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Vortex Razor HD 8x42 vs Swarovski / Zeiss etc (1 Viewer)

M

miketaylor

Well-known member
Hi all,

I'm in the market for some new bins, finally upgrading from my 1990 Swarovski Habicht 10x40 (which have been superb). At the time I thought that optically they were virtually as good as the Zeiss 10x40 Dialyt, but the Habicht cost £318 vs c£500 for the Zeiss (in 1990!).

I want something that I can use with/without glasses, also close focus for insects - the Habicht aren't good for either. I will probably go for 8x rather than 10x for less shake. And something that will last for the next 25 years!

Recently Birdwatch magazine had a review of the Vortex Razor HD 8x42 bins, which reckoned the optical quality was up with the leaders (presumably the 8.5x42 Swarovision).

The SVs cost £1765 in the UK, and when I've briefly tried them out I thought they were fantastic. The Razor HDs are £999 or less (c£750 on eBay).

Of course, I'll go and try them all out before I buy, but just wanted peoples' opinion whether they think the extra £750-£1000 is justified for the SV over the Razor.

Mike
 
Mike,

I've tried most of the Vortex range a few times and the Razor HD is easily the best and for me it's optically comparable to the very best as you suggest. It is different to Swarovski EL SV. I personally find the Swarovski colour balance is often on the blue side of neutral and the Vortex are slightly warmer. The Swaro has a slightly wider view but noticeably greater AFOV and of course a flatter view with sharper edges. I'd actually rate the Razor's sharper than the most recent Swarovision 8.5x42s I've tried, though we are spitting hairs at this level. I personally prefer the lighter weight and more traditional design of the Vortex though I'm sure others would disagree. I'd say the Vortex doesn't give the same sense of build quality as the Swaro but of course it is backed by and excellent warranty which should reassure.

I understand your arguments for the 8x42 but if you get a chance I suggest you have a look at the Razor HD 8x and particularly the 10x50 which I liked even more. Slightly above your price point, the Kowa Genesis I also find particularly impressive, thought the weight may be a negative. The Swarovski SLC I like very much as well but the 3.2m close focus might also be a problem. One wildcard you should try is the Viking ED PRO 8x42. I think it was a tough sell at the original £800 price tag but now it's come down to £600 I'd call is something of a bargain.

If you can be patient there is a new generation of high end Japanese made binoculars emerging, currently represented by Maven in the US, the Kite Bonelli 2 in Europe and possibly others in the near future which could well be contenders. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there might be one or two to check out by BirdBair in August.

David
 
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Is it justfied ? It depends on oneself. The SV8.5x42 is the best of the best on my personal list (I don't care nor sensitive to RB), but you won't lose anything in most situations with the Razor HD. I like them both.

Andy
 
I have handled them and the view is awesome but I think it's a TAD on the narrow side. I normally rave about Vortex for value and performance ratio but I can't say I think the current Razor HD is a "great" value at it's price point... I also agree with typo (David) that the Kowa Genesis is a very impressive bin.
 
David in NC said:
I have handled them and the view is awesome but I think it's a TAD on the narrow side. I normally rave about Vortex for value and performance ratio but I can't say I think the current Razor HD is a "great" value at it's price point... I also agree with typo (David) that the Kowa Genesis is a very impressive bin.
Click to expand...

I just picked up the Razor HD 8x42. I already own the 12x50 model.

Yes I would admit that the "value" isn't as great. I think it's easy to justify since we all compare them to the Big 3 and of course they're a great value then!

I happened upon a store return that was literally used for just a few hours. The old guy didn't bother to touch any accessories so I got the 8x42 for a really great deal.

The eye relief is more forgiving on the 12x50 model. If you can hold the 10x or 12x then I would highly recommend checking them out too.

Yes, the 8x42 is smaller and more compact but the 50mm really isn't much bigger. They're almost the same weight.

The Razor HD are really very nice though. You'll be happy.
 
Thanks for all the tips.

I'm interested in the comments about "value" - to my mind, if the Vortex is half the price of the Swarovision but has, for example, 90% of the "quality" (if indeed it is measurable), then to my mind that makes it great value. Or you could argue the other way around that the Swarovision is over-priced! In the UK I could buy the Vortex 8x42 HD instead of the SV and have enough money left over for a couple of 1-week birding trips!

I fully appreciate that I need to try them out in field conditions and would never buy bins until I've spent an hour or two trying them all out. I'm planning to do this in the next couple of weeks. And I'll certainly try the 10x. I've used 10x40 for the last 30 years, but I do notice some image shake, which is why I wondered whether I'll be able to see better detail using 8x due to less shake (and also gain the benefits of advances in optical quality since I bought my current bins).

I'm also interested to see that many people on this forum own multiple pairs of bins. My UK birder friends tend to have just one pair that they use all the time, perhaps with their previous pair kept in the car. I don't think I can afford the Vortex *and* the SV! And indeed, if I bought the SV then I reckon I'd never use anything else.

Mike
 
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miketaylor said:
I'm interested in the comments about "value" - to my mind, if the Vortex is half the price of the Swarovision but has, for example, 90% of the "quality" (if indeed it is measurable), then to my mind that makes it great value. Or you could argue the other way around that the Swarovision is over-priced! In the UK I could buy the Vortex 8x42 HD instead of the SV and have enough money left over for a couple of 1-week birding trips!
Click to expand...

Yes I think that's a fair statement. I would say the Razor's are ~90% equivalent. From the Big 3 that I've held in hand (Swaro and Leica, still haven't found a Zeiss Victory HT anywhere locally) -- the largest difference is the construction quality and weight. The $2500 binocular level definitely "feels" expensive. Optical quality aside you're paying for that level of fit and finish. Presuming the optical quality is at least the same as the Razor HD then you can start to see where your money is going...

