Riggindale Golden Eagles (1 Viewer)

HelenB · Sep 16, 2003

I recently put a write-up in the County by County Index, for the viewing site of the eagles at Riggindale, Haweswater, Cumbria. I have a question that someone over there might be able to answer.

I had heard that recently one of the eagles had died and was replaced naturally. I know this has happened in the past on 2 occasions by talking with the warden last time we were there. Can anyone tell me if this has happened again and was it the male or female that died? Also, have the birds bred this year?

Thanks in advance

Swift · Sep 16, 2003

The birds have not bred this year , i think it was about 3 years ago when the old male dissapeared and then as if by magic a young male arrived. Saw them this year but as yet the young male has not really knuckled down to the breeding side of things.

gordon hamlett · Sep 16, 2003

when I was last there, the warden told us that when one of the birds died, the other just started displaying very high up. Such is the eagles' eyesight, that they can be seen by birds of the south west Scotland population

Gordon

jayhunter · Sep 16, 2003

Thanks for your post Helen very illuminating, I was hoping for a weekend up in the Lakes in the near future. The Haweswater site was on the agenda, your post has brought in some interesting facts from Swift and Gordon.

Michael Frankis · Sep 16, 2003

I've heard this idea about the eagles in southern Scotland being able to see the Lakeland birds displaying, but I think it was made as a joke. It really is stretching credulity beyond breaking point, to claim that one eagle can see another at 60 or 70 miles range.

For comparitive purposes, I've been able to see a displaying Golden Eagle at 13 miles range (measured on the map to the mountain it was flying over), but that was with a 30x telescope, and it didn't look any more than a dot diving up and down in the air. I remember reading somewhere that an eagle has about 1½x the visual acuity of the human eye, and that is still way short of what I can do with a 30x telescope.

Much more relevant is that some of the pairs in southern Scotland have been rather more successful in nesting than the Lakeland birds, and immature Golden Eagles wander very widely looking for suitable territories to settle into. Wandering immature Goldies have on occasion been seen as far south as the Yorkshire dales, about 50 miles southeast of Riggindale (and something like 100 miles from where they were hatched!). It is very likely one of these that has settled into the vacant territory.

Michael

smeltmill · Sep 16, 2003

Dear all,

On 6th May at 09:00 there was a Golden Eagle sighted at the Stang Forest N Yorkshire which rather endorses Michael’s opinion.

Yours etc.
Gordon Boreham-Styffe.

Michael Frankis · Sep 16, 2003

Hi Spar,

Thanks for the extra details, very interesting - plenty there I didn't know!

I don't think it affects my point though, as to see another eagle at 60 miles would still require visual acuity vastly better than 8 times mine. From experience watching eagles with 'scope at 1½-2 miles range (numerous occasions at my 'regular' eagle year-ticking site, one of the south Scotland pairs, sorry, not revealing where!), if I try to see them with the naked eye, I can manage it at 1½ miles, but not even as a dot at two miles. Multiplied by 8, that suggests one eagle could spot another at 12 miles, but not at 16 miles. But 60 miles, no way!!

Michael

HelenB · Sep 16, 2003

Thanks for the interesting info, everyone. I am writing up a series of Lake District birding spots for my own website, and wanted to get the facts right.

Stephen Dunstan · Sep 16, 2003

In terms of wandering young eagles the wing tagged White-tailed Eagle in Lancs this spring shows just how far they can roam.

The surprising thing about that bird is that it doesn't seem to have been seen anywhere else on its was down from Northern Scotland or (presumably) the way back.

Stephen.

Michael Frankis · Sep 16, 2003

Yep, amazing the way something so huge can just vanish! Hope it didn't come to a sticky end on a gamekeeper's gibbet.

Michael

Michael Frankis · Sep 16, 2003

They all get shot or poisoned on the grouse moors of Northumberland, Durham and Yorkshire. If these b*stards didn't break the law, there's be Golden Eagles breeding down the length of the Pennines, and through the Welsh mountains, by now.

Michael

nirofo · Sep 19, 2003

The Golden Eagle has a hunting range which at certain times can be well in excess of 50 square miles, most birds will tolerate visitors to their territory and it would be quite feasible for wandering birds to see each other. Young non breeders are most likely to be wandering around looking for a vacant place in a territory, some birds will live all their lives without ever having a territory or a mate of their own. As for Eagles being able to see each other at 60 miles range, well this is stretching credulity a wee bit too far even allowing for the Scottish tipple !!!

Michael Frankis · Sep 19, 2003

Spar said:
My question still is, do the Celtic aquila traverse Hadrians wall or does this long lived raptor only nest in cumbria and if this is so why????

Spar (plenty of ideal terrain all over 50 square miles in England,that is a maxim hunting range for aquila it can cope with a lot less.)

Hi Spar,

I guess it would take ringing recoveries, or radio-tagged birds, to prove whether they do or not.

Unfortunately, when gamekeepers shoot them, they don't report the rings.

Agree there's plenty of suitable habitat for them in England. Probably sufficient to support 50, maybe 100, pairs. Maybe a lot more, if they were allowed to colonise lowland habitats.

Michael

nirofo · Sep 21, 2003

I think Michael Francis has already given the main reason why Golden Eagles are not breeding on the Pennines and other ranges in England/Wales. Sporting (sic) and other interests, not to mention the lack of isolation in these areas are the deciding factor here. Ringing recoveries from Golden Eagles are so few and far between as to be virtually meaningless, Eagles are naturally long lived birds and when they are left in peace on a good territory will live to 30-40 years old or more. The majority of birds that die before this are probably poisoned or shot, any self respecting Gamekeeper or landowner would quickly dispose of the body long before anyone else sees it, any rings will disappear along with the carcass. This also applies to any other bird of prey unlawfully killed in these areas. There are many areas (estates) in Scotland more than suitable for Golden Eagles to breed, unfortunately criminal persecution won't allow them.

Hi Spar - I'm sure you will agree that the original pair of Golden Eagles breeding in the Lake District more than likely came from Scotland.

I've been involved in the breeding and recording of Golden Eagles in Scotland for many years, most sites are just about able to maintain their own, (it takes on average about 10 years for an Eagle pair to reproduce themselves). Surplus birds if any would probably take up any vacant territories or attach themselves to any other unmated bird. Golden Eagles mate for life and will only seek a new mate if something happens to the other. I feel it's most unlikely that spare birds would migrate to other countries if suitable territories and mates are available in the U.K.

nirofo.

Michael Frankis · Sep 21, 2003

nirofo said:
Sporting (sic) and other

Hi Nirofo,

I think that's properly spelled with a 'k' at the end, 'sick'

Good analysis!

Michael

nirofo · Sep 21, 2003

Hi Spar
While the continued persecution by keepers, shepherds and others will continue to be the main problem for breeding Golden Eagles in the U.K generally, the lack of large areas of isolated (very low human interference) territory is probably the main reason for the lack of breeding attempts in England and Wales.

nirofo.

nirofo · Sep 21, 2003

Hi Spar

As I said earlier, keepers, shepherds and other sporting interests are a major deterrant to re-colonisation of England and Wales, however I still maintain that the probable main reason is the lack of large isolated areas with little human interference. Food availability is not really a problem, the Pennines in particular hold large numbers of Grouse and Hares, not to mention Sheep ( And there we have it, Grouse and Sheep !!! ).

nirofo.

Michael Frankis · Sep 22, 2003

Hi Spar,

I'd agree habitat degradation can be a limiting factor in some cases - Riggindale being one, as I've already posted my suspicions:
http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8155

But overall, direct persecution is currently far more significant. In most areas away from western Scotland, I reckon the actual Golden Eagle population is still well below the current potential carrying capacity of even degraded areas.

I'm sure that if persecution of Golden Eagles stopped, that their fear of humanity would eventually also decline, and so too their need for areas free of human presence. Where Golden Eagles are not persecuted, they do not avoid human presence to anything like the same extent.

The same effect is currently visible with the Welsh Red Kites - once persecution largely ceased, they started to colonise down from the remote and undisturbed, but poor habitat quality mountains, down into better productivity lowland areas closer to humanity. Now they are happy accepting free handouts from (and close to) man at Gigrin and several rubbish tips - something they never did 50-100 years ago through fear of man.

Michael

StarainBoy · Sep 24, 2003

Very interesting thread. The consensus appears to be that gamekeepers etc are limiting the spread of Goldies elsewhere although others have quoted human presence as the main problem. I prefer the former because GEs breed quite happily in Silicon Valley, which must be as densely populated as anywhere. And not a sheep or grouse in sight.

I had heard that the Lakes eagles were a couple of adults but the bird I saw a couple of days ago looked definitely immature (pale panels on the underside of the wings). Would anyone care to comment?

Steve G · Sep 24, 2003

I'm sure active persecution is the key to this. I know of a glen in Central Scotland where goldies seem to be actively & purposefully disturbed in late winter/early spring thus effectively preventing breeding. The birds are of too high a profile to be "permanently dealt with" by the local keepers and it is difficult to prove the "mens culpa" behind this attrition. Near to this area there is an open Scots pinewood containing nesting Buzzard, Ospreys & Red Kite. One of the local keeper-types approached me whilst I was watching the Ospreys & initiated a conversation regarding the birds. I mentioned to him that I thought he was fortunate to be living near to an area containing these birds but sadly in response he shook his head & answered "f*ck*n vermin everywhere". He also indicated with some pride that I would have little chance of seeing Hen Harriers in the area (despite apparently excellent habitat).
Until attitudes change neither Golden Eagle nor Hen Harrier populations can be expected to pick up in Scotland or in the north of England for that matter.

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