Zen-Ray Ed (1) (1 Viewer)

jdavis37 · Apr 26, 2014

Quick question regarding the nwer versions of these. I bought a pair of the 10x42 ED's a few years ago and overall am mostly pleased. I still get some odd blackouts but the biggest issue I have with them is the very slow focusaing dial. This makes me wonder if part of the design or if my pair needs help!

I am thinking of buying a second pair and am giving thought to (a) ED3, (b) Prime and (c) Leupold McKinley, newest version.

My ED's ( first model) take approximately 3 turns (rotations) of focus dial to go from closest focus to infinity. This is very approximate as I did not mark the dial. I had read some were taking (newer models) 1.5 rotations.

I miss birds because of the slow focus and if I buy another pair I would greatly appreciate MUCH faster focus going from one end of focus spectrum to the other. Curious if the first batch of ED's were a slow focuser and how the subsequent models are doing.

Optically I am ok with the ED though of course better is always better! I cannot justify going past $600 USD for a pair of binos and so am stopping the quest there. Less is also ok! But at this point I would prefer glasses that don't black out as often (something am sure I will need to try for my own face/eyes) but more importantly I want a very fast focuser!

Thx in advance! John

BruceH · Apr 26, 2014

John,

Focus rotation travel: I just checked the ED3 10X43 and 8X43. Travel from close focus to infinity is about 330 degrees. The 8X may be just a little less than the 10X, but hopefully this will give you the general information that you are after. That is quite a bit less travel than your original ED, but I do not consider it to be to fast. The rotation direction going from close focus to infinity is clockwise.

I also checked a 7X36 ED2, which is closer to your original ED. Rotation from close to infinity is also clockwise and travel is somewhere around 400 degrees.

The focus mechanism on the ED2 is smoother, but has a little bit more free play when switching rotation direction.

Blackouts: I view without my eye glasses and find eye placement somewhat more difficult with my Zen-Ray binoculars than I do some of the other models, such as Nikon. It is necessary for me to place them higher up under my eyebrows in order to avoid blackouts. I believe this is because Zen-Ray appears to have a shorter eyecup length in relation to the eye relief than some of the other brands. Zen-Ray is not alone. I have the same issue, but more so with some of the new Zeiss Conquest models I tried. I can get the Zen-Rays to work for me, but it would be better if the eye cups extended out a little bit more. This is one of those items that you will have to try for yourself.

jdavis37 · Apr 26, 2014

Bruce,

Thanks. I do most of my bird "watching" from behind 700mm of camera lens but bought the ZR ED's a few years back for quick viewing and a much lighter method of viewing!

When they arrived I noticed the focus speed was very slow (as if driving on ice.. turn focus wheel a lot and focus travel is slight). It could be mine are simply defective and need a return trip to be checked. I saw 2 smaller birds flyign about in the yard yesterday and due to their quickness I was never able to change focus distance to see what they were.

If the travel from close to infinity were only 3/4 turn of the focus wheel i'd be ecstatic! Mine has to be turned somewhere around 3 times to get from close to infinity.. it takes forever!

I'll visit a nearby Dicks store to see what they carry. Just not that many places are stocking but perhaps I need to search a little harder! I live near Charlotte NC and given population there should be somewhere that has something.

On black outs your description is similar to how I use them. I would prefer an easier to use set of binoculars though the black out part is certainly workable. But it sounds like the ED3s and I am guessing Primes will do better regarding focus speed than my current set though I am not locked into ZR... Leupold, Hawke, etc... the $450 to $600 market. While glass performance is important (things like field curvature, CA and sweet spot) I am also very focused (pun intended) on focus speed. Thx for the feedback! John

BruceH said:
John,

Focus rotation travel: I just checked the ED3 10X43 and 8X43. Travel from close focus to infinity is about 330 degrees. The 8X may be just a little less than the 10X, but hopefully this will give you the general information that you are after. That is quite a bit less travel than your original ED, but I do not consider it to be to fast. The rotation direction going from close focus to infinity is clockwise.

I also checked a 7X36 ED2, which is closer to your original ED. Rotation from close to infinity is also clockwise and travel is somewhere around 400 degrees.

