Zen Ray ED3, Pentax, ZRS Summit (1 Viewer)

Hello!

I posted for advice in a previous thread, but I will create a new one here since I have become familiar with the Zen Ray binoculars!

I am going on two field trips: one will be tropical and one winter/cold. So I need a fog/rain proof and sturdy pair of binoculars. I will be doing wild-life research.

Until now I have been considering the Eagle Ranger, but because of its small FOV, I narrowed it down to three other choices (thanks to Chosun):

8x43 Zen Ray ED3, 8x42 ZRS HD Summit, and the 8x42 Pentax DCF CS
(all three are 8x4- as that is the size I was recommended by the program).

Now, I am currently leaning towards the Zen Ray ED3 as it simply appears to have it all! The price is little over my budget (I am a student so less than $300) but I feel it might be worth it...

However, I am worried that it could be too heavy to carry around. I will be doing quite some hiking as well. What are your opinions on this?
So that leads me to the ZRS HD Summit, which seems to be a smaller version.. But I have read somewhere that it has some color bias? How does it rank with the ED3?

The Pentax DCF CS appears to be an all-round good choice (and is lightweight). However, I must admit the Zen Ray is still catching my attention the most.

Any opinions on binocular weight and hiking? My professor uses a pair of 8x42 Swarovski (not sure which) and she said I should look for something along those lines in weight, etc.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

sinaeh said:

Hello!

I posted for advice in a previous thread, but I will create a new one here since I have become familiar with the Zen Ray binoculars!

I am going on two field trips: one will be tropical and one winter/cold. So I need a fog/rain proof and sturdy pair of binoculars. I will be doing wild-life research.

Until now I have been considering the Eagle Ranger, but because of its small FOV, I narrowed it down to three other choices (thanks to Chosun):

8x43 Zen Ray ED3, 8x42 ZRS HD Summit, and the 8x42 Pentax DCF CS
(all three are 8x4- as that is the size I was recommended by the program).

Now, I am currently leaning towards the Zen Ray ED3 as it simply appears to have it all! The price is little over my budget (I am a student so less than $300) but I feel it might be worth it...

However, I am worried that it could be too heavy to carry around. I will be doing quite some hiking as well. What are your opinions on this?
So that leads me to the ZRS HD Summit, which seems to be a smaller version.. But I have read somewhere that it has some color bias? How does it rank with the ED3?

The Pentax DCF CS appears to be an all-round good choice (and is lightweight). However, I must admit the Zen Ray is still catching my attention the most.

Any opinions on binocular weight and hiking? My professor uses a pair of 8x42 Swarovski (not sure which) and she said I should look for something along those lines in weight, etc.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

See this "endurance" ranking of binoculars just put out by Allbinos. For what it is worth, I think they mean durability.

The binoculars ranked 3 and 9 are closest to your price range. Zen Ray has a low ranking. Your particular Pentax was not tested nor was the Ranger.

http://www.allbinos.com/18.23-binoc...x42_binoculars_Final_results_and_summary.html

Bob

Other than the excessive pincushion distortion, I love my ED2 8X43. I haven't dropped mine though, so I can't comment on that.

Bruce

sinaeh said:

Now, I am currently leaning towards the Zen Ray ED3 as it simply appears to have it all! The price is little over my budget (I am a student so less than $300) but I feel it might be worth it...

Click to expand...

That Zen-Ray tested by allbino's was the previous model = ED2.

The ED3 offered an upgrade in optics and mechanics - Frank and the guys who went through the nitty gritty would be best placed to summarize the pertinent changes. Sinaeh, have you decided 7x43, or 8x43 yet? http://www.allbinos.com/1481-Zen-Ray_Optics_ED3_7x43-binoculars_specifications.html

Normal jostling and bumping of the bin is one thing - but dropping onto a hardish surface from a height onto the most vulnerable exposed part (extended eyecups) is not particularly representative, or helpful I feel. Though should the unfortunate happen, I suppose it gives an idea of the repair bill. I think there is likely much variation, and unpredictability in the allbino's drop tests though, so don't place too much stock in the results - the bins are primarily for seeing.

The question of size /weight ..... x32's v's x42's will always come up. However I think it's useful to remember the primary objective - to see stuff. These will be a professional tool remember, so I would say go with the 8x42's, which will allow easier /quicker eye placement, brighter low light viewing (including into shadows under canopy cover), etc. I would say just lump the weight without comprimise - by all means cut your toothbrush in half, but stick with the full size bins. :t:

Which one? well, that's for you to decide?

