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To tell or to keep silent? (1 Viewer)

John Cantelo

John Cantelo

Well-known member
I was out a-birding at Grove Ferry (Kent UK) - a local site I know well - today when a large coach load of birders arrived. A Pec Sand having been about the said coach load were keen to see the species. Before us, hobbling about on a gamy leg, was a Ruff which was instantly pounced upon and identified with confidence as the Pec. It was duly ticked off as such by the coach load. Having sucked my teeth for all of .... what ..... 3 secs, I quietly, but firmly pointed out that it was in fact a Ruff. However, the group leader persisted in his original identification. I didn't quite demur, but implied that whilst I mightn't having been looking at the right bird and could always be wrong, 45 years of birding told me it was still a Ruff! (Just in case you're wondering I continued watching after they'd gone & had good views of it's yellow-orange legs, pale 'nose-band', etc etc. - not yer typical Pec!).
So how far should I have stuck to my guns and told 'em straight out it wasn't a Pec? If I'd said nowt they'd have gone home happy. (I will leave my old pal Dave Carr - assuming he's reading this - to tell the story of Pacific Golden Plover at Elmley!)
John
 
Never mind them, if they wanna believe it then that is up to them. One day they will realise you were right next time they point out a Ruff as a Pec to someone else like yourself.
 
I guess you have to tell don't you but it's a bit embarassing for us Brits with our rather reserved attitudes. Also had the same thing happen at grove when I saw a group watching a little egret and in raptures over it (and why not!) but I had a spotted crake just behind it - difficult to know if they are a) interested or b) will think you are a bit of a smart arse.
Incidentally the same mr cantelo (was you wasn't it?) once woke me up at sandwich where I had dozed off waiting for a spotted crake to show. The crake then immediately showed straight off and he claimed he could see spotted crake prints on my ample belly where it had walked over me mid slumber!
But how would you persuade a group to turn away from an egret or kingfisher or similar to look at an american coot????

Ivan
 
I do, of course, remember showing Ivan that Spotted Crake and now that he’s kindly reminded me of his name I can now, at long last, complete my note to ‘BB’ an Spotted Crake feeding on nostril hairs! Personally, I’d have pointed out the crake at Grove too. I’d do so on the basis that a) they’d almost certainly have wanted to see it, b) giving folks the option is always better than not and c) since, I know I’m a smart arse anyhow, a few more ‘in on the fact’ wouldn’t be here nor there! It is awkward telling folk they’re mistaken, but, usually when they see the light, they’re grateful you did so. I have some sympathy with the view that what folks want to believe is up to them, but if, in the meantime and before appreciating their error, they see more Ruff & call ‘em Pecs, then they could inconvenience a lot of birders!

So my policy is always to tell it like I see it and, switching the argument round, I’d much rather someone pointed out my errors (and, boy, do I make them at times!) than let me flounder,

John
 
One day I was sitting in the Flashes hide at Upton Warren and a couple of blokes were in there looking for Hobbies. One of them spotted a bird flying over the fields at the back. "Hobby" he said, and described to his mate where it was.

I could see the bird he was looking at. Although I haven't seen alot of Hobbies I have seen alot of Kestrels, which is what I thought it was. I wasn't going to say anything, but he turned to me and said "What do you think, mate?"

When I said I thought it was a Kestrel he was most put out, and insisted it was a Hobby. This made me feel uncomfortable, but I don't regret giving my honest opinion. Serves him right for asking me ;)
 
I'll admit to an incident at Grove earlier this year.

I had just watched a fine drake garganey swim into the reeds from the "Green" hide. A group of about 4 came in with expensive scope and bins and sat down. I was just about to leave the hide anyway and was going to tell them about the garganey. At that moment 2 drake shoveler swam in front of us. "Aren't the mallards looking wonderful" was the comment from the group. I left without saying anything - although on reflection I did feel rather guilty.
 
Interesting one this John as I was faced with a similar situation in early September when I was visiting England. I was in a packed hide at a reserve in Cheshire when a new arrival intent on finding the Wood Sandpiper which had been see ther earlier in the day pointed to three Ruff just in front of the hide and called out Wood Sandpiper. Being a "foreigner" and having no idea of hide etiquette (packed hides simply don't exist here, I'm not sure hides do) and wishing to avoid making a faux-pas, I quietly pointed to a picture of Ruff in her open field guide and suggested it was Ruff but she was having absolutely none of it and was very put out. She wanted a lifer in the form of Wood Sandpiper and got it as far as she was concerned.

Of course there is a right and wrong way to go about it and I think you handled it just right, John. Tact is the name of the game, nobody likes a smart arse and a withering put down is not the best approach. Remember we've all called out wrong birds in the past.

E
 
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Yes Spud that usually does the trick, though some people can be a little bit stubborn and nothing short of screaming at them will suffice. But I've got no patience!

Mark
 
Edward.
I think I know whre your coming from. The same reserve had a
Pectoral Sandpiper and on my second visit (I'd seen it well first time round) someone proceeded to show me the 'pec which was clearly a Ruff!! I did actually point out the error, using Logo's technique and tried to explain why. In htis case the explanation was accepted in good humour.

A number of Wood Sands turned up at this spot but were very elusive. It took me several weeks beforeI caught up with one.

I believe there was a bit of a fracca concerning the ID of an Osprey and a Buzzard which reulsted in words in the hide log.
 
Edward.
I think I know where your coming from. The same reserve had a
Pectoral Sandpiper and on my second visit (I'd seen it well first time round) someone proceeded to show me the 'pec which was clearly a Ruff!! I did actually point out the error, using Logo's technique and tried to explain why. In this case the explanation was accepted in good humour.

A number of Wood Sands turned up at this spot but were very elusive. It took me several weeks beforeI caught up with one.

I believe there was a bit of a fracca concerning the ID of an Osprey and a Buzzard which reulsted in words in the hide log.
 
I was in a hide once watching a Temminck's Stint. The proverbial loud Englishman came in with a party and proceeded to tell all and sundry that the stint was a Grey Plover.

On the same subject a good few many years ago in a hide at Dungeness a loud man was pointing out a wader as something it wasn't. A little boy about 9 piped up from the corner and said 'Anybody can see it is a Black-tailed Godwit stupid!'

Although neither were me since that day I try and keep quiet in hides. I may tentavely suggest an ID.

I'm a coward really.
 
Hi John,

Sounds tricky..... Personally speaking, I'm lack confidence in my (fledgeling) id-ing skills to the point where I usually say nothing about anything. I might venture a whispered "Do you think that's a Blue-tit" but that's about it!!

Interested in Grove Ferry.... Sounds like there could potentially be lots of interesting birds there (which is good!) but truckloads of opinionated birders (maybe not so good!).... Where is it?? I'm based in East Surrey but go down to Kent quite often..


Thanks.... Ruby
 
Ruby:

Here is a map of the Stodmarsh/Grve Ferry area http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.s...=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf . Grove Ferry is now part of the Stodmarsh NNR. Here is my entry for it in the County by County Index http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2813

It is an excellent reserve and well worth a visit. It is very good for bearded tits, also marsh harriers and wintering hen harriers. The viewing mound at Grove Ferry is excellent for waders as is the new Harrison Drove Hide.
 
I am still in the 'bumbling dullard' category when it comes to wader ID. I know the common ones but am always checking Collins.

I always ask if anything is about when I get in a hide and really appreciate birders who point out anything unusual - but I do then check the ID myself to confirm it and to help improve my skills.

I see little pointyin just accepting anothers ID of a bird and ticking it.

As for what Pete Dunne calls 'Misidentification Experts' (seems they exist in the USA too!!) that loudly ID birds incorrectly with great confidence in hides - I think they soon show themsleves up and are best left in their own little world.

I do like Logo's suggestion of 'where is the Pec in relation to the Ruff' - diplomatic.
 
simondix said:
I was in a hide once watching a Temminck's Stint. The proverbial loud Englishman came in with a party and proceeded to tell all and sundry that the stint was a Grey Plover.
Click to expand...

Like I said, we've all called out wrong birds but when you confuse Temminck's Stint and Grey Plover then I think it's time to trade in those binoculars for a set of golf clubs and just call it a day! :)

E
 
At a reserve I was working on some years ago we put out about 20 "Decoy" plastic Common Terns on a shingle Island to attract birds to breed there. This island was only some 100 yds from the hide.
A group of birders came in doing the local bird race....scanned the pool, duly ticked "Plastic Tern" and set off none the wiser.

JP
 
There's a reserve near here where a kid stuck a stuffed Night Heron (where he got it from, I know not!!) in the edge of the reeds, to play a trick on one of his friends.

Well it got seen by someone else who thought it was real and put the news out, people came to see it from as far away as Devon . . . . some birders even claimed to see it walking around, preening, etc. Eventually one of the local lads got a bit suspicious of its complete lack of activity, and went round to discover its true status
I'm wondering if there's any birders anywhere still got it on their lists :-O

In case anyone's wondering, I was away at the time, only heard about the story when I got back, so no, I didn't get taken in.

Michael
 
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