The focus mechanism on the ED2 is smoother, but has a little bit more free play when switching rotation direction.

Blackouts: I view without my eye glasses and find eye placement somewhat more difficult with my Zen-Ray binoculars than I do some of the other models, such as Nikon. It is necessary for me to place them higher up under my eyebrows in order to avoid blackouts. I believe this is because Zen-Ray appears to have a shorter eyecup length in relation to the eye relief than some of the other brands. Zen-Ray is not alone. I have the same issue, but more so with some of the new Zeiss Conquest models I tried. I can get the Zen-Rays to work for me, but it would be better if the eye cups extended out a little bit more. This is one of those items that you will have to try for yourself.

JakeM · Apr 26, 2014

Hello John.
I have both Zen Ray ED 1, in 7, 8 and 10 x versions. I also have the McKinley 10 X 42 (original version). The McKinley takes about 1.25 turns to go from near to infinity. There is some travel beyond infinity for my eyes. I don't know if you wear eye glasses or not, but the McKinley has great eye relief, about 20 mm. This may contribute to blackout problems, thus getting the eye cup height critical. (There are other factors, of course).
Years ago, i also had the 8 x 42 Nikon Premier which had the very fast focusing that you are looking for. About .75 turns from near to infinity. I seem to be in the very small minority that prefers slow focusing. i sold the Nikon's to buy the Zen Rays.
Good luck with your search.
Jake.

jdavis37 · Apr 26, 2014

Jake,

Thanks for the feedback. I guess what is difficult for me to gauge is if my "SLOW" ZR EDs are slower than they were supposed to be as compared to other ZR ED 1's. I'll do a more scientific job today of measuring how many turns of the focus dial it actually takes going from close to infinity but I do now if I am somewhat close focused and need to get to near infinity I have to turn the dial like mad and usually miss what it is I am trying to see. Yesterday I did a no9n scientific measurement and saw approximately 3 complete rotations of the focus dial, showing how much I was having to turn it to go from one end to the other.

I also understand a very fast focus speed is more or less coarse focus and it would be easy to keep missing the desired focus spot. But right now if I had 3/4 turn or 1 1/4 turn I would be happy with either in comparison! My ZR ED could well be the as designed focus speed or it could be in need of return to ZR for fixing! Thx again John

JakeM said:
Hello John.
I have both Zen Ray ED 1, in 7, 8 and 10 x versions. I also have the McKinley 10 X 42 (original version). The McKinley takes about 1.25 turns to go from near to infinity. There is some travel beyond infinity for my eyes. I don't know if you wear eye glasses or not, but the McKinley has great eye relief, about 20 mm. This may contribute to blackout problems, thus getting the eye cup height critical. (There are other factors, of course).
Years ago, i also had the 8 x 42 Nikon Premier which had the very fast focusing that you are looking for. About .75 turns from near to infinity. I seem to be in the very small minority that prefers slow focusing. i sold the Nikon's to buy the Zen Rays.
Good luck with your search.
Jake.

BruceH · Apr 26, 2014

John,

I had a Zen-Ray Prime HD 10X42 that was from the first production batch (July, 2012), but returned it at the end of the evaluation period. Looking back at one of my old posts about it, I said the rotation travel from close focus to infinity was about one and one third turns and the rotation direction from close focus to infinity was counter clockwise. The primary reason I returned it was because I had to much of a problem getting the proper positioning without blackouts. I think part of the issue was short eye cups. Others had the 10X and said they had no blackout issues and I have not seen ongoing posts reporting this as an issue. I do not know if changes have been made since the first production run. I also had rolling ball issues that bothered me. I got the impression the 8X at that time had less issues, meaning not as sensitive to positioning and rolling ball. The only way you will know for sure if it fits you is to give it a try. The view was very good.

If you want a fast focus, then consider the Vanguard Endeavor ED 10X42. Travel from close focus to infinity is counter clockwise of about 200 degrees! Actually, I wish it had a little more travel. You only have to twitch the focus knob at infinity to be out of focus. It usually takes me one or two cycles to calm down and readjust if I have not used it in a while, then all is good.