The ED3 will certainly be brighter, wider Fov, and with much less CA (chromatic abberations), and though heavier, really feel pretty light in the hand (much less than the published weight). Being open bridge design, they provide an ergonomically satisfying grip to a range of user's hands (don't drop them though ..... well - you wouldn't drop a Swaro either, would you? - and they're open bridge design too! ;-P The colour cast is neutral, and shows greens really well - though if you see a small flash of blue or red in the shrubbery - that stands out really well too - you won't miss it. Forget all this nonsense about "cool" colour representation - particularly by people who have never looked through one.

The ZRS, and Pentax are closed bridge designs, and so will be a different feel, and both without ED glass too. For me, I see lots of CA, so I know which one of the 3 I'd pick. You'll have to weigh up which features are of most importance to you - ideally you'll be able to get your hands on all 3 to compare and trial - one of them may just "fit" better for you (grip, focus feel, eyecup fit) - this can't be stressed enough. Good luck!


Chosun :gh:

I have owned the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 and it truly has amazing optics for the money. But I do think it will probably be too big and heavy for your intended use. You can mitigate the weight issue by using a harness system, but IMO you don't need something quite so large for your intended uses.

By all accounts the ZRS is very close optically to the ED series models, and I would definitely consider that for its more compact size and weight. Since you want them to be rugged I would also look at the Vortex Diamondback which is pretty well regarded for its construction quality. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about minor differences in color bias, every binocular has a slightly different color rendition and in actual use it's not something that really matters too much.

Since you want something that will be very rugged under field conditions I might also recommend you think about getting a used model, something that was higher end a few years ago but now is in your price range. While I really enjoy the optics of many of the inexpensive "china bins" out there, they definitely are not as robust as more expensive optics. For example, two models I have purchased used that would be around your budget range are the Alpen Rainier 8x32 and the Minox BD BR 8x32. Both of these are built like little tanks and I would have much more confidence with them in the field than a lot of inexpensive modern bins.

By scoping the used / refurb / open box market you can find a nice deal on something a little more rugged for your budget. Here's a couple of options I found that should be very robust:

Kahles 8x32 demo for $349: http://www.samplelist.com/Kahles-8x32-Binoculars-DEMO-B-P63141.aspx

Pentax 8x32 DCF SP for $319: http://www.samplelist.com/Pentax-8x32-DCF-SP-Binocular-DEMO-B-P54719.aspx

Meopta MeoPro 8x42 for $299: http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/meopta.pl?page=meopta523470

eitanaltman said:

I have owned the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 and it truly has amazing optics for the money. But I do think it will probably be too big and heavy for your intended use. You can mitigate the weight issue by using a harness system, but IMO you don't need something quite so large for your intended uses.

By all accounts the ZRS is very close optically to the ED series models, and I would definitely consider that for its more compact size and weight. Since you want them to be rugged I would also look at the Vortex Diamondback which is pretty well regarded for its construction quality. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about minor differences in color bias, every binocular has a slightly different color rendition and in actual use it's not something that really matters too much.

Since you want something that will be very rugged under field conditions I might also recommend you think about getting a used model, something that was higher end a few years ago but now is in your price range. While I really enjoy the optics of many of the inexpensive "china bins" out there, they definitely are not as robust as more expensive optics. For example, two models I have purchased used that would be around your budget range are the Alpen Rainier 8x32 and the Minox BD BR 8x32. Both of these are built like little tanks and I would have much more confidence with them in the field than a lot of inexpensive modern bins.

By scoping the used / refurb / open box market you can find a nice deal on something a little more rugged for your budget. Here's a couple of options I found that should be very robust:

Kahles 8x32 demo for $349: http://www.samplelist.com/Kahles-8x32-Binoculars-DEMO-B-P63141.aspx

Pentax 8x32 DCF SP for $319: http://www.samplelist.com/Pentax-8x32-DCF-SP-Binocular-DEMO-B-P54719.aspx

Meopta MeoPro 8x42 for $299: http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/meopta.pl?page=meopta523470

Click to expand...

