first saw an emberiza koslowi in the mountain behind his temple.
Since then, with funding from the EU-China Biodiversity Program, a project with EU funding in China for the country's protection of biodiversity, Tashi was able to protect the rare buntings by compensating the villagers in his hometown to share pasture with the birds in their breeding seasons.
In 2007, Tashi founded his own association with help from Shanshui Conservation Center, an NGO on nature protection. The association's 63 members are all volunteers, mostly locals, who share a passion for the protection of wildlife.
Derbyan Parakeet could also do with a Tashi Zhumpo - somebody who can command local respect and influence a local community to act in a conservation minded manner.
 
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Don't have much to add, but want to continue to cheer you on. Here's hoping that there will be links made with those close on the ground who already have an interest in these parakeets or some close ally. It seems already that there are bits and pieces coming together in many different ways!
 
Hi Gretchen - bits and pieces are slowly coming together - we've again been in contact with the experts and are building more definite ideas of what are feasible starts to this project.

One of our big question was regarding the present status of the Mangba Birds - or links to the site ended with Bjorn Anderson and his visit during 2008. But this evening - hey presto - Meggie found a piece from Tibetan photographer who runs a tourist company. After his recent visit he reports that the birds are doing well - there are 80 birds in the area - and although trapping takes place in the general area with a a Parakeet fetching 2000RMB - around Mangba the local protection still works well.

Hopefully he'll be inspired to help the protection of this bird within the Tibetan areas.

A link to his article here (wonderful pics)
http://photo.21hor.com/viewthread.php?tid=67306&extra=page%3D1

On the subject of collecting materials to donate to monasteries and schools - does anyone have good source for ordering the Chinese version of MacK China bird fieldguide.
We've got our Chinese copies sent by a friend from Shanghai (Chinese version is only 75RMB) - but would love to find an online source. Anybody have any links?????????????
 
I thought the book would still be available at "taobao.com" or "dangdangwang.com" online bookstore.

I have a copy left and for sure will take it to Danba in a few days. I hope there I can find a villager of "good reputation" to "donate" this book to. If such a person can be convinced by holding a MacKinnon field guide to protect birds instead of harvesting them, the idea of conservation will have a good chance to spread out slowly in this area.

I am planning to spend a few days around Danba and to explore two different valleys in order to find out about the recent status of population, habitat conditions as well as the degree of bird catching.

Also, it would be interesting to find out, whether the villagers potentially might agree to give up bird catching and go into breeding instead...

r
 
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