Reviews of the Vanguard are mostly on one extreme or the other. Most of the negative reviews relate to CA issues. I first bought a 8X and loved it, so I then got a 10X. I am not one to see CA, but it stood out like a neon light when I took my first view through the 10X. With the help of Vanguard Tech Support, we concluded mine had a manufacturing defect and I exchanged them for a second 10X unit. The new one was much better. It has slightly more CA than the 8X but I have to look for it. I do not notice it at all in the field.

Vanguard announced a couple of months ago that they they will be coming out with the Vanguard Endeavor ED 2nd generation soon. They say it will have higher quality glass from Hoya. The view is very good as is, so I doubt there will be a shocking improvement. Sometimes these changes are due more to internal and vendor issues rather than pure product design improvements. We will have to wait to find out what the new Endeavor has to offer. The body and mechanics look the same. I do not know if they are going to slow down the focus a little, but that would be nice. There may be some close out sales going on. B & H Photo is currently showing $249.08. I bought mine from B & H a few months ago when they had a special discount code offer and Vanguard had a $50 rebate. I think my delivered cost was around $160, probably my best binocular value buy. Also, B & H was superb in handling the exchange, even picking up the return shipping.

It would be extremely difficult if I had to choose between the Zen-Ray ED3 10X and the Vanguard Endeavor ED 10X. The Zen-Ray gives a slightly better view. The Zen appears a tad brighter and has a more natural color balance where the Vanguard is slightly warm. The Zen is better on CA but has a little more pin cushion. The Vanguard has a larger center view and better edges. The Vanguard also fits me better and has an excellent focus mechanism that is smooth and precise. The focus of the Zen is easier to control because it is not as fast and I like the clockwise rotation better.

Three rotations of travel for your ED is a lot! I suggest you contact Charles at Zen-Ray to find out if that is normal for the first ED and if he has any suggestions. He does go above and beyond to resolve any problems.

jdavis37 · Apr 27, 2014

Bruce,

Thx... I did a more precise measurement today and from close to infinity my ZR ED version 1 takes right at 2 3/4 rotations. Very slow.

I appreciate the Vanguard recommendation though they are now about $250. Sounds like you got a very good price!

I have afew oddball blackout issues with the ZR EDs though nothing severe. But I do have to maneuver the eyepieces to ensure I have a good fit. I can't just grab them and set them over my eyes.

Tomorrow I hope to go by Dicks and see what they stock. Any more it is difficult to find stock to try. Luckily most of these glasses have a decent to good trial period given the fit to face is unique for each person.

I'll see if ZR can answer the question about my focus. If it is fixable even better. I'll take a look at the naguard and see what I can turn up. I found the optics on my ZRs to be more than fine, just the very very slow focus and some occasional blackouts! John

BruceH said:
John,

I had a Zen-Ray Prime HD 10X42 that was from the first production batch (July, 2012), but returned it at the end of the evaluation period. Looking back at one of my old posts about it, I said the rotation travel from close focus to infinity was about one and one third turns and the rotation direction from close focus to infinity was counter clockwise. The primary reason I returned it was because I had to much of a problem getting the proper positioning without blackouts. I think part of the issue was short eye cups. Others had the 10X and said they had no blackout issues and I have not seen ongoing posts reporting this as an issue. I do not know if changes have been made since the first production run. I also had rolling ball issues that bothered me. I got the impression the 8X at that time had less issues, meaning not as sensitive to positioning and rolling ball. The only way you will know for sure if it fits you is to give it a try. The view was very good.

If you want a fast focus, then consider the Vanguard Endeavor ED 10X42. Travel from close focus to infinity is counter clockwise of about 200 degrees! Actually, I wish it had a little more travel. You only have to twitch the focus knob at infinity to be out of focus. It usually takes me one or two cycles to calm down and readjust if I have not used it in a while, then all is good.

Reviews of the Vanguard are mostly on one extreme or the other. Most of the negative reviews relate to CA issues. I first bought a 8X and loved it, so I then got a 10X. I am not one to see CA, but it stood out like a neon light when I took my first view through the 10X. With the help of Vanguard Tech Support, we concluded mine had a manufacturing defect and I exchanged them for a second 10X unit. The new one was much better. It has slightly more CA than the 8X but I have to look for it. I do not notice it at all in the field.

Vanguard announced a couple of months ago that they they will be coming out with the Vanguard Endeavor ED 2nd generation soon. They say it will have higher quality glass from Hoya. The view is very good as is, so I doubt there will be a shocking improvement. Sometimes these changes are due more to internal and vendor issues rather than pure product design improvements. We will have to wait to find out what the new Endeavor has to offer. The body and mechanics look the same. I do not know if they are going to slow down the focus a little, but that would be nice. There may be some close out sales going on. B & H Photo is currently showing $249.08. I bought mine from B & H a few months ago when they had a special discount code offer and Vanguard had a $50 rebate. I think my delivered cost was around $160, probably my best binocular value buy. Also, B & H was superb in handling the exchange, even picking up the return shipping.

It would be extremely difficult if I had to choose between the Zen-Ray ED3 10X and the Vanguard Endeavor ED 10X. The Zen-Ray gives a slightly better view. The Zen appears a tad brighter and has a more natural color balance where the Vanguard is slightly warm. The Zen is better on CA but has a little more pin cushion. The Vanguard has a larger center view and better edges. The Vanguard also fits me better and has an excellent focus mechanism that is smooth and precise. The focus of the Zen is easier to control because it is not as fast and I like the clockwise rotation better.

Three rotations of travel for your ED is a lot! I suggest you contact Charles at Zen-Ray to find out if that is normal for the first ED and if he has any suggestions. He does go above and beyond to resolve any problems.

jdavis37 · Apr 29, 2014

I decided to write Zen Ray last week asking them about the 2 3/4 turns required to go from close focus to infinity, thinking this sounded like a REALLY slow focus and somehow doubtful it was supposed to be that way (it was from day one actually.. I was not doing much closer focusing then and I forgave it at the time). It has only been 2 business days but thus far now word.

Same for PM sent to Charles. I realize people are busy and will give it a little more time but do hope in end I can get a real answer and if needed a tune up. One of the reasons I bought the ZR ED was for the lifetime warranty. Thx to all who replied on my question!

BruceH · Apr 30, 2014

I noticed that sometimes the e-mails get lost in the great big bit bucket. I usually wait between 1 to 2 days, then resend. I never got the impression from Charles that he thought I was bugging him. As a matter of fact, he has even said in another thread recently to resend if you do not hear back .....

" ....it is better to PM me directly if you need any assistance with purchasing or service. It is the best way to escalate any issue to my personal attention. I promise you that I will respond to your PM within 12 hours or less."

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2962273&postcount=18

My thought is he travels ..... a lot, especially to Asia. That my be a factor in keeping up with the e-mails.

I am surprised other members have not posted actual rotation measurments from ED(1) models that they owned. I did look for some old reviews but could not find any that contained that specific information.

How did things go out at Dick's Sporting Goods? I was at one once in my area and it did not have anything worth looking at. I did notice there is a Bass Pro and a couple of Gander Mountains in your area. They should be better than Dick's Sporting Goods, especially Bass Pro. It also looks like a Cabela's is planned for next spring just south of Charlotte in Fort Mill. Cabela's has the best selection in my area.

jdavis37 · Apr 30, 2014

Bruce,

Thx.. I had searched for a while regarding the ED (1) series and the focus degrees but could not find anything. Reading other reviews though makes me suspicious that my pair could be an "oddity" given nearly 3 full rotations is excessive. When i bought them I was mostly near infinity and just wrote it off. And I am now mostly behind a big lens and do most of my bird watching via a camera. But there are times when bins are simply better suited and other day I saw 2 smallish birds I wasn't sure of and I got the ZRs out and tried to get focus on them but they were moving too quickly for the focus wheel to help! Then the return to here as I was also considering a second pair of bins since my other half now enjoys birds.

On things REALLY pressing I am not always patient but in this case is easy to wait a reasonable time period before writing. I know Charles is busy and has many people wanting his attention, especially given he also posts here. The form email to ZR.. my experience has been many web site form emails go to the dead letter box. I'll write another in a day or so.