I have the Kahles 8 x 32 and it is an excellent binocular and certainly meets the toughness criteria. This is an excellent price. As a demo it should still be covered by it's 11 year warranty. The picture shows it with the optional winged eye cups that come with the binocular. The regular ones are shown below it. You peel them off to change them. They work well. Allbinos has a good report on them.

Bob

You could also buy Dennis' Vortex Stokes DLS that he is already flipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortex-Optics-Stokes-DLS-8x42-Binocular-/330914697638

Very robust build, wide FOV, made in Japan, should be bright and sharp, and covered by Vortex's lifetime unconditional warranty.

eitanaltman said:

You could also buy Dennis' Vortex Stokes DLS that he is already flipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortex-Optics-Stokes-DLS-8x42-Binocular-/330914697638

Very robust build, wide FOV, made in Japan, should be bright and sharp, and covered by Vortex's lifetime unconditional warranty.

Click to expand...

Eiten:

I am wondering why you posted this on the Zenray subforum.

The Vortex Stokes DLS line seems to be well regarded, and does it compare
to the original Vortex Razor or the Viper? They are both Japanese made.

I did a search, it has di-electric coatings, and I believe Vortex, will continue
to warranty these.

Jerry

It's the Zen-Ray subforum but the OP was asking a broader question about binocular recommendations to fit his needs. I think the scope of this thread allows for non Zen-Ray model suggestions.

I honestly haven't tried the Stokes DLS personally so I can't comment on the optics compared to the Razor or Viper, but all of the reviews of the Stokes are very positive. I have no doubt it would represent a nice value at less than $300 used if the OP is looking for something that is more durable than the sub $300 options that he can buy new (e.g. China bins).

I would be surprised if the Stokes DLS has dielectric coatings, it came out in ~2007 or so right? I would expect them to have had a high quality silver prism coating.

eitanaltman said:

It's the Zen-Ray subforum but the OP was asking a broader question about binocular recommendations to fit his needs. I think the scope of this thread allows for non Zen-Ray model suggestions.

I honestly haven't tried the Stokes DLS personally so I can't comment on the optics compared to the Razor or Viper, but all of the reviews of the Stokes are very positive. I have no doubt it would represent a nice value at less than $300 used if the OP is looking for something that is more durable than the sub $300 options that he can buy new (e.g. China bins).

I would be surprised if the Stokes DLS has dielectric coatings, it came out in ~2007 or so right? I would expect them to have had a high quality silver prism coating.

Click to expand...

The search I found on one of the big sellers sites, describes the prism coatings
of the Stokes DLS as:
"High reflectance, 64 layer mirror coated Bak4", and I suppose that means
di-electric.

Both the original Vortex Viper and the Razor are well regarded so the Stokes
must be very close to one of them. Trying to find original specs. on some of these
takes a little work. If it is a Razor clone, it may be a very good value.

Edit:
The Stokes would be closer to the Viper, after doing some more searching, with a bit wider view.
Some reviews of the original Razor and Viper in this size, gave the nod to the Viper.
The Razor was an open frame model, the Viper in the regular frame style.


Jerry

Hello everyone!

Haha! I laughed when I saw Dennis' ebay offer. I have been reading a lot of threads in here and he seems to pop up quite a bit ;-) the posts are very entertaining to say the least....

Anyway, thank you for all the advice.

I love the ZR model, but I am afraid it might be too heavy/big for my needs. Another thing is that I have "small hands" and wanted something that would fit well. I am a female But for the future, it will be on top of my list of binoculars to get!

I called Eagle Optics and they recommended the Minox BL 8x42. I am not sure if they did that because it's on sale, but I must admit it seems to be what I need. So, I ordered a pair..
I also ordered a Meopta Meopro that one of you recommended.. That way I have two models to compare to.

I ALMOST ordered a swarovski demo for $770 (CL Companion) but I convinced myself that it is WAY over my budget! I would never forgive myself if I did that. Maybe some day....

And if none of them seems right, I found a few other models in the camera store and REI nearby. So, that's a third option I have.

Again, thank you for all the advice - and I'll let you know what I choose!

Sinaeh

Sinaeh, hope EO bettered this price for the Minox BL 8x42 http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=minoxgermanbl8x42

Looks to be light on Fov as well as weight. You'll have to see how you go with that.

I think the Pentax, or Zen-Ray ZRS HD, both with 131m Fov would be more to my taste Fov-wise - but that's just me, and my preferences.
Good luck!

Let us know how you go.



Chosun :gh: