Nikon 8x32 SE Questions (1 Viewer)

LDueck · Feb 9, 2006

Hello everbody.
I'm new to BF, having joined recently after spending a lot of time reading the discussions on the binocular forum. I've been birding for almost 20 years now and I'm in the market for a new set of binoculars and I'm leaning heavily towards getting the 8x32 SE. Before posing my questions about it, let me give you some background.
I'm still using my first set of binoculars; a pair of 20 year old Minolta 8x40 porros with an extra wide angle fov of 9.5 degrees. They were about $100 CDN when new and have served me well. Being extra wide angle they suffer from extensive softness at the edge of the field. They are not as bright as today's equivalent and their close focus distance is about 15 feet. However, they go from close focus to infinity in 3/4 of a revolution.
I also have a pair of Nikon Travelite III 7x20 with a 7.1 degree fov that also go from close focus (15 feet) to infinity in 3/4 of a revolution. They are 12 years old.
Before I found this forum, I had decided on upgrading to a pair of Nikon Monarch 8x42, based primarily on the Cornell Lab's review. I purchase a pair for $335 CDN and tried them out. The sharpness, brightness, contrast and color were all better than the Minolta's. However, the CA was also sharper and brighter than the Minolta's. On a high contrast subject, the Monarchs had minimal CA only when the subject was dead center. When the subject moved to the edges, the CA lines around the object grew wider and brighter the farther one moved from center. At the edge the CA was substantial and intrusive in my opion. I decided to return the Monarchs. When returning them I compared the amount of CA to a pair of Swaro 8.5x42 EL's. The Swaro's still had some CA, but to my eyes it was probably less than half the brightness and width of the Monarch's, something I could live with but couldn't afford.

Since then I've spent more time researching on the forum and have come to the conclusion that the SE's are great optics at a decent price. Here in Canada they are about $750 CDN. After reading all the discussions of the SE's I have a pretty good idea of their performance, but I still have a few questions about them.
1) They are said to have slow focus. How slow? How many revolutions from close focus to infinity (and beyond)?
2) How well do they handle cold weather? Here in Alberta, Canada winter temperatures average -5 to -15C (at least when I would venture out). Temperatures can drop to -30C, but I'd be inside by then. Its a "dry cold."
3) Lack of waterproofing is not too big an issue, but I wonder how well they are sealed against dust. Long term owners: How big a problem is it with dust working its way into the interior optics over years of use? Once in there, is there any way to clean the bins?
4) My last concern is that no one in my city has them is stock, so I would have to order them sight unseen. I'm not certain how the ergonomics and eye placement issues would work out for me. I do wear glasses.
If the SE's don't work out, I'm also considering the Pentax 8x43 DCF SP ($600 CDN). Any comments from Pentax owners would be appreciated. Also, are there any other good optics in the 600-800 dollar range (both roof and porro)?
Thanks for your help.
Lowell

Pinewood · Feb 9, 2006

Dear Lowell,

Do you wear eyeglasses? A problem for some owners of the Se,especially weares of specs, is "kidney bean" effect or blacking out, parts of the field disappear. I find this extremely annoying, although folding up the rubber eyecups a couple of millimeters or holding the glass at a slihght up angle may help. Unfortunately, I have several binoculars and I object to modifying my activity to use a glass to its full potential. Its 7.5º Field of View may not please every user. In short, I am not an advocate of this binocular.

With my specs on, I find about one full revolution to go from infinity to closest distance. There is a quarter turn left, beyond infinity. I suppose that would accomodate far sighted people. My problem is myopia.

Typical of all Porro prism binoculars is a lot of resistance in focussing compared to roof prism glasses but this is unavoidable. With a roof prism binocular, only a single lens in each tube is displaced in focussing, rather than two, far more massive, tubes and the bridge.

I have not used the SE in cold weather. Indeed my SE is completely out of my favor. Ten minutes in my freezer, about -16ºC, did not seem to make it significantly stiffer.

Now that the binocualr has warmed up, I can feel the difference, but I do not think that it is a big problem.

The eye piece tubes are close fitting, but, as in virtually all Porro binoculars, focussing is effectively evacuating air and filling the tubes with air. Presumably, after many years, a U.S. user can send the binocular back for a cleaning. I am unfamiliar with the Canadian guarantee.

I am completely ignorant of the Canadian market, so I cannot help with your research in the CN$600-800 price range.

Do not buy without testing! Binoculars are extensions of your eyes, arms, and mind. The choice is rather personal. There are many others who think highly of the Se.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

elkcub · Feb 9, 2006

Wow, what a question. If the SEs work for you they're probably the best thing available. The optics can't be beat (but can be equalled, IMO). If they don't work for you, I don't know of any other optic within your $600-900 limit, except perhaps the older design Swaro 8x30 SLC that currently prices out about $800-850. Personally, I think they are the best top-quality buy on the market.

Ed

LDueck · Feb 9, 2006

Thanks Arthur and Ed
As to Canadian prices, they seem to vary from almost equivalent to about 25% higher than the US prices. The larger price differences seem to be more prevelent in the high-end bins.
The one place in Canada where I've found the SE has a 7 day exchange policy (no refunds as far as I know). They also carry Zeiss, Bushnell, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, and Leica.
I'm still searching.
Lowell

ceasar · Feb 9, 2006

Why don't you try the Nikon 8 x 32 LXL Roof Prisms. You should be able to find a pair to try in Edmonton. From what I have read on this website they sell for anywhere from $600.00 to $850.00 US currency. This may be stretching your budget a bit but you have to consider that you will be getting a glass that is as good as any roof prism Leica, Zeiss or Swarovski makes and at substantially less cost. I bought a pair recently from Eagle Optics and I couldn't be more pleased. They focus VERY fast. 3/4 of a turn. They have ER of 17mm with screw down eyecups. They have a 410' FOV at 1000 yards and an 8' close focus. They are waterproof and built like a tank. At 24.5 ounces they are at least 3 ounces heavier than any other 8 x 32 on the market except for the Pentax DCF. Optically they compare very favorably with my Nikon 8 x 30 EII porro prism binoculars and believe me that is saying alot! (The 8 x 30's are a legendary bin!) You have to look hard at very bright objects under very bright conditions to find any CA and it is minimal. Pincushion distortion is also minimal. And they have that Classic Nikon colorless view. No color caste at all. Perfectly pure. Go to a dealer in your city and vet a pair out. Take them ouside to look around, if he will let you. The 8 x 32 SE's are great binoculars, even better than the EII's but binoculars are more than just optics; you have to look at them and judge them in their entirety. Optically, the SE's are better. Overall the LXL's are better. That is why they cost a bit more.
Cordially,
Bob

iporali · Feb 9, 2006

Hi Lowell,

Asking these questions here don't necessarily make your choice any easier, but it shows very well how different our "personal preferences" can be. I have used the Nikon 8x32SEs and 10x32LX/HGs for some years and while I think they are excellent binoculars, I would say that *especially* these binoculars you perhaps shouldn't purchase sight unseen.

I agree with Arthur about blackout-tendency on the SEs, but it depends very much on your eye-to-spectacles distance. IMO the cause of this problem is the sloppy/floppy eyecup, which does not (easily) have "intermediate" positions: it is either completely folded or unfolded. For those whom these positions fit, the SEs must be close to being dream binoculars. I don't quite belong to them, but fortunately my wife does. Their focusing does get *very* stiff in -30° (I had a chance to test it recently), but their depth of field is so good that you don't need to focus constantly.

As you are planning to have the 8x bins, my experiences with the 10x may not be relevant here. What you described with the Monarchs is transverse CA (lateral color) coming from the eyepiece design - and I can see the same very easily with my HGs. My eyes are sensitive to dark purple fringing of the HGs and to avoid noticing it I have to keep my eyes carefully centered. This tiny extra trouble has prevented the HGs from developing a natural "extension of my eyes, arms and mind" - as Arthur beautifully puts it. It certainly is no show-stopper for me (like left-handed focusing on the old Victories, or index finger focusing on the SLC), but I would probably be ready to sacrifice some edge sharpness, contrast and brightness for a little more "relaxed" view. But you seldom can have it all and the HGs offer so much optically and ergonomically that I still feel they were the right choice for me. I agree with Bob & Ed that both LXL/HGLs and SLCs would be excellent value if they have the right fit and feel - and fit to your budget.

I wouldn't worry much about dust with the SEs. Of course some dust will eventually get inside the non-waterproof bins, but having them cleaned after - say - 20 years is not a big deal. Your climate is probably very similar to ours and certainly not too challenging to porro binoculars.

Best regards,

Ilkka

LDueck · Feb 11, 2006

Great news in the binocular search! :bounce: A fellow BF member who owns both the Nikon 8x32 SE's and the 8x32 HG/LX's has offered me the chance to check out his binoculars. You meet great people here on the forum. o

The crazy thing about the whole deal is that he used to live in Edmonton but now lives in Atlanta, Georgia and commutes to Edmonton for work.
This helps immensely as the only store in Edmonton that deals with the high-end Nikons does not have the SE's or HG's in stock, and if I special order the bins, they have a policy of no returns. The place with the 7 day exchange policy is an on-line Canadian retailer.
As to price, the new 8x32 HG/LXL's are about $1200 CDN, which is really pushing my limit, if not over it.
I'll keep you posted as to how the test turns out.

Lowell

LDueck · Feb 21, 2006

Update in Binocular Search

A week ago I had a chance to test the Nikon 8x32 SE's and the 8x32 HG's thanks to a fellow BF member who brought them up to Edmonton.

I spent about 40 minutes outside in bright sunlight on a city street comparing the two bins and basically my impressions are similar to what others have said about the two. As to sharpness and brightness in the center of the field, I could detect no difference.
The colour cast of both bins seemed to my eyes to be neutral and very true to the actual colours viewed. The SE was sharper at the edges of the field as compared to the HG; only the very edge of the SE's field had a drop off in sharpness. The SE also had less CA than the HG. With a high contrast subject off center the SE had a very thin fringe of colour, maybe about half the width of the fringe in the HG. Both had minimal pincushion distortion at the edges of the field. I did notice that the SE had more of a 3D view than the HG. As I have used porro bins for 20 years of birding, the first thing that struck me (other than sharpness and brightness) when I looked through a pair of Swaro roofs was how flat, fore-shortened and two dimensional the image looked. The roofs lacked that feeling of depth between objects. As to the actual depth of field difference between the SE's and HG's, I did not spend enough time comparing the two to get a definative impression.

As to focusing speed, you couldn't pick too more dissimilar binoculars. The SE's were fairly slow and stiff, but nothing beyond what I've experienced with my old porros. The HG's were lightening quick, with a tendency to go past the point of focus. Only very small, fine finger movements are needed to tune the focus. With practice, I could get used to the speed of the HG's and see it as a positive feature.

As to actual feel in the hand, I prefer the SE's and their old chunky porro feel in which I can wrap my whole hand around the bins. I have large hands and what must be a smaller IPD which causes me to set the two tubes near the minimum end of the scale. On roof prism bins, especially smaller ones like the HG's, I find that my thumbs end up touching each other and have to be staggered in position in order to have enough room. I also have a hard time getting my palms on the tubes and end up holding the binoculars between thumbs and fingertips. Only the Swaro EL's with their open bridge design allowed me to get a truly comfortable grip in which my fingers and palms could wrap around the tubes. With the SE's I could easily wrap my large hands around the prism housings and still reach the focus wheel with both my forefinger and my thumb. And they weren't so big that my elbows were sticking out; I could pull them in nicely.

And now the final kicker; the dreaded "blackout effect". Yes, I did experience it a few times when looking through the SE's (I wear glasses and had the eyecups folded all the way down). The SE's needed to be lined up with the eyes more carefully than the HG's. A bit more work was needed to ensure a good view. I'm not certain what exactly caused the blackout effect (a part or all of the field going black), but it seemed to occur when quickly panning or following an object. Not a deal breaker, but something to be aware of. I'll trust John Traynor that with a little practice, things will be okay.

In the end, my chance to compare the two bins was a great help, but it also made the decision difficult. I really liked the HG's and the fact that they are waterproof and fogproof. Their optics are great; you are not loosing much going from the SE's to the HG's. However, in my case their price is beyond my budget at the time (HG's $1200 CDN vs SE's $775 CDN).

So today I ordered the SE's from Eagle Optics in Canada. He had a pair of SE's that were demo bins for a discount, but I decided to go for new pair ordered from Nikon. Eagle Optics in Canada has the same 30 day return policy as in the USA, so I feel confident ordering from them knowing I have a good time period in which to further test the SE's. In the end the SE's lack of waterproofing is not too critical to me since I'm not an "extreme" birder. Most of my birding is day hikes in fair to good weather on relatively easy trails (no mountain climbing or wading through swamps).

I also decided to order a pair of Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio close focus binoculars since I've just started to get interested in dragonfly and butterfly watching. In fact this whole binocular search started with my looking for the close focusing Nikon 5x15 HG monocular to use for dragonfly watching. The Papilio's sound like a much more useful and user friendly instrument than monoculars.

Now comes the long wait for the bins and then the anxious checking them out to make sure they are in good working order.

Lowell

Pileatus · Feb 21, 2006

LDueck said:
Update in Binocular Search

A week ago I had a chance to test the Nikon 8x32 SE's and the 8x32 HG's thanks to a fellow BF member who brought them up to Edmonton.

I spent about 40 minutes outside in bright sunlight on a city street comparing the two bins and basically my impressions are similar to what others have said about the two. As to sharpness and brightness in the center of the field, I could detect no difference.
The colour cast of both bins seemed to my eyes to be neutral and very true to the actual colours viewed. The SE was sharper at the edges of the field as compared to the HG; only the very edge of the SE's field had a drop off in sharpness. The SE also had less CA than the HG. With a high contrast subject off center the SE had a very thin fringe of colour, maybe about half the width of the fringe in the HG. Both had minimal pincushion distortion at the edges of the field. I did notice that the SE had more of a 3D view than the HG. As I have used porro bins for 20 years of birding, the first thing that struck me (other than sharpness and brightness) when I looked through a pair of Swaro roofs was how flat, fore-shortened and two dimensional the image looked. The roofs lacked that feeling of depth between objects. As to the actual depth of field difference between the SE's and HG's, I did not spend enough time comparing the two to get a definative impression.

As to focusing speed, you couldn't pick too more dissimilar binoculars. The SE's were fairly slow and stiff, but nothing beyond what I've experienced with my old porros. The HG's were lightening quick, with a tendency to go past the point of focus. Only very small, fine finger movements are needed to tune the focus. With practice, I could get used to the speed of the HG's and see it as a positive feature.

As to actual feel in the hand, I prefer the SE's and their old chunky porro feel in which I can wrap my whole hand around the bins. I have large hands and what must be a smaller IPD which causes me to set the two tubes near the minimum end of the scale. On roof prism bins, especially smaller ones like the HG's, I find that my thumbs end up touching each other and have to be staggered in position in order to have enough room. I also have a hard time getting my palms on the tubes and end up holding the binoculars between thumbs and fingertips. Only the Swaro EL's with their open bridge design allowed me to get a truly comfortable grip in which my fingers and palms could wrap around the tubes. With the SE's I could easily wrap my large hands around the prism housings and still reach the focus wheel with both my forefinger and my thumb. And they weren't so big that my elbows were sticking out; I could pull them in nicely.

And now the final kicker; the dreaded "blackout effect". Yes, I did experience it a few times when looking through the SE's (I wear glasses and had the eyecups folded all the way down). The SE's needed to be lined up with the eyes more carefully than the HG's. A bit more work was needed to ensure a good view. I'm not certain what exactly caused the blackout effect (a part or all of the field going black), but it seemed to occur when quickly panning or following an object. Not a deal breaker, but something to be aware of. I'll trust John Traynor that with a little practice, things will be okay.

In the end, my chance to compare the two bins was a great help, but it also made the decision difficult. I really liked the HG's and the fact that they are waterproof and fogproof. Their optics are great; you are not loosing much going from the SE's to the HG's. However, in my case their price is beyond my budget at the time (HG's $1200 CDN vs SE's $775 CDN).

So today I ordered the SE's from Eagle Optics in Canada. He had a pair of SE's that were demo bins for a discount, but I decided to go for new pair ordered from Nikon. Eagle Optics in Canada has the same 30 day return policy as in the USA, so I feel confident ordering from them knowing I have a good time period in which to further test the SE's. In the end the SE's lack of waterproofing is not too critical to me since I'm not an "extreme" birder. Most of my birding is day hikes in fair to good weather on relatively easy trails (no mountain climbing or wading through swamps).

I also decided to order a pair of Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio close focus binoculars since I've just started to get interested in dragonfly and butterfly watching. In fact this whole binocular search started with my looking for the close focusing Nikon 5x15 HG monocular to use for dragonfly watching. The Papilio's sound like a much more useful and user friendly instrument than monoculars.

Now comes the long wait for the bins and then the anxious checking them out to make sure they are in good working order.

Lowell

Lowell,

You are about to see and experience details others dream about.

A few friendly comments:
1. Don't be tempted by the eyecups. Keep them folded down.
2. You can rest your forefingers on the eyepieces and then rest them against your eyebrows for stability. Do it gently and it will not affect bridge movement one iota.
3. Try both middle fingers on the focus wheel and use them both for focusing.

If you adopt this method, you will see how easy it is to move the bin away from your eyeglasses with very little loss of FOV. It's incredibly stable and you will soon learn how to eliminate blackouts completely. I’ve used the SE in this manner from 0700 to 1700 hours while counting hawks and I always regretted seeing the sunset.

If you have any questions, please ask.

Enjoy!

John

Nikon 8x32 SE Questions (1 Viewer)

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LDueck

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Pinewood

New York correspondent

elkcub

Silicon Valley, California

LDueck

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ceasar

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iporali

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LDueck

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LDueck

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Pileatus

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