I have NO IDEA what I was thinking when I said Dicks other than it is about amile from me. As soon as I went in I regretted it and yes their binocular selection was poor at best. I shiouldnt say that in a bad way but suffice it to say they had nothing of interest for me. years aho they had Nikon Monarch series at least but now the most expensive pair I saw was a $170 redfield set. nuf said.

I was going to go to Bass Pro but ran out of time so will perhaps find them over the weekend. Says they have some nicer items in stock but that may mean in stock with Bass Pro warehouse. Most of what Gander had on line says ships from manufacturer so hard to say what they have until I visit!

I am actually interested in some non ZR binoculars as well.. the Prime HD caught my eyes as have the Leupold Mckinley once the new version is released. The Vortex Vipers also are there and was hoping Bass pro had them in stock. Zeiss Conquest have a rebate and I found a demo pair that would bring that price down to about $800. Above my orig budget but not excessively so. And then I found a demo pair of Kowa Genesis for a little over $700 though at that price I am concerned with condition!

Of course if the ZRs had a much faster focus I would be happy! Question is on fast focus I wont know how fast is too fast until I find it

John

BruceH said:
I noticed that sometimes the e-mails get lost in the great big bit bucket. I usually wait between 1 to 2 days, then resend. I never got the impression from Charles that he thought I was bugging him. As a matter of fact, he has even said in another thread recently to resend if you do not hear back .....

" ....it is better to PM me directly if you need any assistance with purchasing or service. It is the best way to escalate any issue to my personal attention. I promise you that I will respond to your PM within 12 hours or less."

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2962273&postcount=18

My thought is he travels ..... a lot, especially to Asia. That my be a factor in keeping up with the e-mails.

I am surprised other members have not posted actual rotation measurments from ED(1) models that they owned. I did look for some old reviews but could not find any that contained that specific information.

How did things go out at Dick's Sporting Goods? I was at one once in my area and it did not have anything worth looking at. I did notice there is a Bass Pro and a couple of Gander Mountains in your area. They should be better than Dick's Sporting Goods, especially Bass Pro. It also looks like a Cabela's is planned for next spring just south of Charlotte in Fort Mill. Cabela's has the best selection in my area.

jdavis37 · Apr 30, 2014

I did find this min review from 2009:

http://binocularsforbirding.blogspot.com/2009/08/zen-ray-ed-8x43-review-and-field-use.html

Where the reviewer stated the focus was

But alas this bin too has its share of problems. For one the the focus is painfully slow. Even the slow Celestron seems to be lightning fast as compared to the Zen Ray

Another review of the 7 x 36ED said "The Zen Ray is noticeably slower in that it takes approximately 1.75 turns to go from close focus to infinity with just a little bit of play within that to compensate for some individuals with specific visual impairments."

Of course my 10 x 43's are requiring 2.75 turns so does that imply mine are off or is that just a size difference? Still searching! John

OK just found this:

>>that they have had the grey ghost effect on the 8x43 ED1 and 10x but i heard that the 8x43 ED2 and 10x43 have both improved a little on the lenses easier to clean with new coatings and better in the rain,and they inmproved the focus knob from 2 1/2 turns to 1 3/4 <<

Sounds like mine at approx 2 3/4 turns was probably a design feature. Guess I got better at searching tonight!

FrankD · Apr 30, 2014

Sorry I did not see this until now.

Yes, the original Zen Ray ED series had a slower focuser. 2.75 turns sounds correct from what I remember. They were built off of a design shared by some other models...original Hawke Frontier ED and Promaster Infiniti Elite ELX ED being the others at the time.

The Zen Ray ED2s had a faster focuser.....1.75 turns and the ED3 had an even faster focuser...1.25 turns if I remember correctly.

Steve C · Apr 30, 2014

FrankD said:
Sorry I did not see this until now.

Yes, the original Zen Ray ED series had a slower focuser. 2.75 turns sounds correct from what I remember. They were built off of a design shared by some other models...original Hawke Frontier ED and Promaster Infiniti Elite ELX ED being the others at the time.

The Zen Ray ED2s had a faster focuser.....1.75 turns and the ED3 had an even faster focuser...1.25 turns if I remember correctly.

+1

The original series ZEN ED does have a slow focus, and yes it is 2.75 turns. It is a mechanical design and can't be fixed. Well, it might be, but it would be cheaper to get a ZEN ED 3

. Certainly nobody would cover that under warranty.

So a faster focus need means a different binocular. I'd suggest an ED 3 actually as the eye cups are a bit different and the facial ergonomics are better with that variant as well.

jdavis37 · May 2, 2014

Frank,

Thanks.....I had gotten a PM from Charles and he confirmed the turns for the ED series (geesh too many TV commercials. is difficult for me to write ED) but appreciate the feedback and hopefully if in future another somebody feels their ZR ED series 1's are focusing like a tire on ice they will know it was designed that way. If you are near one distance or the other and not changing they are optically good enough for me. Just want something that focuses faster and tonight I received another PM from a very nice member who made mention of his IPD so I measured mine and it is narrow.. between 58 and 60mm and thus this may explain some of the black out issues I sometimes have with my EDs. Another factor for me to consider! John

FrankD said:
Sorry I did not see this until now.

Yes, the original Zen Ray ED series had a slower focuser. 2.75 turns sounds correct from what I remember. They were built off of a design shared by some other models...original Hawke Frontier ED and Promaster Infiniti Elite ELX ED being the others at the time.

The Zen Ray ED2s had a faster focuser.....1.75 turns and the ED3 had an even faster focuser...1.25 turns if I remember correctly.

jdavis37 · May 2, 2014

Steve,

Thx. I am planning to buy another set of bins. My wife likes the current EDs I have and she is not having blackouts at all whereas I get them semi frequently. As stated above my IPD is narrow, between 58 and 60mm which I am guessing may be contributing to the blackouts as I have to really make the 2 barrels narrow to start with.

I had been considering a demo pair of the Kowa Genesis but now am concerned about the narrowness of my eyes! But that said how would either ED3 or Prime do with a narrow IPD person? John

Steve C said:
+1

The original series ZEN ED does have a slow focus, and yes it is 2.75 turns. It is a mechanical design and can't be fixed. Well, it might be, but it would be cheaper to get a ZEN ED 3 . Certainly nobody would cover that under warranty.

So a faster focus need means a different binocular. I'd suggest an ED 3 actually as the eye cups are a bit different and the facial ergonomics are better with that variant as well.

eitanaltman · May 2, 2014

My biggest eegronomic gripe with the Zen EDs was somewhat what you describe, with a moderately narrow IPD (I'm around 60mm) the thick barrels are so close together that you csnt put your fingers between the tubes, largely negating the ergonomic benefit of the open bridge design.

I doubt the blackouts are due to IPD. It's much more likely to be due to the combination of eye relief and your face, if the "interface" isn't right and your eyes are too close to the lenses or have trouble centering you can get blackouts.

I never tried the first ED line but had both ED2 and ED3 and greatly preferred the focus (both feel and speed) of the ED3. That said, focus knobs in general aren't Zen rays forte.

If you want an affordable bin with a smooth fast focus I would look at the Zeiss Terra, Vanguard Endeavor, or if you want to shave a bit of weight the Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 or (well broken in) Leupold Mojave 8x32. All are in the $250-350 range. None will spank a Zen ED3 optically but they offer different strengths.

If you want to splurge a bit you can get a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 or Kowa Genesis 8x33 in the $600-700 range as demos now. Both will be a noticeable step up optically and mechanically, and both have very smooth, precise well engineered focus knobs that sre a pleasure to use.

Zen-Ray Ed (1) (1 Viewer)

More options

jdavis37

Member

BruceH

Avatar: Harris Hawk

jdavis37

Member

JakeM

Well-known member

jdavis37

Member

BruceH

Avatar: Harris Hawk

jdavis37

Member

jdavis37

Member

BruceH

Avatar: Harris Hawk

jdavis37

Member

jdavis37

Member

FrankD

Well-known member

Steve C

Well-known member

jdavis37

Member

jdavis37

Member

eitanaltman

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread