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Blurred photos with Canon 100-400 with teleconverter? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wine Man
- Start date
eospete
Active member
I have discovered exactly the same thing and will longer use tcs on my 1-4. I said something similar to George in a discussion on the 300mmf2.8 which I am considering get to replace the 1-4. Maybe its the extra glass or perhaps me but I can't get tack sharp pics either even when resting on a beanbag or tripod even with IS, Mirror lock and cable release.
Are you shooting it wide open as I find stopping down to 6.7 or 7.1 gives much sharper pics than 5.6
I often use it at f11 with tubes as a long macro lens and can get 15x10 prints which compare favourably with scans from velvia
P
Are you shooting it wide open as I find stopping down to 6.7 or 7.1 gives much sharper pics than 5.6
I often use it at f11 with tubes as a long macro lens and can get 15x10 prints which compare favourably with scans from velvia
P
There are several reasons why your pictures become unsharp with the teleconverter. The extra glass won't help, but with the quality of Canon optics, the main reason will probably be camera shake. Using the converter will increase your shutter speeds and with the extra focal length the whole setup will be very prone to vibration. Even with a heavy tripod, the slightest movement due to wind or heavy footsteps could spoil the picture. Focusing is absolutely critical at these focal lengths and good as modern AF systems are, the camera can only lock to what it thinks is the intended subject.
There are some tricks to counter these problems, as has already been mentioned. Using a tripod without the legs extended will help as will using a remote release. Try taking shots from a sheltered spot. The other thing to do is to keep practising!
AndyC
There are some tricks to counter these problems, as has already been mentioned. Using a tripod without the legs extended will help as will using a remote release. Try taking shots from a sheltered spot. The other thing to do is to keep practising!
AndyC
Tony_InDevon
Bird Lover & People Photographer
The make of teleconverter also makes a difference and number of Elements it has, alas we don't have that info. It could be they are not as compatable as they should be 
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When using converters there is allways some loss in sharpness and color fringing is increased. The canon 1.4X is pretty good and I have read that used with the 100-400 can give good results. I would suggest stopping down at least 1/2 to 1 stop when using converters.
I am using a 200mm f2.8 and notice both loss in sharpness and more color fringing in high contrast situations when using converters (canon 1.4 &X 2X).
I am using a 200mm f2.8 and notice both loss in sharpness and more color fringing in high contrast situations when using converters (canon 1.4 &X 2X).
George McCarthy
Active member
Yes that’s a very common complaint that I hear time and time again when I am giving talks to camera clubs or running a workshop. And it applies, not only the 100-400mm, but with any telephoto lens of 300mm or more. So what is going wrong and needs to be done?
Well, in simple terms, when you add one or more converters you are putting more glass between the your subject and the film and that leads to a fall off in the image quality. You get nothing for nothing; there is always a trade off.
Think about it logically if the quality remained the same no one would buy the bigger telephotos. Why pay all that money or carry all that weight when you could buy a much cheaper and much lighter 200mm or 300mm and stack up converters until you reached the image size you wanted.
When I first started in wildlife photography it was using Canon bodies and a Canon lenses. However the top macro lens around at the time was the Tamron 90mm, which, I think, came with a life size adapter and I bought one. It gave me excellent results but all the time I was using it I was constantly thinking should I really have paid more and bought the Canon macro equivalent? This thought played on my mind constantly, so much so that in the end I sold the Tamron and bought the more expensive Canon 100mm. At that time I could not see a difference in my results (I can now) but by trading up I stopped worrying about the equipment and could therefore concentrate more on actually taking the photographs. I have followed that premise ever since, I buy the best and then if there is a problem with the quality of the image it is down to a flaw in my technique.
So coming back to the original question how much the image deteriorates initially depends on two things. The quality of the lens and the quality of the converter – they both have to be of the highest quality to give the best results. Buy a cheap telephoto and a cheap converter the results are rubbish. Buy the top of the range telephoto and a cheap converter and the results will still be rubbish although not quite as bad as in the previous example. In my opinion you have to buy the best to get the best – and that’s only the starting point
But what happens if you do buy the best and your results are still poor? Simple, your technique needs to be looked at because it is clearly at fault. Let me tell you where you are going wrong and how to fix it!
Wine Man, you say the problem occurs with your Canon 100-400mm and so I am going to assume you are using Canon converters, in other words, you have the best gear already. I am also going to assume that the lens has never been dropped or damaged.
“Here we go” as the Actress said to the Archbishop.
When you use a telephoto lens the effect is that you magnify your subject to a greater or lesser degree depending on the focal length of the lens. What you also do, without realising it is that YOU MAGNIFY ANY PROBLEMS AS WELL and these increase in proportion to the length of the lens and the shutter/film speed.
What are these problems? The three main ones are camera/lens shake, shutter shock and mirror slap and I will deal with them in reverse order.
MIRROR SLAP is hard to evaluate on its own but there is no doubt that it causes vibration within the camera body and can have a softening effect on the image albeit minimal. If you have a camera body that allows you to lock up the mirror use it and your 1st problem is solved completely. If you don’t consider it an essential feature on the next body you purchase. Its’ effects can and will be reduced however by taking the next steps.
SHUTTER SHOCK is also something that most photographers never give a thought to so here is a test for you all to do. With just an empty camera body fire the camera with your top front teeth on the hot shoe. Providing the teeth are your own you will now know what shutter shock is and can imagine devastating effects that vibration has when it is transmitted throughout the body and lens. My cure is controversial and goes against 99% of the advice given in most photography books.
DO NOT USE A CABLE/ELECTRONIC RELEASE!!!!!
Yes I can hear you already booing and shouting “RUBBISH!” but wait, lets look at this logically. Most telephoto lenses, certainly the good ones, have a tripod collar that allows you to instantly switch from shooting in vertical mode to horizontal mode and vice-versa. It’s an essential piece of kit but it has a downside and that is your camera is no longer supported apart from being connected to the lens. It is literally hanging in mid-air and the vibrations caused by mirror slap and shutter shock are not damped in any way whatsoever which they would have been if the body was attached directly to the tripod. Agreed?
So recognising this problem we see photographers using a second tripod or a monopod braced back to the tripod but although such solutions do work they are impractical in my opinion. They may work for the landscape guy but for wildlife photography and bird photography specifically forget it. We have to work at speed so my solution is that the photographer becomes the additional brace. When I am shooting I jam the camera body against my cheek at the same time pulling it there with my hand right hand. At the same time I drape my left arm over the lens that serves as additional damping overall. Take it from me once you work this way you will not use the old cable release but don’t throw it away – I’ll tell you why you still need it at a later date.
Now the major problem CAMERA AND LENS SHAKE. These problems are resolved by using a tripod and a head that are suitable for the body and lens combination and here, like the defendant in the dock, I refer you to the answer I gave earlier to Sandy’s question on Tripods and Heads.
But we are not totally there yet.
One of the other ways to overcoming all of these problems is to work in aperture priority and so use the fastest shutter speeds you can obtain with the available light. There is no doubt that FASTER SHUTTER SPEEDS MEANS SHARPER PICTURES. Not a problem if you live in southern Florida but decidedly tricky in the Manchester drizzle or under the canopy of a rain forest. You can, of course, overcome bad light by using a faster film but here comes the trade off again. The faster the film the more visible grain and generally that is unacceptable both to us and publishers alike.
If you accept that premise (and, take it from me, it is a fact) that faster shutter speeds result in sharper pictures lets now consider Wine Man’s original question. “Why are my pics un-sharp when I use my converter”? Well its all the reasons I have given above but now made even worse because we are now going to add a converter. Consider what happens when you add lets say a 1.4 converter. You immediately lose a stop of light. So if your shutter speed was 1/125 sec it now becomes 1/60 sec. You have also magnified the image and more importantly magnified these problems we have been discussing earlier.
What we needed when we added the converter was MORE light not less. MORE shutter speed not less. In fact just to equalize what we had before in terms of sharpness we now require a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. Just imagine what happens when you put on a 2x !!!
Well I hope this helps. Try it out for yourself and above all let me know what you think.
Thanks for the question. George
Well, in simple terms, when you add one or more converters you are putting more glass between the your subject and the film and that leads to a fall off in the image quality. You get nothing for nothing; there is always a trade off.
Think about it logically if the quality remained the same no one would buy the bigger telephotos. Why pay all that money or carry all that weight when you could buy a much cheaper and much lighter 200mm or 300mm and stack up converters until you reached the image size you wanted.
When I first started in wildlife photography it was using Canon bodies and a Canon lenses. However the top macro lens around at the time was the Tamron 90mm, which, I think, came with a life size adapter and I bought one. It gave me excellent results but all the time I was using it I was constantly thinking should I really have paid more and bought the Canon macro equivalent? This thought played on my mind constantly, so much so that in the end I sold the Tamron and bought the more expensive Canon 100mm. At that time I could not see a difference in my results (I can now) but by trading up I stopped worrying about the equipment and could therefore concentrate more on actually taking the photographs. I have followed that premise ever since, I buy the best and then if there is a problem with the quality of the image it is down to a flaw in my technique.
So coming back to the original question how much the image deteriorates initially depends on two things. The quality of the lens and the quality of the converter – they both have to be of the highest quality to give the best results. Buy a cheap telephoto and a cheap converter the results are rubbish. Buy the top of the range telephoto and a cheap converter and the results will still be rubbish although not quite as bad as in the previous example. In my opinion you have to buy the best to get the best – and that’s only the starting point
But what happens if you do buy the best and your results are still poor? Simple, your technique needs to be looked at because it is clearly at fault. Let me tell you where you are going wrong and how to fix it!
Wine Man, you say the problem occurs with your Canon 100-400mm and so I am going to assume you are using Canon converters, in other words, you have the best gear already. I am also going to assume that the lens has never been dropped or damaged.
“Here we go” as the Actress said to the Archbishop.
When you use a telephoto lens the effect is that you magnify your subject to a greater or lesser degree depending on the focal length of the lens. What you also do, without realising it is that YOU MAGNIFY ANY PROBLEMS AS WELL and these increase in proportion to the length of the lens and the shutter/film speed.
What are these problems? The three main ones are camera/lens shake, shutter shock and mirror slap and I will deal with them in reverse order.
MIRROR SLAP is hard to evaluate on its own but there is no doubt that it causes vibration within the camera body and can have a softening effect on the image albeit minimal. If you have a camera body that allows you to lock up the mirror use it and your 1st problem is solved completely. If you don’t consider it an essential feature on the next body you purchase. Its’ effects can and will be reduced however by taking the next steps.
SHUTTER SHOCK is also something that most photographers never give a thought to so here is a test for you all to do. With just an empty camera body fire the camera with your top front teeth on the hot shoe. Providing the teeth are your own you will now know what shutter shock is and can imagine devastating effects that vibration has when it is transmitted throughout the body and lens. My cure is controversial and goes against 99% of the advice given in most photography books.
DO NOT USE A CABLE/ELECTRONIC RELEASE!!!!!
Yes I can hear you already booing and shouting “RUBBISH!” but wait, lets look at this logically. Most telephoto lenses, certainly the good ones, have a tripod collar that allows you to instantly switch from shooting in vertical mode to horizontal mode and vice-versa. It’s an essential piece of kit but it has a downside and that is your camera is no longer supported apart from being connected to the lens. It is literally hanging in mid-air and the vibrations caused by mirror slap and shutter shock are not damped in any way whatsoever which they would have been if the body was attached directly to the tripod. Agreed?
So recognising this problem we see photographers using a second tripod or a monopod braced back to the tripod but although such solutions do work they are impractical in my opinion. They may work for the landscape guy but for wildlife photography and bird photography specifically forget it. We have to work at speed so my solution is that the photographer becomes the additional brace. When I am shooting I jam the camera body against my cheek at the same time pulling it there with my hand right hand. At the same time I drape my left arm over the lens that serves as additional damping overall. Take it from me once you work this way you will not use the old cable release but don’t throw it away – I’ll tell you why you still need it at a later date.
Now the major problem CAMERA AND LENS SHAKE. These problems are resolved by using a tripod and a head that are suitable for the body and lens combination and here, like the defendant in the dock, I refer you to the answer I gave earlier to Sandy’s question on Tripods and Heads.
But we are not totally there yet.
One of the other ways to overcoming all of these problems is to work in aperture priority and so use the fastest shutter speeds you can obtain with the available light. There is no doubt that FASTER SHUTTER SPEEDS MEANS SHARPER PICTURES. Not a problem if you live in southern Florida but decidedly tricky in the Manchester drizzle or under the canopy of a rain forest. You can, of course, overcome bad light by using a faster film but here comes the trade off again. The faster the film the more visible grain and generally that is unacceptable both to us and publishers alike.
If you accept that premise (and, take it from me, it is a fact) that faster shutter speeds result in sharper pictures lets now consider Wine Man’s original question. “Why are my pics un-sharp when I use my converter”? Well its all the reasons I have given above but now made even worse because we are now going to add a converter. Consider what happens when you add lets say a 1.4 converter. You immediately lose a stop of light. So if your shutter speed was 1/125 sec it now becomes 1/60 sec. You have also magnified the image and more importantly magnified these problems we have been discussing earlier.
What we needed when we added the converter was MORE light not less. MORE shutter speed not less. In fact just to equalize what we had before in terms of sharpness we now require a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. Just imagine what happens when you put on a 2x !!!
Well I hope this helps. Try it out for yourself and above all let me know what you think.
Thanks for the question. George
For people's reading pleasure (but they don't add too much to what George said) I offer the links I have collected about "long lens technique":
http://www.naturephotographers.net/bh0201-1.html
http://www.naturephotographers.net/ejp0801-1.html
These two should be read back to back, as the second extends on the first.
This is much more technical (beyond my understanding on several occasions) but it goes into some detail about mirror slap and how to press the shutter button among other things.
http://www.poelking.de/wbuch/scharf/index_e.htm
Hope you all find them helpful.
Eric
http://www.naturephotographers.net/bh0201-1.html
http://www.naturephotographers.net/ejp0801-1.html
These two should be read back to back, as the second extends on the first.
This is much more technical (beyond my understanding on several occasions) but it goes into some detail about mirror slap and how to press the shutter button among other things.
http://www.poelking.de/wbuch/scharf/index_e.htm
Hope you all find them helpful.
Eric