One key point for me was Vortex's lifetime warranty. If they only had a 5-year warranty I probably wouldn't have bought the 12x50 model to begin with...

Let me assure you thought the construction quality of the Razor HD is quite nice. The magesnium body really helps with weight and it feels very comfortable.

miketaylor said:
I fully appreciate that I need to try them out in field conditions and would never buy bins until I've spent an hour or two trying them all out. I'm planning to do this in the next couple of weeks. And I'll certainly try the 10x. I've used 10x40 for the last 30 years, but I do notice some image shake, which is why I wondered whether I'll be able to see better detail using 8x due to less shake (and also gain the benefits of advances in optical quality since I bought my current bins).
Click to expand...

Typo swears by the 10x50 Razor HD as he has seen that in person. My 12x50 is really nice too but it's not perfect. There is a bit of outer-edge CA under ideal conditions but 99.8% of the time it's not noticeable.

miketaylor said:
I'm also interested to see that many people on this forum own multiple pairs of bins. My UK birder friends tend to have just one pair that they use all the time, perhaps with their previous pair kept in the car. I don't think I can afford the Vortex *and* the SV! And indeed, if I bought the SV then I reckon I'd never use anything else.
Click to expand...

Yep I would be the same way. I'm looking at buying the Leica HD+ 10x50 model in the near future but I'm not sure how many models I'll keep around after that. It'll be hard because I really like the 12x50 Razor HD. The 8x42 are growing on me though. ;)
 
miketaylor said:
I'm also interested to see that many people on this forum own multiple pairs of bins. My UK birder friends tend to have just one pair that they use all the time, perhaps with their previous pair kept in the car. I don't think I can afford the Vortex *and* the SV! And indeed, if I bought the SV then I reckon I'd never use anything else.

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

I certainly meet many people who only ever use one binocular and are quite content, but I personally find that can be limiting. Factors like working distance, prevailing light levels and colour and practical factors like stability and portability means that no binocular exits that is best for all situations and I prefer to have a choice. Something like the Swarovski ELSV 8x32 or indeed the Vortex Razor HD are very good binoculars but they deliver no more detail than others I have, and between my much more modestly priced 7x36, 8x42, 10x42, 10x56 and 12x50 I've got something much more suited for the task at hand, most of the time. Though my heart might hanker for a premium model my head tells me the money can be better spent. I'm not trying to persuade you mine is the route to follow just pointing out there is another option.

David
 
If you can afford the SV and are looking at it being the "one" for the next 25 years then I`d buy it, the extra over 25 years isn`t that big a deal.

Also check out the Ultravid HD+, you might be surprised and it would be a shame to ignore it.
 
Torview said:
If you can afford the SV and are looking at it being the "one" for the next 25 years then I`d buy it, the extra over 25 years isn`t that big a deal.

Also check out the Ultravid HD+, you might be surprised and it would be a shame to ignore it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was considering that one as well. I couldn't find any specifications on the web, but a recent review of the 10x40 in Birdwatch magazine rated them very highly. However, the article stated the minimum focus distance of 2.9m, which isn't that good compared to the other contenders.

Mike
 
I'm not sure what's happening with Meopta in the UK. Marchwood were the distributor but no longer list them and very few shops appear to have any stock. The 10x42 HD seems to be still the only Meostar HD model available in Europe. It's very good for sure, (better than the Razor HD ?? ) but at over a kilogram, probably not for me. I did get to play with the Leica Ultravid HD-Plus 7x42 for a little while last weekend. Very nice!

David
 
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typo said:
I'm not sure what's happening with Meopta in the UK. Marchwood were the distributor but no longer list them and very few shops appear to have any stock. The 10x42 HD seems to be still the only Meostar HD model available in Europe. It's very good for sure, (better than the Razor HD ?? ) but at over a kilogram, probably not for me. I did get to play with the Leica Ultravid HD-Plus 7x42 for a little while last weekend. Very nice!

David
Click to expand...

Hi David,

How Ultravid Plus compare with Nikon EDG 7x42 ?

Andy
 
winwinbino said:
Hi David,

How Ultravid Plus compare with Nikon EDG 7x42 ?

Andy
Click to expand...

Andy,

It's at least couple of years since I last tried the EDG and the light conditions then were very different then , so really I don't think I can offer much in the way of useful comparison I'm afraid. I know at the time, apart from the obvious stuff like field flatness and weight differences, I thought the EDG had what I'd call better colour vibrancy and contrast than the Ultravid 7x42 at the time. I reckon it's a closer call now. I might get a chance to compare them next month. I post something if I do.

David
 
typo said:
I did get to play with the Leica Ultravid HD-Plus 7x42 for a little while last weekend. Very nice!
Click to expand...

I'd love to compare the 8x42 and 7x42 models directly. I only had a few minutes with the 8x42 model and it was very impressive. Incredibly small with a modest heft for its features and performance.

Now that I have my 8x42 Razor HD, I plan to go back to the Leica store and compare them both. I hope he lets me in the front door!

:flowers:
 
typo said:
Andy,

It's at least couple of years since I last tried the EDG and the light conditions then were very different then , so really I don't think I can offer much in the way of useful comparison I'm afraid. I know at the time, apart from the obvious stuff like field flatness and weight differences, I thought the EDG had what I'd call better colour vibrancy and contrast than the Ultravid 7x42 at the time. I reckon it's a closer call now. I might get a chance to compare them next month. I post something if I do.

David
Click to expand...

Thanks. Looking forward for the comparsions. I once owned the FL & Ultravid (non-HD), but not the EDG742.

Andy
 
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